hide breaking with chemistry?

[HughMungis]

So I'm about to start working my first bison hide (i've done deer in the past) to turn it in to either a really big soft blanket, or something like a robe. I've done deer in the past and breaking those hides was a real chore, so I got to thinking about whether there's a way to do this chemically.

I got to reading this chemistry paper on the hide-tanning process which was really interesting but 99% of it went over my head, but it got me thinking.

There are meat tenderizers in grocery stores (bromelain powder) and even some naturally occuring enzymes that break down connective tissue a bit like pineapple juice and I'm wondering if that would help any.

My question is: Is there a non-harmful bath or enzyme that I can put on my hide that will help break it while I sleep so I don't have as much to break when I wake up?

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, HughMungis said:

So I'm about to start working my first bison hide (i've done deer in the past) to turn it in to either a really big soft blanket, or something like a robe. I've done deer in the past and breaking those hides was a real chore, so I got to thinking about whether there's a way to do this chemically.

I got to reading this chemistry paper on the hide-tanning process which was really interesting but 99% of it went over my head, but it got me thinking.

There are meat tenderizers in grocery stores (bromelain powder) and even some naturally occuring enzymes that break down connective tissue a bit like pineapple juice and I'm wondering if that would help any.

My question is: Is there a non-harmful bath or enzyme that I can put on my hide that will help break it while I sleep so I don't have as much to break when I wake up?

if there was i think it would be on shelves everywhere and on every hide tanning blog ever written. sorry no majic solution i have ever heard of turn on some good tunes open a beer and get to work i have found a lot of needless work goes into the process while the hide is still to wet for the breaking. If you do find one though let me know i have three elk hides and two deer in the salt right now.

[tsunkasapa]

If there was an easy way, everyone would be doing it. And hides/leather would be much cheaper.

[HughMungis]

On 11/3/2021 at 3:54 PM, chuck123wapati said:

if there was i think it would be on shelves everywhere and on every hide tanning blog ever written. sorry no majic solution i have ever heard of turn on some good tunes open a beer and get to work i have found a lot of needless work goes into the process while the hide is still to wet for the breaking. If you do find one though let me know i have three elk hides and two deer in the salt right now.

I got to thinking about this and figured I'd ask some people with more of a technical background. I called up a few universities and here are the ones that couldn't give me an answer:

University of Kansas
Wyoming University
South Dakota State University
University of Nebraska
Cornell
Stanford
Johns Hopkins
MIT

haha I literally called all of their departments of biology with this question and none of them had an answer. I'll update the list as I keep trying different states. I'm starting to think that nobody knows because nobody's actually tried different methods of doing it.

I think what I'm going to do is cut this spare deer hide I have in to strips and test out different mixtures to see what happens.

Edited November 5, 2021 by HughMungis

[HughMungis]

On 11/3/2021 at 3:54 PM, chuck123wapati said:

If you do find one though let me know i have three elk hides and two deer in the salt right now.

Advanced Tanning Solutions sells something called "Enzymol" that works a little too well. It's not listed anywhere on their website but if you email or call them they'll help you out.

I let one of my bison hides soak in a barrel of it for a bit too long and I was accidentally ripping this gigantic grain leather with my bare hands. If you order some, the directions they send with shouldn't be thrown away lol.

[Bert03241]

I would imagine any testing you do would have to take years for any significant results. You might find something that works , only to find a year ot 2 or 3 later it all falls apart.Good luck tho let us know what you find.

[fredk]

Have you asked any Native Americans? I read these days a lot of tribes are trying to keep up and get old traditional crafts going. Curing hides might be within their remit and the instructors might have some ideas, even if they don't use modern methods but traditional ones they'd need to know which modern methods or chemicals not to use

[Sheilajeanne]

Fredk, I have a book that gives in detail the traditional Native American way of tanning deer hides. And believe me, it's a LOT of work!! Given the much bigger size and thickness of a bison hide, I'm guessing it would be twice as much work.

Doesn't hurt to ask, though. Some Native Americans have adopted more modern methods of doing things - the Tribal Spirit shop that I buy deer and moose hides from gets their hides from native hunters, and ships them to a tannery in Alberta. And I've heard most native craftspeople now use artificial sinew for sewing.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Sheilajeanne

[chuck123wapati]

13 hours ago, fredk said:

Have you asked any Native Americans? I read these days a lot of tribes are trying to keep up and get old traditional crafts going. Curing hides might be within their remit and the instructors might have some ideas, even if they don't use modern methods but traditional ones they'd need to know which modern methods or chemicals not to use

Everything you need to know on brain tanning. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Deerskins-into-Buckskins-Brains-Soap/dp/0965867242

[blue duck]

@HughMungis I don't know if you are still calling folks, but you might try University of Alaska Fairbanks. They seem to have a very active native cultural department. They do quite a few workshops for the community on different historical subjects. Perhaps they could help you out or point you in the right direction.