You can't afford starting with leathercraft?

[Spyros]

I'm not gonna comment on economic wars etc, but:

from a pricing perspective, I can see there is definitely a fixation in the US market for US made "artisan" goods, I can see a bunch of people with actual measurable sales on etsy etc selling pretty basic and ridiculously overpriced items, and people actually paying it and being very happy leaving positive comments.  And I'm not gonna lie, if I was in the US I would exploit the crap out of them.

[Cumberland Highpower]

2 minutes ago, Spyros said:

The only reason I was asking is if you paid peanuts, then of course they were not gonna be good or last very long.    I mean we sometimes blame the products without looking at what we actually paid.

I understand your point.   I would say "cheap" American made mechanics tools would have been along the lines of some Craftsman, Bon-Econ, Stanley, New Brititian, Fleet,  etc back in the day.  If you go to a flea market and purchase some USA made generic sockets and wrenches, Even without names, you'd find they are as strong or stronger than the best of Chinese tools made today. 

[Spyros]

57 minutes ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

I understand your point.   I would say "cheap" American made mechanics tools would have been along the lines of some Craftsman, Bon-Econ, Stanley, New Brititian, Fleet,  etc back in the day.  If you go to a flea market and purchase some USA made generic sockets and wrenches, Even without names, you'd find they are as strong or stronger than the best of Chinese tools made today. 

I obviously did not grow up in the US so I don't actually know, but I do get the feeling from your recounts (and from other people as well), that US made products back then were moderately priced and generally affordable for the trade person or the hobbyist.   But if you look around now, there are still a bunch of US made products, and a lot of them if not most of them are laughably overpriced for what they are.  I mean sure all the problems you guys are describing with foreign competition and your national industrial and external policies overtime, these are all valid concerns.   But there is also a point where if someone overseas makes something and sells it for 10% your price and undercuts your sales, it's not necessarily because his cost is that much lower, but mainly because your price was like 50% higher (or more) than it needed to be in the first place.  It really feels like a lot of US businesses are going for a snatch, or an exploitation of the "US made" nostalgia, rather than a long term viable commercial strategy.  Industrial manufacturing globally is a 3-5% margin business, it's just how it is, I know because that's my morning job.  And it's the same for Ford as it is for a Swiss or a Chinese manufacturer.  So if your pricing is going for 30 or 40% profit then you're simply not gonna last very long in manufacturing.

(Leatherworking is different than industrial manufacturing of course.  By definition, even if you're using sewing machines, the cost in leatherworking is mostly labour.  So leatherworking is by definition low volume artisan items and should be priced accordingly for a high margin, and I applaud the people who do so).

Edited October 10, 2021 by Spyros

[Handstitched]

When I read the OP, I was of the understanding that this thread was about the affordability of the craft, for the newbies, beginners , budget conscious , keeping costs down  etc.  'Making do' with what we already have in our sheds, adapting tools for use with leather, the very basic tools and materials  to get started , sharing ideas ,  just as I have,  .....and so on.....

  I  have completely &  totally missed the point of this thread . 

HS

[jcuk]

This might be true at first you get the tools you need to get you started on the your early projects but then you will improve and may want to step out of your comfort zone and make more complex things which may require a different tools to make those new things. When i finished my first piece of training they sent me away with all the tools i needed to make a bridle which i did, but had no splitting machine ie pull through splitter and Plough Gauge i knew i would need these to make things easier and faster. And still have all those tools i started with many moons ago all were no name tools still work as good as they did then maybe even better or maybe the user got improved along the way. Yes i have tools made by Dixons, Blanchard, Barnsley, Adams Osborne which i gathered along the way,  one tool i have is over 100 years old work's like a dream, much prefer older tools. Thats not to say all newly made tools are rubbish but give me a set of Blanchard, Barnsley prick irons over anything from the far east. And yes i did say Blanchard even though now we are out of the EU still would rather support economies closer to home. And yes i have brought things from the far east when i could not source them closer to home unfortunately.

Hope this helps

JCUK  

[Spyros]

I still find leatherworking very cheap compared to other crafts and hobbies that people typically get into, things like woodworking, metalworking, watches, photography, or anything with a motor, or anything that floats, or even cycling.   Or gambling :D
Leatherworking gets expensive when you start buying sewing machines and serious clicker presses, but by that point you almost certainly have a business and you're earning it back.

Seriously have you seen what an entirely unplugged set of decent woodworking hand tools costs?  Before you even buy a single power tool.  

Edited October 11, 2021 by Spyros

[Klara]

I haven't. I don't even know what should be in this set...

But now that you mention it: My recorders (the wind instrument) certainly cost more than all my leather stuff (tools and consumables) together. And I just have the basic SATB set in "cheap" woods...

I suspect that all serious amateurs (in the sense of "doing it out of love") sooner or later spend quite a bit of money on their hobby. And then I see a professional from a poor country, with no money to spend, who creates works of art with next to nothing, and I get an inferiority complex. (Is it a complex if one is inferior? )

[Danne]

On 10/11/2021 at 4:54 PM, Spyros said:

I still find leatherworking very cheap compared to other crafts and hobbies that people typically get into, things like woodworking, metalworking, watches, photography, or anything with a motor, or anything that floats, or even cycling.   Or gambling :D
Leatherworking gets expensive when you start buying sewing machines and serious clicker presses, but by that point you almost certainly have a business and you're earning it back.

Seriously have you seen what an entirely unplugged set of decent woodworking hand tools costs?  Before you even buy a single power tool.  

Yes, I agree with you. But even though it might be cheap to spend let's say a 2-300euro to start crafting with some decent tools. That will be A LOT of money for someone who barely have money to buy food. And I'm certain there are people visiting this forum who which they could start crafting, but then they see expensive pricking irons, electric creasers, and they can't afford to buy these tools. So they look at budget Japanese tools, but still too expensive, and they see it as impossible to start crafting. But with very little money most people can start making small things like watch straps, and practice stitching/edge finishing/creasing on scrap leather. And it's certainly possible to make really nice things with those really cheap tools. And I wouldn't recommend people to start with these tools I posted if they can afford to spend 100-200euro. My whole point was that most people can start crafting, and once they sell a couple of straps they can buy nicer leather and invest in some better tools with the profit. 

 

[Constabulary]

you can also buy quite cheap tool sets and I doubt this one is of lesser quality than what Tandy sells. But as always you never know before you tried it.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/373492308811

https://www.ebay.de/itm/313620260332

Edited October 13, 2021 by Constabulary

[Spyros]

37 minutes ago, Danne said:

Yes, I agree with you. But even though it might be cheap to spend let's say a 2-300euro to start crafting with some decent tools. That will be A LOT of money for someone who barely have money to buy food. And I'm certain there are people visiting this forum who which they could start crafting, but then they see expensive pricking irons, electric creasers, and they can't afford to buy these tools. So they look at budget Japanese tools, but still too expensive, and they see it as impossible to start crafting. But with very little money most people can start making small things like watch straps, and practice stitching/edge finishing/creasing on scrap leather. And it's certainly possible to make really nice things with those really cheap tools. And I wouldn't recommend people to start with these tools I posted if they can afford to spend 100-200euro. My whole point was that most people can start crafting, and once they sell a couple of straps they can buy nicer leather and invest in some better tools with the profit. 

 

Well, the creaser is your personal decision (and mine by the way) but it's very far from essential, most people don't ever crease anything.  And although I have a good budget for tools I never felt any need or desire for any leathercraft-specific knife, I just use box cutters and scissors from the hardware store.  Same for glue, because leatherworking glue is basically watered-down contact adhesive, of which you can buy a small bucket for $20 pretty much anywhere and then dilute it to 2 buckets to last you months.  A leatherworking maul, unless you get into carving/tooling doesn't really have a reason of existence compared to a hardware store $10 mallet, a stitching pony is basically two pieces of wood with a door hinge and a wing nut, and so on and so forth

But I do disagree with your 100-200 euro tool list because there is the issue of leatherworking punches.  You just need them from the get go, I can't think of anything else that will do, once you get to strap holes and hardware?  The cheap ones break and the decent ones get pretty expensive pretty quickly because you do need different shapes and sizes.  And then you need specific setters for every piece of hardware you choose to use (if you want to set it properly).  A couple of irons, an awl, a cutting surface, a basic strap cutter, bevellers...  I think the minimum starter budget is probably closer to $500.