Fixed Loop Assembly on a Narrow Strap

[TomE]

I'm having trouble assembling a fixed loop on these 3/8 inch buckle turns prior to sewing (9 oz leather skived on the buckle end).  There is little margin for error in positioning the loop ends so they are securely incorporated into the stitching.  In short, they are "fiddly." I tack one end of the loop and sew across it then I tuck the other end in and angle the awl to sew the loop in place.  I pre-punch 4-5 holes before inserting the loop then use the angled awl to punch the loop after its inserted.  I am using #207 bonded nylon thread coated with beeswax and Osborne 20 ga. harness needles. 

Questions:  Does anyone have a better (than tacking) method for securing the end of the fixed loop prior to sewing?  How do you clamp/support a narrow strap when stitching?  I modified a Weaver stitching horse for strapwork (picture).  The aluminum plates are based on a Stohlman tip for sewing rounds.  The notched plates work well for wider straps but the narrow  3/8 straps flex and twist when driving the awl, so the stitches aren't as pretty. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by TomE
clarification

[mike02130]

I don't quite understand the question.  But when I sew a keeper (loop?), I use use a wine cork on the opposite side of the awl and keep pressure on it so the strap  won't twist or flop from the awl.  

[TomE]

52 minutes ago, mike02130 said:

I don't quite understand the question.  But when I sew a keeper (loop?), I use use a wine cork on the opposite side of the awl and keep pressure on it so the strap  won't twist or flop from the awl.  

Thanks, Mike.  Do you pre-awl several holes using the cork then pick up your needles and complete several stitches at a time?  My question is whether using a tack is the best way to hold the keeper in place before sewing.  I have trouble driving the tack straight into a narrow strap for the same reasons it's hard to sew.  A 3/8" strap of 9 oz leather has a square-ish profile that tips easily when you push on the face.

Edited January 11, 2022 by TomE
additional information

[jcuk]

Yes they can fiddly or a pain in the rear end if have not done one in while that narrow, this is my method once i have fitted buckle the buckle end is tacked with one tack in the second from last stitch mark and one in the stitch mark just after the width of your fixed loop (i never tack my loops in place) i hold the fixed loop be stitched against the stitch marks about half half thickness of the strap and with my awl i put a slight mark there so i know it will not go in to far therefore knowing you left enough room for the other end of the loop to fit in. Once i have done my cross stitch not pulling it tight i place the loop in down to the mark i have made i prick the second stitch through the loop and hole and buckle turn and when i push the needle through from the opposite side of my work i stop leaving the needle half way though then i give a little pull on the loop to make sure it has been caught then stitch all the way back up to where the other end of the loop is to be stitched in place.  I put a little fold in the loop put in place i slightly angle my awl up a bit into the loop and then pull it back straight with loop now being pulled into the buckle turn - hope that makes sense and then do the same in the next stitch mark so it will pull the loop level all this can be done by angling your work in your clam or the way i do it put it the full width of your on strap in your clam but with enough of your work sticking either end of your clam depending which side you are stitching ie being left handed at the start it will on the front end of my clams and then the rear of my clams at the finish. The other thing i have just noticed is your buckle turn is the opposite way round to the way i was taught, i stitch mark on the flesh side of my work and split down the grain side that way you are not trying to find your stitch marks under the loop.(I do not pre prick any of this.)

Here a link on how the hold your work in the clams better than how i have tried to describe it i think yes the strap is wider than yours but it out over the edge at the start and finish and angled at other times.  Around 18 min mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuj6ObdTjjs

Sorry for the long winded reply but hope this helps

JCUK

   

Edited January 11, 2022 by jcuk

[Frodo]

Maybe someone can explain to me the problem.  I am just not getting it.  I fold the strap over and position  the way i want it. then i use my chisels and make holes holes 

 

May i suggest that you do not use an awl but use chisels instead?

[Dwight]

When I make loops like that . . . I put em together with steel staples.  

Have never had a customer come back and complain.

That looks pretty easy to do that way . . . 

May God bless,

Dwight

[TomE]

2 hours ago, jcuk said:

The other thing i have just noticed is your buckle turn is the opposite way round to the way i was taught, i stitch mark on the flesh side of my work and split down the grain side that way you are not trying to find your stitch marks under the loop.(I do not pre prick any of this.)

Thanks, @jcuk!  That's the kind of details I was looking for.  Lots of good suggestions to build my skills.  I think I understand them all.  I'll try sewing from the flesh/turn side instead, and angling the awl to catch the loop and pull it snug against the other end.  Will update with results.

2 hours ago, Frodo said:

Maybe someone can explain to me the problem.  I am just not getting it.  I fold the strap over and position  the way i want it. then i use my chisels and make holes holes 

 

May i suggest that you do not use an awl but use chisels instead?

Thanks for your reply, @Frodo.  The basic problem is there's precious little space under a 3/8" strap to tuck in the ends of the keeper and catch the stitch lines when sewing the buckle turn.  This throatlatch is the smallest strap on a bridle - the other straps are 5/8" and comparatively easy to assemble and stitch.  One way to avoid this tedium is to use a center bar buckle and skip the fixed loop on the buckle turn.  However, tradition prevails and I am determined to use the classic stamped steel bridle buckles that require a fixed loop with a running loop to secure the points.   

1 hour ago, Dwight said:

When I make loops like that . . . I put em together with steel staples.  

Have never had a customer come back and complain.

That looks pretty easy to do that way . . . 

May God bless,

Dwight

Thanks, @Dwight.  I've seen running loops on adjustable nosebands that are secured with a heavy steel staple of sorts.  Not sure where to buy these.  Because this fixed loop is sewn into the buckle turn, I'd prefer to just sew it.  For running loops, I enjoy making them with a single needle backstitch.    

 

[tsunkasapa]

1 hour ago, TomE said:

Thanks, @jcuk!  That's the kind of details I was looking for.  Lots of good suggestions to build my skills.  I think I understand them all.  I'll try sewing from the flesh/turn side instead, and angling the awl to catch the loop and pull it snug against the other end.  Will update with results.

Thanks for your reply, @Frodo.  The basic problem is there's precious little space under a 3/8" strap to tuck in the ends of the keeper and catch the stitch lines when sewing the buckle turn.  This throatlatch is the smallest strap on a bridle - the other straps are 5/8" and comparatively easy to assemble and stitch.  One way to avoid this tedium is to use a center bar buckle and skip the fixed loop on the buckle turn.  However, tradition prevails and I am determined to use the classic stamped steel bridle buckles that require a fixed loop with a running loop to secure the points.   

Thanks, @Dwight.  I've seen running loops on adjustable nosebands that are secured with a heavy steel staple of sorts.  Not sure where to buy these.  Because this fixed loop is sewn into the buckle turn, I'd prefer to just sew it.  For running loops, I enjoy making them with a single needle backstitch.    

 

I sew my loops with a simple cross stitch, then sew them in however the regular stitch would fall. I can generally angle the needle after it's through. I frequently help the process with liberal use of 'Carpenter Words'! And I don't mean square, level or plumb. 

[TomE]

12 hours ago, tsunkasapa said:

I sew my loops with a simple cross stitch, then sew them in however the regular stitch would fall. I can generally angle the needle after it's through. I frequently help the process with liberal use of 'Carpenter Words'! And I don't mean square, level or plumb. 

Thanks, @tsunkasapa.  That would be a simpler setup.  With the narrow strap I'd be stitching over the cross stitch, which might weaken the loop.