Samstagg Rigging

[Outlaw68]

I have an early 1800s double-rigged skirt-less half seat Texas Hope with two piece Samstagg rigging. The saddle overall is in great condition with a solid tree and horn but the rigging is badly surface cracked with the off rear quarter strap broken and the latigos are pretty stiff. I'm wanting to replace all the rigging to make it safe to ride and I want to make it match the original. If I were just going to use it for decoration or sell it I wouldn't bother, but it fits a little pinto cow-pony that I'm hoping to buy like a glove and fits me too, it's real comfortable. Does anyone know how much this will detract from the value if I ever went to sell it? Also, the rigging is nailed on and covered with nice floral brass conchos, I want to keep them, but I can't figure out how to get them off without damaging them. Any ideas? Thanks so much!

[jrdunn]

Your questions are way beyond my abilities but welcome and I'd sure like to see pictures of that saddle!

[MikeRock]

Oh  boy!!  Please, some photos.

God bless

[Mulesaw]

Like the others said, please let us see it  :-)

 

[Outlaw68]

Sorry, I don't have any pictures yet, might get some sometime. While I'm here, does anyone have any idea who might've made the saddle? It has no maker's marks or stamps or anything except for the stamp 123 on the near fore jockey where the fork joins the bar. I'm thinking it was made around the 1830s somewhere around Texas by a small town saddler. It seems to have been made by a very talented craftsman and judging by some of the details in how it was built, I'd say the guy rode a lot and cared a lot about his horses, maybe before he became a saddlemaker. Any info on a possible maker would be appreciated.

[TomE]

Mike Graham, owner of Ruxton's Trading Post (Manitou Springs CO), is an expert appraiser of collectable/historic saddles.  He was a regular contributor to Western Horseman when we subscribed.

[Outlaw68]

Thanks, I'll look into it. Also, if it helps, the stirrups are wood, but not steam bent like we're used to seeing, or even the old Mexican style stirrups that are a circle with a half moon cut out for the boot, but made of a thicker piece of wood, notched, and bent along the notches, then fastened to the bar that holds the stirrup leather, so that also makes it look to be pretty old. I've forgotten what they're called, but if anyone has ever seen Tales Of Wells Fargo, you should know the leather flaps tacked to the outer edge of Jim's stirrups, my stirrups have that too, but they don't extend past the bottom, and they don't cover the stirrup like tapaderos, just the outer edge of the wood, I think they were put on there for practicality, not looks, so in the case of needing to mount quickly he could see which way the stirrups went because the stirrup leathers are free swinging and the fenders are small, so the stirrups can get twisted up. All the metal is iron instead of steel, except for the conchos, which as I said previously, are brass.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Outlaw68

[Northmount]

@Outlaw68 You really need to post some pictures as has been noted in previous posts so people can see the saddle.  Very hard to get a true impression from just text.  It has been said many times that a picture is worth a thousand words.  That really applies here.

 

[MikeRock]

Yup........PHOTOS!!  You might actually get some help then.

[Klara]

Regarding the resale value: I dare say that using the saddle should take precedence over reselling it. But I'd wait till I've actually bought the horse before working on the saddle. And you could keep the old rigging in case a buyer would like to return the saddle to its museum condition. Or to prove that yours is identical to the original. 

[Outlaw68]

I found an old photo of the saddle, the bottom of the stirrup isn't visible, but it's sadly the best photo I have, so hopefully it helps.

[MikeRock]

Since you have the saddle, can't you take some photos of it, or have a friend take some? 

 

[Outlaw68]

I've tried, but the quality of photos and lighting is terrible, I'll keep trying though.

[Northmount]

2 hours ago, Outlaw68 said:

photos and lighting is terrible

Take it out to the shady side of the house where the lighting is all around, fewer shadows.  No really bright reflections.

 

[Outlaw68]

Just remembered bout this thread. I was remodelin the shop last year and sent all my good stuff like that saddle to my brother's so there'd be no chance of it gettin damaged. Since then I've been workin on gear a lot lately and it slipped my mind. I'm almost done fixing the fifth saddle I've gotten in to work on this year and since things are startin to calm down and I've got the saddle back. I'm gonna get some pictures here quick. It needs a good cleaning and a coat of dubbin. Hasn't been messed with in over a year, so it's not that shiny, but when it's cleaned up it gets a real nice shine. It's not heavily tooled or anything, just  plain double line border tool on the riggin straps, sweat leathers, seat, and leather flaps on the stirrups, but it's pretty in my opinion. I grew up on saddles like this and the old Porters. I think these are the most comfortable, but this is the only one of that style I have. I got the pony and another few and it fits all real well, even a good bit of the bigger horses I ride too, (no, it doesn't have modern bars. It's just how it's built) but I found my old Porter in the barn (thought my dad had sold it years ago. Reckon he forgot about it. It's got the same angle to the bars and fits the ponies too) and fixed it up, so I don't need to fix this one up to ride, but I'm still thinking about it, at least as a project for the future. Tree and horn are still tight and all the leather's soft and supple, just a few pieces broke. If I ever do go to fix it to ride I'll replace all the riggin just to be safe, but it's overall in good shape.