Synthetic Pockets in Leather Wallets

[Piko]

Hi,

I am new to leather working (2 weeks) and to this forum. I am working on a wallet and have a lot of questions but, mainly, one regarding the pockets for the cards. Now I am using a ‘T’ shape design with 2/3 oz leather. But even leather that thin (and skived) gets pretty bulky in the middle where the vertical  ‘I’ part of the’T’ is. 
As workaround, I noticed some companies employ a synthetic fabric (possibly Nylon) that is somehow bond to a strip of leather and perhaps fused to the main frame of the wallet. I am not talking about a leather pocket, lined with fabric: I am talking about a pocket made entirely of this fabric and just the top part of the pocket (the one exposed to view) is leather. This seems to add longevity as well, since Nylon (or whatever they use) is very resilient to friction and tugging.

Anyhow. I see many of you have been working leather for years, you surely have come across this kind of design for a card pocket. Would you be able (and willing) to explain it to me? Is it even doable at home or it requires industrial machines? I do everything by hand aside from the cutting that is done by laser.

I thank you in advance.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Piko

[chuck123wapati]

yes you can use fabric of any type you want it is glued at the edges and sewn the same as a leather pocket would be. a lot of folks use a very thin leather inside however.

 i think in the picture you are showing the two inner pockets are sewn together at the bottom before assembly. the outer/top pocket is deep for money. it appears also they are cut into a vee shape which is hidden below the top edge of each pocket to help reduce bulk.

Hope this helps, you can do it all at home, search this forum for hand stitching its not a hard thing to learn. Then show us your cool project. 

[Matt S]

You're definitely not the first to come across this issue, and I don't think that there is an ideal solution. It's a dilemma that most wallet makers face.

FWIW I used to think that putting leather tabs on nylon pockets (nearly universal in the commercial SLG world) was a cheap dodge. I stuck my heels in and went with cut edge full-leather pockets as a "no shortcuts" thing. I had to get leather split specially to make them out of what I wanted to make them out of. Yet still the bulk, once you get past about 3-4 stacked pockets, is a problem. Some people like the bulk. I once made a custom bifold entirely out of 2mm (5oz) leather, with brass rivets, for someone who wanted the look and feel. That's a valid aesthetic or approach for those who like it. Most of my customers don't.

I've found that the slimmest approach to full-leather pockets is with the tightest grain leather you can get, as thin as you dare. I've gone as thin as 0.5mm (about 1.5oz) but wouldn't recommend it unless you're super selective about your leather, and that gets expensive. Some nice veg-tanned goat, cut near the spine, for instance. The other thing is the top edge receives a lot of wear and tear, so generally the thinner it is the floppier and more prone to tearing it gets. One way to avoid this is to use a thin leather (say 0.7mm/2oz) and fold over the top edge. If you glue it well you probably don't have to stitch the foldover. (Note that this is pretty similar to how a lot of commercial manufacturers do their pockets tops).

Another approach (which I prefer) is to use a thicker leather (say like your 2-3oz) and skive the hidden parts of the pocket to a feather edge. It needs some skill with the skiving knife but really reduces the apparent bulk of multiple stacked pockets and gives you a sturdy, chunky pocket top. It also gives you some flexibility with spongier-than-ideal bits of leather.

Having considered it for several years (and tried several approaches) I now lean towards a folded-top pocket from thin leather, with a full nylon lining. Partially due to a lack of bulk, partially due to speed of manufacture, but also partially because I can then make wallets out of just about any leather I choose. I'll probably be replacing my cut-edge wallet dies after Christmas.

As an aside, having had full-leather-pocket wallets in use for several years now I've found that almost any leather is "grabbier" than almost any synthetic fabric I've tried. It also tends to rub silver lettering off cards (which bugs some people) and stains things like business or loyalty stamp cards.

Can these approaches be done with hand-tool techniques? Definitely, and some (like the skiving I mention above) pretty much require it. An appropriate skiving or sewing machine speeds things up, especially on batch work, but is not necessary.

I'd be very interested in hearing some of the larger-quantity manufacturers' takes on wallet pockets, such as @RockyAussie

Here's a video of one of the higher-end British SLG companies (Ettinger) making a billfold. I believe that the leather is Sedgwick bridle shoulder, quite a firm and dense-grained leather, and yet they do their pocket tops with folded-over 0.7mm (2oz). While they use several machines to speed up the work almost everything they do could be done by hand.

 

[Piko]

Thank you so much for your answers,

i have been buying 2/3 oz veg tan and skiving it down: ai like the results myself but I know a lit of people prefer thinner wallets. 
 

i cannot, for the live if me, find any thinner leather! 2 oz would be great but everywhere I look they are all 2/3 oz at least. If si use 2/3 oz for the top of the pockets and gold it, wouldn’t that make the wallet even thicker since I just doubled the leather and added fabric in the middle? Also, wouldn’t the leather eventually crack and break at the bending point since it is under constant stress? Can it be done without folding the leather? Just glueing it behind the leather strip? I can’t see how that would hold up to daily use but maybe some of you guys have already done it and know. And lastly, what fabric to use?

Thank you again for your detailed answers.

[mike02130]

2 hours ago, Matt S said:

Another approach (which I prefer) is to use a thicker leather (say like your 2-3oz) and skive the hidden parts of the pocket to a feather edge. It needs some skill with the skiving knife but really reduces the apparent bulk of multiple stacked pockets and gives you a sturdy, chunky pocket top. It also gives you some flexibility with spongier-than-ideal bits of leather.

I agree with Matt S.

Your card holder has pronounced lines of the inner pocket.  I wonder if you are skiving enough?  You may want to go wider and taper it to almost zero.  I don't think that's the case in your picture.  I suggest you figure out this method before you go on to other types of pockets.   You may receive better help if you were to show a picture of the back of one of your T-pockets.  You may also want to upgrade from that Amazon knife in the picture.

Edited November 7, 2021 by mike02130
added info

[Piko]

Yes I am definitely skiving it but not almost to zero. I’ll tty that. I use a Superskiver…a black tool to which you mount a blade to. It works well but, again, i am still learning. 
thank you for the feedback.

[mike02130]

18 minutes ago, Piko said:

Yes I am definitely skiving it but not almost to zero.

Need a long tapered skive.  Like I said earlier, show us a picture of the back of a T-pocket.  Just make up a dummy one.  In the meantime, I went into by box of shame and pulled out an example of what you were asking about material.

[RockyAussie]

8 hours ago, Matt S said:

I'd be very interested in hearing some of the larger-quantity manufacturers' takes on wallet pockets, such as @RockyAussie

Here's a video of one of the higher-end British SLG companies (Ettinger) making a billfold. I believe that the leather is Sedgwick bridle shoulder, quite a firm and dense-grained leather, and yet they do their pocket tops with folded-over 0.7mm (2oz). While they use several machines to speed up the work almost everything they do could be done by hand.

The techniques they use in this video is mostly similar to how we do it except I have made a few tools to do it a fair bit quicker. This 3 minute video I did awhile back shows how we do it normally -

Most of the pocket tops get split to around .7mm and that can be done easily with a bell knife skiving machine if you don't have a band knife splitter. The fabric we use we import in fairly large quantities from an Italian  company called TABRU and it is a coated non fray fabric that many other large name brands use. It can come with your logo all through it if you get a large enough quantity.

[Hardrada]

Tyvek seems to be a popular material for pockets lately, so much so that Tandy is now selling it.

For the last wallet I made I used Velodon from RM Leather Supply.

To construct the card pockets I used the technique/arrangement used by this craftsman (@5:23 mark –he's using fabric instead of Velodon, but other than that...):

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Hardrada
Addenda

[Rocky143]

Business envelopes are a good source for colored Tyvek.

Search online for Tyvek Envelopes.

I did a quick search a minute ago and found a 10" x 13", 25 pack which worked out to be $0.60 per square foot for black.

[Piko]

Thank you so much for all of your answers. I bought some Tyvek but I am yet to try it. I am sticking to the whole leather thing for now.

thank you again. 

[JHLeatherwood]

On 12/6/2021 at 1:29 AM, Piko said:

Thank you so much for all of your answers. I bought some Tyvek but I am yet to try it. I am sticking to the whole leather thing for now.

thank you again. 

One more alternative. I found some 0.5oz kangaroo skin on ebay. It was about as thick as tyvek, cut with my roller, and glued up great. Until it ran out, I used it just like Aaron uses tyvek in the Makers Leather videos, and then used "kangaroo hide pockets" as an additional marketing point.

Sadly, I haven't been able to find any more since that one order.