CHALLENGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[billybopp]

Looking good.   It's always a lovely thing when you get a commission - just to know that folks are willing to pay for work that you love to do!

- Bill

[chuck123wapati]

dang nice job there, ima gonna have to build mine after huntin season.

[maxdaddy]

OK, everyone's experience will be different, but I've made dozens of beeswax-lined tankards, mugs, tumblers, cups, etc.... over the past several years and never had an issue with the beeswax degrading due to the alcohol content of the liquid.

I've used them for booze on the rocks, neat booze, booze cocktails, beer, milk, iced-tea, and even wine. In my un-scientific experience, full-proof liquor is not a problem for pure beeswax. I still use a 6-year old mug quite regularly. Damage and ruin to the beeswax has only ever happened because of physical trauma, like dropping. 

Although I've never used it, I've always assumed that brewer's pitch was better than beeswax in terms of the physical strength properties (resistant to dropping). I would never have assumed that something called brewer's pitch would be less able to withstand alcohol than good-old beeswax. Is this really true? 

Very hot liquid is another matter, I once did an experiment with hot coffee in one of my beeswax cups and it was not pretty. Although my test was not scientific in any way, I did confirm my theory that 'hot' liquid can ruin the beeswax (duh). 

Be aware that some of the 'food-safe' epoxies might not be recommended for constant contact with a liquid as would be needed in a cup or canteen. For example, I experimented with a product called Envirotex Lite, which the vendor says is safe for food 'contact' (i.e. cutting board) but not for immersion (i.e. cup or bowl). I made a few shot-glasses and a tumbler with it just to get the experience of using an epoxy, but compared to beeswax it was very difficult to work with and if it were my only option I would have given up on making drinking vessels due to how hard it was to get a good finished product. 

As soon as I get my workshop back in order I'll try making a canteen/bottle. 

[Frodo]

I use a triple hydrometer  in another hobby of mine  and found out rather quickly that an acrylic hydrometer will fall apart in front of your eyes and a glass one will not 

[tsunkasapa]

10 hours ago, maxdaddy said:

Although I've never used it, I've always assumed that brewer's pitch was better than beeswax in terms of the physical strength properties (resistant to dropping). I would never have assumed that something called brewer's pitch would be less able to withstand alcohol than good-old beeswax. Is this really true? 

When I spend $150 for scotch, I do NOT want it to taste like pine.

[chuck123wapati]

11 hours ago, maxdaddy said:

OK, everyone's experience will be different, but I've made dozens of beeswax-lined tankards, mugs, tumblers, cups, etc.... over the past several years and never had an issue with the beeswax degrading due to the alcohol content of the liquid.

I've used them for booze on the rocks, neat booze, booze cocktails, beer, milk, iced-tea, and even wine. In my un-scientific experience, full-proof liquor is not a problem for pure beeswax. I still use a 6-year old mug quite regularly. Damage and ruin to the beeswax has only ever happened because of physical trauma, like dropping. 

Although I've never used it, I've always assumed that brewer's pitch was better than beeswax in terms of the physical strength properties (resistant to dropping). I would never have assumed that something called brewer's pitch would be less able to withstand alcohol than good-old beeswax. Is this really true? 

Very hot liquid is another matter, I once did an experiment with hot coffee in one of my beeswax cups and it was not pretty. Although my test was not scientific in any way, I did confirm my theory that 'hot' liquid can ruin the beeswax (duh). 

Be aware that some of the 'food-safe' epoxies might not be recommended for constant contact with a liquid as would be needed in a cup or canteen. For example, I experimented with a product called Envirotex Lite, which the vendor says is safe for food 'contact' (i.e. cutting board) but not for immersion (i.e. cup or bowl). I made a few shot-glasses and a tumbler with it just to get the experience of using an epoxy, but compared to beeswax it was very difficult to work with and if it were my only option I would have given up on making drinking vessels due to how hard it was to get a good finished product. 

As soon as I get my workshop back in order I'll try making a canteen/bottle. 

i think i will go with beeswax as i trust your knowledge and experience, i have absolutely none on this. but my hard Spirits will stay in glass with maybe a leather cover lol.  i have plenty of homemade chokecherry wine for this project lol. So how do you get the beeswax inside evenly and the remainder back out ? Heating the leather as well as the wax? If so on the leather how hot?

[battlemunky]

@chuck123wapati, I haven't made a canteen, yet, but have made several mugs with just beeswax and what I do is I put the mug in a food saver bag with beeswax and then seal it. In a pot that can accommodate it, I use a silicone oven mitt and start submerging the mug in the very hot but not boiling water until all the beeswax has liquefied and has coated the mug. Once you are sure all the leather is impregnated with beeswax, take it out of the pot and out of the bag. Ensure the shape is what you want it to be and then let it cool. Keep the beeswax in the bag and submerge it to keep it liquid and once the mug is cool enough, pour the beeswax back into the mug and slowly tilt it to cover the inside of the mug with the desired thickness of wax and pour out the rest. After the first one you figure out a lot on how to do it better on subsequent ones.

I say all that to say when I get to making the canteen, I'll approach it similarly. Not sure how to keep the belly on the canteen though, maybe just pour in the liquid wax from the start? YouTube probably has some answers too.

[chuck123wapati]

43 minutes ago, battlemunky said:

@chuck123wapati, I haven't made a canteen, yet, but have made several mugs with just beeswax and what I do is I put the mug in a food saver bag with beeswax and then seal it. In a pot that can accommodate it, I use a silicone oven mitt and start submerging the mug in the very hot but not boiling water until all the beeswax has liquefied and has coated the mug. Once you are sure all the leather is impregnated with beeswax, take it out of the pot and out of the bag. Ensure the shape is what you want it to be and then let it cool. Keep the beeswax in the bag and submerge it to keep it liquid and once the mug is cool enough, pour the beeswax back into the mug and slowly tilt it to cover the inside of the mug with the desired thickness of wax and pour out the rest. After the first one you figure out a lot on how to do it better on subsequent ones.

I say all that to say when I get to making the canteen, I'll approach it similarly. Not sure how to keep the belly on the canteen though, maybe just pour in the liquid wax from the start? YouTube probably has some answers too.

thank you!  maybe a two step process impregnate the two pieces separately form them then sew them together then seal the inside. Wonder how that would effect sewing them up besides making any gluing impossible.

[battlemunky]

On 10/8/2021 at 2:44 PM, chuck123wapati said:

thank you!  maybe a two step process impregnate the two pieces separately form them then sew them together then seal the inside. Wonder how that would effect sewing them up besides making any gluing impossible.

Yeah, gluing would be off the table but you could also just run a hairdryaer or heat gun around the stitch line and bond the beeswax from both side into one. That'll make it water (or whiskey) tight. Since you can't see the inside you could even forego the building up of the wax layer on the inside. It is more for aesthetics anyway.

[Frodo]

Busy busy busy

the order has grown from 10 to 20..

FYI,  you can make 10 bags out of 1- 10' D shoulder  

[maxdaddy]

On 10/8/2021 at 11:06 AM, chuck123wapati said:

So how do you get the beeswax inside evenly and the remainder back out ?

Chuck, the waxing technique that I've settled on is:

• Melt the wax in a double boiler setup
• Pour some liquid wax into the mug filling it up about halfway
• Tilting the cup slightly I SLOWLY rotate the mug around, letting the wax level slowly creep up the sides toward the opening.
• While rotating the mug, keep it angled over the pot that the beeswax was melted in.
• As I'm rotating the angled cup around I keep increasing the tipping of the cup so that eventually the wax is up around the opening.
• As the wax is depositing itself at the opening of the cup I begin to let it pour back out into the pot while continually rotating.
• Repeat as needed until the desired thickness is achieved 

The mug shown here probably had three sets of these steps performed about five minutes apart. I like to have a nice thick coating of the wax and each successive operation binds new wax to the the existing wax adding thickness. That's 10 oz skirting leather.

 

5 hours ago, Frodo said:

the order has grown from 10 to 20

That's awesome! 

Edited October 11, 2021 by maxdaddy

[Frodo]

10 hours ago, maxdaddy said:

Chuck, the waxing technique that I've settled on is:

• Melt the wax in a double boiler setup
• Pour some liquid wax into the mug filling it up about halfway
• Tilting the cup slightly I SLOWLY rotate the mug around, letting the wax level slowly creep up the sides toward the opening.
• While rotating the mug, keep it angled over the pot that the beeswax was melted in.
• As I'm rotating the angled cup around I keep increasing the tipping of the cup so that eventually the wax is up around the opening.
• As the wax is depositing itself at the opening of the cup I begin to let it pour back out into the pot while continually rotating.
• Repeat as needed until the desired thickness is achieved 

The mug shown here probably had three sets of these steps performed about five minutes apart. I like to have a nice thick coating of the wax and each successive operation binds new wax to the the existing wax adding thickness. That's 10 oz skirting leather.

 

That's awesome! 

Man, don't you just love the smell of beeswax?   YUMMY

[Frodo]

before you say anything.  Cause I know you guys do not MISS anything.  I am well aware that I did not stamp the edge of the dragon scales

this is where it will be formed and the edge will not be seen...Thats my story and I am sticking to it. 

 

[fredk]

I do believe you are really enjoying all this creativity. I hope you get a decent price for these bottles.

Now, I can see where the dragon scales are not tidy or are mis-aligned. But, you know what? I think it is all the better for that

(I must get a dragon scale stamp some time)

However. in this photo I did notice that you had a couple of gaps in your stitching holes lines - in the stack on the right. I hope you've noticed it yourself. Those gaps just might affect the sealing

18 hours ago, Frodo said:

 

edited to add;

PS; what thickness of leather are you using and what are you packing into the bottle to make it shape?

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by fredk

[Frodo]

9oz leather,  i am packing corn, it falls out when you are done.

yes, i have a gap or 2.  those pieces  are not finished going through the line.   i catch the bs on the next step.  every hole gets an awl stuck in it

then it will be glued,  then sanded and edged   then sewn whew...  i gotta get busy !!!

[fredk]

Thanks friend.

I'm rather caught up catching up with some resin casting at the mo, but I'll get on this asap

[Frodo]

 

this is still wet and full of corn.   

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Frodo

[fredk]

Several months later. . . . 

Neddy Seagoon* returns to the fray . . . . . 

Bluebottle* has come up with an idea . . . .  whack!  . . . . . . . . . .. . thats the end of that and Bluebottle* is now deaded

However, I've not forgotten this. It was put on the 'back burner' as a saying here goes.  I had it written down on a bit of paper (Bluebottle & Eccles)*

This morning I ordered 2kg, about 5 pounds, of pop-corn kernels. Some might be used in making a bottle/flask and some might be made into grits and some made into popped corn

It might not take 3 months for me to get to the next stage. 

On the other hand. . . . . .

 

 

is a glove

 

* I'll let you google up those names

 

[fredk]

Resurrecting a dead thread; I've not really forgotten this, but nor have I attempted a flask

I want to ask about using corn for packing it out - does the leather stretch enuf that there are no wee bumps caused by the corn kernels ? Is the stretched leather smooth at the finish?

[chuck123wapati]

15 hours ago, fredk said:

Resurrecting a dead thread; I've not really forgotten this, but nor have I attempted a flask

I want to ask about using corn for packing it out - does the leather stretch enuf that there are no wee bumps caused by the corn kernels ? Is the stretched leather smooth at the finish?

I haven't tried corn, but it reminded me of an old story I read where an old cowboy bought a pair of boots that were too tight. So, he packed them with dry corn, filled them with water, and the following day the corn expanded and they were stretched way too big seems ripped and unusable.

 I used bbs and some plastic beads I recovered out of a kid's store-bought bean bag for the one below I made but it didn't take overnight to form them so corn would work IMO without causing bumps depending on leather thickness very thin leather might show bumps, A guy might try rice, air soft pellets, or any source of small plastic or glass beads or dried grain. I would avoid sand unless you feel you can clean it out well enough.

 

Just now, chuck123wapati said:

I haven't tried corn, but it reminded me of an old story I read where an old cowboy bought a pair of boots that were too tight. So, he packed them with dry corn, filled them with water, and the following day the corn expanded and they were stretched way too big seems ripped and unusable.

 I used bbs and some plastic beads I recovered out of a kid's store-bought bean bag for the one below I made but it didn't take overnight to form them so corn would work IMO without causing bumps depending on leather thickness very thin leather might show bumps, A guy might try rice, air soft pellets, or any source of small plastic or glass beads or dried grain. I would avoid sand unless you feel you can clean it out well enough.

 

oh and pack it hard in from the bottom up don't fill it then try and pack it won't stretch the leather . 

[fredk]

Thanks, and a good tip there

[AEBL]

Perhaps a silly question - but how would you clean a container like that? Just water? Seems like even hot water would be iffy ...