You can't afford starting with leathercraft?

[Danne]

First, I don't consider myself a professional leathercrafter, maybe intermediate.

But when I started this craft, I blamed my tools, stitching wasn't good because of my stitching irons, I needed a better skiving knife. 

I took some old tools and skived a piece of leather, and I cut glued, stitched, creased and burnished the edge. (The stitching is far from perfect, but it's not because of the tools, I haven't stitched in a while, so usually when I start a new project I do some practice runs on some scrap pieces)

How did I prepare the tools? 

I used 400/1000/2500 grit wet and dry sandpaper and a file and a small drill bit. 

A file to reshape the "creaser" so I got a sharper edge, and some sand paper to smooth it out.

A small drill bit under sand paper to sharpen the edge beveler, and stropped it on the edge of some thicker leather.

Sharpened the knife with wet and dry on a granite plate (A small piece of glass or anything else that is flat would work fine.

 

What would you need more? some cheap pva glue (you already have some maybe?) a small cutting mat, two needles and some thread, a lighter to heat the creaser, a piece of cloth to burnish the edge with water. A hammer/mallet. 

Are there benefits with some of the really expensive tools? Yes but not much as a beginner. I would say as a beginner don't buy the most expensive tools. Why? Do you know if you would prefer Japanese or European style stitching irons? Which side of a skiving knife do you prefer to skive with, bevel up or down? Would I recommend buying these super cheap tools I show here if you can afford to spend a little bit more? No, I would buy tools from leathercrafttools.com and you will get edge beveler, skiving knife with better edge retention, and tbh I still use both my skiving knives and edge beveler of the same brand as leathercrafttools sell, and i'm happy with them and see no reason to upgrade them, even though I have upgraded all the other tools I use. 

The approximate cost of the tools in this photo is around 

Skiving Knife: 2usd

Adjustable creaser: 2-3usd

Edge beveler: 2-3usd (With groover creaser edge beveler, different tips you can replace)

wing divider: 4usd

Stitching irons: 2-3usd

Hammer: (From local hardware store) 10euro.

But leather is expensive? Yes, but you can often buy good quality leather as off cuts or belly leather, and you don't have to start with making large bags. You can make key rings, watch straps, card holders, just small practice pieces to learn to stitch and finish edges and skive and such.

[tsunkasapa]

39 minutes ago, Danne said:

a lighter to heat the creaser,

I'm curious why you would heat the creaser. I just damp the leather and run the creaser. I get fantastic results with no heat at all.

[Danne]

5 minutes ago, tsunkasapa said:

I'm curious why you would heat the creaser. I just damp the leather and run the creaser. I get fantastic results with no heat at all.

I never use manual creasers, and are used to heat with my electric creaser. But for veg tan I can see how it can be a good solution.

[Klara]

I've read that you need to heat the creaser for chrome tanned leather, and JH Leather works with bridle leather and a hot creaser as well. I don't know because mine has only just arrived  - I didn't feel the need for one at the beginning. 

Sadly, the above prices are based on fond memory and no longer true. The cheapest skiving knife I find on leathercrafttools.com is $ 5, plastic handle with replaceable blade (looks like it might last about two cuts).  The one shown in the picture is available from Aliexpress, but at more than $ 2. The pictured wing divider costs $ 20 in Japan...

Of course, you don't absolutely need a wing divider if you have a 5 in one groover/edge beveller tool. And one might not even need edge bevelers if one rolls the edges... 

Awls are missing as well in the above list - I need 4: small, medium, large, curved. And round, but I had that already...

The tools one needs depend on the work one wants to do - I'm making dog collars, so I need hole punches and hardware. I also prefer knives with a curved blade, means € 20 for the cheapest head knife. And so on...

It would be nice, though, if there was a beginner-friendly list of which tools and supplies are needed for which type of work. I may have spent a bit too much on (cheap) tools, but I'm using all of it, I believe. However, I've also bought quite big amounts of leather, thread, edge paint, etc. which I find less useful than I thought...

Edited September 23, 2021 by Klara
added info

[Squid61]

I have learned through many years of getting into one hobby or another that the most expensive route is through cheap tools.  I can't even count the cheap tools I've had to replace, tossing the cheap stuff into the trash.  I also have spent far too much money buying those beginner/starter tool sets for various hobbies and crafts  only to discover over half either are never needed or don't work.  My advice to beginners of leather or any other craft is to talk to an expert or at least experienced practitioner and buy a decent quality selection of individual tools based on sound advice.  Yes the cost may be higher at first but much lower in the end.

[Danne]

7 hours ago, Klara said:

I've read that you need to heat the creaser for chrome tanned leather, and JH Leather works with bridle leather and a hot creaser as well. I don't know because mine has only just arrived  - I didn't feel the need for one at the beginning. 

Sadly, the above prices are based on fond memory and no longer true. The cheapest skiving knife I find on leathercrafttools.com is $ 5, plastic handle with replaceable blade (looks like it might last about two cuts).  The one shown in the picture is available from Aliexpress, but at more than $ 2. The pictured wing divider costs $ 20 in Japan...

Of course, you don't absolutely need a wing divider if you have a 5 in one groover/edge beveller tool. And one might not even need edge bevelers if one rolls the edges... 

Awls are missing as well in the above list - I need 4: small, medium, large, curved. And round, but I had that already...

The tools one needs depend on the work one wants to do - I'm making dog collars, so I need hole punches and hardware. I also prefer knives with a curved blade, means € 20 for the cheapest head knife. And so on...

It would be nice, though, if there was a beginner-friendly list of which tools and supplies are needed for which type of work. I may have spent a bit too much on (cheap) tools, but I'm using all of it, I believe. However, I've also bought quite big amounts of leather, thread, edge paint, etc. which I find less useful than I thought...

The prices of these tools are from Aliexpress. And I might have missed a usd on the skiving knife. Yes maybe I bought that wing divider somewhere else, it was a long time ago.

I don't see it as the best option to buy these tools, I also don't see it as a good option to start with the most expensive tools. As an example if I would have bought Ksblade when I started this craft I would maybe have bought the Japanese style in 8spi, and the largest spi I use now is 9spi and European style, so it would have been a waste of money.

The reason I did this post was because some people can't afford to buy medium quality tools from for example leathercrafttools.com and then they think they can't start crafting leather. 

[Danne]

1 hour ago, Squid61 said:

I have learned through many years of getting into one hobby or another that the most expensive route is through cheap tools.  I can't even count the cheap tools I've had to replace, tossing the cheap stuff into the trash.  I also have spent far too much money buying those beginner/starter tool sets for various hobbies and crafts  only to discover over half either are never needed or don't work.  My advice to beginners of leather or any other craft is to talk to an expert or at least experienced practitioner and buy a decent quality selection of individual tools based on sound advice.  Yes the cost may be higher at first but much lower in the end.

But not everyone have the money to spend on decent quality tools, but still want to try this hobby. It's certainly possible to learn and make nice things with super cheap tools, and then maybe sell a few items and slowly upgrade tools. But buying kits is usually not a good idea, usually a lot of tools you might not need. Better to buy the tools you need for what you are making. 

When I started this craft I could have made a huge mistake buying expensive tools and material. But I agree with buying decent quality, if you can afford it, it's a better choice. I still use a lot of the tools I bought from Japanese brands like Seiwa, Kyoshin Elle and such. The main reason I might update my skiving knives to Okada,  Palosanto awls, is mainly because of nice wood and the feeling of the tools. It's not that I need that Palosanto awl, I buy Japanese budget awls and reshape them and they do they work perfectly.

Another example when it comes to material. In the beginning I used Ritza25 thread, I was thinking about buying all colors in full spools, it would have been a mistake because I don't like that thread at all anymore. I prefer Meisi linen and Meisi Xiange twist, and in thinner versions than Ritza.

 

 

[Klara]

2 hours ago, Squid61 said:

I have learned through many years of getting into one hobby or another that the most expensive route is through cheap tools.  I can't even count the cheap tools I've had to replace, tossing the cheap stuff into the trash.  ...

Not my experience. Because it's rarely the tool, which is a lesson taught by a farrier some 20 years ago. When we admired his work, complained our nails always bent wrong, joked that his pro hammer must make the difference he took each of our hammers and continued to work like before. More recently I've earned my money spinning wool, and while there are unuseable handspindles and wheels around, I still have and use and cherish (it's no longer being produced) the very first spinning wheel I bought, which was the cheapest on the market (though still from a reputable company).

Getting back to leather work: I am still using most of the € 20 kit off Amazon: Diamond stitching chisels - do the job (and they alone are worth the money). The groover works after honing, the bevelers are so so, no doubt because I haven't put enough work in. Nothing wrong with the burnisher either, I mostly use it with nylon cloth around it, so who cares about wood quality or finish.

In my local leather shop the sales lady let me try a Barry King awl to compare with a Seiwa. Yes, the difference is huge, the Barry King glides through the leather much more easily. But the price difference is huge as well, easily a few hours work worth, so I can spend some time honing a "cheap" awl blade. (If you want to call Osborne and Vergez Blanchard cheap... They are far under € 10, in any case.)

@Danne If your post is meant as a counter argument to the tool chapter in Nigel Armitage's book, then I agree completely. It's ridiculous to expect a beginner to spend several hundred dollars/pounds/euros on tools before he's discovered whether he even likes leatherwork. But it's not as easy/cheap as you make it out to be. Firstly, you can only buy from Aliexpress if you know exactly what you need as the descriptions are mostly useless. Secondly you need to be prepared to wait - the very cheap stuff doesn't have 10-day delivery. Most beginners are keen to start NOW.

Finally, Armitage does have a point: With cheap tools you are never quite sure whether the problem is you (in most cases) or the tool (which does happen).

In any case, I don't regret at all that after doing a first project with the kit from Amazon (and a very old awl I had lying around from my grandmother, and some sewing needles I had ground the point off) I made a trip to the nearest leather shop to buy decent tools there. Still bottom of the line in most cases, but I trust the shop not to sell any crap.

 

[Squid61]

Klara, I never blame my tools for shoddy workmanship.  I do blame my tools when cutting instruments will not take or hold an edge (yes I know how to sharpen, been doing it for over 60 years) or gauging instruments will not hold a setting or the tool metal is so cheap it bends.  No matter, opinions are what these forums are for.

[Danne]

9 minutes ago, Klara said:

Not my experience. Because it's rarely the tool, which is a lesson taught by a farrier some 20 years ago. When we admired his work, complained our nails always bent wrong, joked that his pro hammer must make the difference he took each of our hammers and continued to work like before. More recently I've earned my money spinning wool, and while there are unuseable handspindles and wheels around, I still have and use and cherish (it's no longer being produced) the very first spinning wheel I bought, which was the cheapest on the market (though still from a reputable company).

Getting back to leather work: I am still using most of the € 20 kit off Amazon: Diamond stitching chisels - do the job (and they alone are worth the money). The groover works after honing, the bevelers are so so, no doubt because I haven't put enough work in. Nothing wrong with the burnisher either, I mostly use it with nylon cloth around it, so who cares about wood quality or finish.

In my local leather shop the sales lady let me try a Barry King awl to compare with a Seiwa. Yes, the difference is huge, the Barry King glides through the leather much more easily. But the price difference is huge as well, easily a few hours work worth, so I can spend some time honing a "cheap" awl blade. (If you want to call Osborne and Vergez Blanchard cheap... They are far under € 10, in any case.)

@Danne If your post is meant as a counter argument to the tool chapter in Nigel Armitage's book, then I agree completely. It's ridiculous to expect a beginner to spend several hundred dollars/pounds/euros on tools before he's discovered whether he even likes leatherwork. But it's not as easy/cheap as you make it out to be. Firstly, you can only buy from Aliexpress if you know exactly what you need as the descriptions are mostly useless. Secondly you need to be prepared to wait - the very cheap stuff doesn't have 10-day delivery. Most beginners are keen to start NOW.

Finally, Armitage does have a point: With cheap tools you are never quite sure whether the problem is you (in most cases) or the tool (which does happen).

In any case, I don't regret at all that after doing a first project with the kit from Amazon (and a very old awl I had lying around from my grandmother, and some sewing needles I had ground the point off) I made a trip to the nearest leather shop to buy decent tools there. Still bottom of the line in most cases, but I trust the shop not to sell any crap.

 

I see it like this, if someone can't make a decent quality leather product with cheap tools, then the problem isn't the tool it's the crafter. When someone can make a decent product with cheap tools that person can certainly benefit from more expensive tools. (Higher quality steel and better shaped tools and such)

Regarding awls, I prefer Seiwa and Kyoshin Elle over Blanchard, and the reason is the blade is so wide on the smallest Blanchard so it takes so much time to reshape it. Sure it might be better steeel in Blanchard I have no idea, but I rarely sharpen my cheaper Japanese awls.

The main reason for this post wasn't to recommend people to buy the absolute cheapest tools they can find. When someone have asked me for recommendations for tools for making watch straps as an example. And they can spend a little bit more, I often recommend tools from leathercrafttools. But we have to keep in mind, 100euro can be a small amount of money for someone, it can be a lot of money for someone else. And for someone who have very limited amounts of money to spend but still want to try this craft, and are willing to wait a little bit for shipping, it's still possible to try this hobby and make nice things on a low budget.

 

You may have seen my post about my tool board and jigs I made. I could afford buying Festool machines, and a nice table saw and nice miter saw station. But I haven't worked with fine woodworking before. So I decided to buy medium quality circle saw and a plunge router. Even if I would keep making things in wood, I could still have a use for these tools if I upgrade. But buying those super expensive tools would have been a very bad move, because I don't really know what type of tools I would prefer. As an example, a plunge router wasn't the best choice, a palm router with a plunge attachment would have been better. Now it wasn't a big deal because I didn't pay for a "premium machine."

Edited September 23, 2021 by Danne