Compact and possibly portable sewing machine for watch straps

[suhajko]

Hey guys. I researched a lot but Im still struggling to find the right thing for me.

First let me tell you a little about what I do. For 11 years now I am making bespoke watch straps, all hand made including stitching. I am more into delicate straps with thickness between 1,5mm to 2,5mm tops. I use mainly calf, goat, pigskin but also shell cordovan. The straps are usually lined with calf and consist of 2-3 layers of leather. 
As I wrote, I do hand stitching and I like it. But I want to get into machine stitching too…

From what I was reading here on the forum, a compound machine would be good for my purposes. But are there any smaller and lighter compound machines out there? I dont really have too much space, and I really dont need a machine for heavy work. Im not interested to make other products at the moment so a heavy industrial machine seems a bit overkill… In addition, the machine would be stitching maybe 10-20 straps per week so I guess this really is not something that would require a machine meant for mass production.

I was also wondering, would a needle feed machine work OK for watch straps too? The leathers I work with are quite delicate sometimes and Im pretty sure that the feed dog claws of a standard machine would leave very nasty marks on the straps, and a walking foot might not be ideal as it tends to leave some pressure marks too.

The machine should be probably equipped with a motor that can go really slow to have control and I will also need a pressure foot that will allow me to use a edge guide…

I am located in Europe, so I would like to buy the machine in Europe preferably…

I will welcome any comments and useful information. 
thanks!

[RockyAussie]

It would help I think if you could post a few pictures of the watch straps you are making. What range of thicknesses do you want to use in thread? How much and how sharp a profile at the edge do you like. Something with a thick and sharp profile can be a bit harder to do and if the leather is soft then you can get miss stitching unless you can get a very good foot shape. A roller foot can work alright sometimes but sometimes not depending on the shape, the leather how easily it marks, the needles used etc etc. I have a Pfaff 331 (not walking foot) that works very well for me but they have not made any machines like it for many years now so just about rarer than rocking horse poo. If you would like to see one of these have a look at this watch strap post I made awhile ago.

Most likely being in Europe I would have a look for an Adler 69 which is walking foot cylinder machine. A Techsew 2600 would be probably a good choice as well if they are available there. They come with a proper up and down feed dog movement and have a large bobbin and can take a thick thread 138 (20 metric thread if needed.

[suhajko]

Here are a few pictures. I use mainly 2,25 to 3mm stitch spacing. The thickness of the edges is very individual and does depend on what the customer wants and what materials are used…

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by suhajko

[chrisash]

There is the Sailrite model of walking foot machine that might fit the bill, it comes in various models some setup for leather work with speed reducers etc

https://www.sailrite.com/Sewing-Machines/Portable-Heavy-Duty-Sewing-Machines/Ultrafeed-LSZ-1-Sewing-Machine

[suhajko]

I dont think I will be able to find the sailrite machine in europe

[RockyAussie]

2 hours ago, suhajko said:

Here are a few pictures. I use mainly 2,25 to 3mm stitch spacing. The thickness of the edges is very individual and does depend on what the customer wants and what materials are used…

 

A watch band with the low profile would be no problems with the machines I mentioned or even ones with a medium profile like this one is alright as well -

Note that I leave the threads long to do the finishing off by hand.

Ones with a heavy varying height profile like this one I still do by hand though - ( Over 5mm thick rubber filler from memory)

[suhajko]

Yeah, straps with padding wouldn’t come anywhere near the sewing machine. I want to do more straps with delicate stitching like attached here. These are not my straps, they are done by a very nice Italian chap…

[kgg]

3 hours ago, chrisash said:

There is the Sailrite model of walking foot machine that might fit the bill, it comes in various models some setup for leather work with speed reducers etc

I think the portable walking foot machines like the Sailrite and others, as they have pretty rough feet, would probably leave marks. Since you are in Europe I think finding a Alder or Juki would be easier in the Brand names or one of their clones.

3 hours ago, suhajko said:

I dont think I will be able to find the sailrite machine in europe

What country are you in as someone maybe able to direct you towards something available in your area?

kgg

[MtlBiker]

3 hours ago, chrisash said:

There is the Sailrite model of walking foot machine that might fit the bill, it comes in various models some setup for leather work with speed reducers etc

https://www.sailrite.com/Sewing-Machines/Portable-Heavy-Duty-Sewing-Machines/Ultrafeed-LSZ-1-Sewing-Machine

I'm not sure the LSZ-1 is the right machine in this case.  (I have one, and love it, but...)

There is no smooth presser foot available for it and the standard foot is very aggressive.  I bought the optional smoother foot, but it's still not flat.  And the machine is walking foot but has no needle feed.  The requirement of a portable machine will make finding the right one quite difficult I think.

Here's what the feet look like:  The one on the left is the standard/included sawtooth foot and on the right is the optional knurled foot.  If I have leather that marks easily I use either my RB206-5 or Techsew 2750 with a smooth bottom presser foot.

@suhajko - The watch strap you showed is very nice!  Mind saying what thickness of leather you used and how many layers?  I've never tried (yet) to make a watch strap but I'd like to.

 

[Scoutmom103]

These are not industrial sewing machines and can't handle heavy leather.     You might want to read about Singer 201-1 (Treadle Operated), 201-3 (BR external motor with belt drive) or 201-4 (hand cranked), or the K versions made in the UK between 1935-1962. 201-k, 201K3, 201K4, 201K21,23&24. .  Germany also made a verson from 1935-1944? 201D (cast iron model as 201K3 etc.)       There are forums regarding the Singer 201s and I think there may be a Facebook group of users.   I think all of these models could use a servo motor in place of its current motor if needed.    Here is a link to Harry Rodgers on youtube discussing it.  Harry is a Leatherworker, if you haven't heard of him.    Best Budget Leather Sewing Machine? - Bing video.

Any Singer 201 with -2 (I believe) has a potted motor which is attached directly to the machine and doesn't use an external belt.  Most require checking out the wiring in the motor.

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Scoutmom103
Forgot to add about 201-2

[suhajko]

2 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

 

@suhajko - The watch strap you showed is very nice!  Mind saying what thickness of leather you used and how many layers?  I've never tried (yet) to make a watch strap but I'd like to.

 

The upper leather on this one was french calf in about 1,2mm. The core of the strap was a sandwich from split calf in 3 layers thinning down towards the end of the strap to fit in a particular buckle. The bottom layer was 0,5mm Zermatt. So a total of 5 layers. The strap was about 4,5mm where it attaches to the watch and about 1,7mm where it enters the buckle of the watch.

 

 

[Matt S]

15 hours ago, suhajko said:

Hey guys. I researched a lot but Im still struggling to find the right thing for me.

First let me tell you a little about what I do. For 11 years now I am making bespoke watch straps, all hand made including stitching. I am more into delicate straps with thickness between 1,5mm to 2,5mm tops. I use mainly calf, goat, pigskin but also shell cordovan. The straps are usually lined with calf and consist of 2-3 layers of leather. 
As I wrote, I do hand stitching and I like it. But I want to get into machine stitching too…

From what I was reading here on the forum, a compound machine would be good for my purposes. But are there any smaller and lighter compound machines out there? I dont really have too much space, and I really dont need a machine for heavy work. Im not interested to make other products at the moment so a heavy industrial machine seems a bit overkill… In addition, the machine would be stitching maybe 10-20 straps per week so I guess this really is not something that would require a machine meant for mass production.

I was also wondering, would a needle feed machine work OK for watch straps too? The leathers I work with are quite delicate sometimes and Im pretty sure that the feed dog claws of a standard machine would leave very nasty marks on the straps, and a walking foot might not be ideal as it tends to leave some pressure marks too.

The machine should be probably equipped with a motor that can go really slow to have control and I will also need a pressure foot that will allow me to use a edge guide…

I am located in Europe, so I would like to buy the machine in Europe preferably…

I will welcome any comments and useful information. 
thanks!

Your smallest and lightest reliable option is probably going to be something like a Pfaff 335 (of appropriate subclass) or Adler 69. These particular two models have the added benefit of being so popular that mods and accessories are readily available. The head weighs about 30Kg without motor, bobbin winder etc. They are proper industrial machines. Anything less and you lose important features (like a Singer 31K, which is available cheap but is a drop-feed-only, less positive than a compound feed and trickier to get consistent results with for a less experienced operator).

For slow speed you should make sure that the machine is equipped with a servo motor. Jack makes popular and reliable ones that aren't too expensive. Unfortunately the minimum/"start" speed is probably higher than you'll find ideal so you will have to put a speed-reducing idler pulley between the machine and the motor. You can either make one with a large and small pulley, a piece of 15mm steel shaft and a pair of pillow block bearings or just buy one from Sieck. IIRC €85+VAT.

If you don't have space for an industrial machine stand you can mount them on a sturdy wooden board and put them on your workbench, but then you'd either have to rig up a remote pedal or just turn the wheel by hand.

If you can't cough up for a real one, there are Chinese copies available of various quality but being mechanically inclined my preference is very strongly for a second/third/fourth hand machine from a "premium" manufacturer -- Singer, Seiko, Durkopp, Adler, Pfaff, Brother etc. Quality of manufacture trumps a shiny paintjob in my book, but that's not everyone's taste.

[chrisash]

This video is a good indicator of the two machines a Sailrite and a Industrial

 

[Wizcrafts]

No matter the make or model of sewing machine, you are going to need one that takes accessory presser feet, because you will need a left toe only presser foot to get close enough to the edges to line up an edge guide as close as these bands require. Whew, what a long, compound sentence!

Here's the deal with the Sailrite LS-1 (straight stitch only): it has a wide double toe outer foot. You would have to order their left toe foot to get close to the edges They sell this as a zipper foot and it has teeth. If you wanted a set with the serrated bottoms it would be a special order and might be expensive. These machines are dual top/bottom feed and need some grip on top.

It might be possible to sew your watch bands using a roller foot machine with a very small roller wheel. The wheel is on the left normally. These machines can be had in flat bed, post bed and cylinder arm configurations. Typically, they are bottom feed only, with some even having a round feed dog that revolves instead of doing a 4 way motion. Old models from yesteryear had no reverse. You will want to avoid those because it will be nigh impossible to spin the work to lock the stitches when you are sewing 1/16th inch in from the edges. So, if you want to go this route, look for a roller foot machine that has reverse.

If neither of these types of machine appeal to you, it's remotely possible to use a straight stitch machine with a zipper foot and bottom feed via a feed dog with aggressive teeth. These are aftermarket feeders that come with a matching throat plate. In fact, in the past I have purchased a three piece roller foot conversion kit for straight stitch machines that already had pretty aggressive feed dog teeth. The rollers are available in small, medium and large diameter and have serrations to grip the leather. You would have to ask the sellers about the actual diameters of the rollers they offer.

Aside from the Sailrite, which is specifically targeted to people doing onboard boating repairs, these are all industrial sewing machines requiring a special work table with a heavy duty servo or clutch motor underneath. While most are 20 x 48 inches, some are available cut shorter, or for cylinder arm machines, as pedestal stands. I don't usually get involved in discussions about using domestic sewing machines when the discussion is about sewing leather.

[suhajko]

So far the Adler 69 seems like a good option for me. 
I have found a Juki DSC 245 for sale. Seems to have triple feed. Anybody with some experiences with this machine?

[kgg]

49 minutes ago, suhajko said:

I have found a Juki DSC 245 for sale.

The main drawback is the max thread size as I read the spec. to be from V33 (Tkt 80) to V69 (Tkt 40) and as usual with the Juki's they rated their max needle size for one thread size above at a #21 needle which could technically accept a V92 (Tkt 30) thread. Also I read the spec as having a small bobbin. I would look for in the Juki's an older Juki LS-341 or LS=1341.

kgg

[suhajko]

V92 max would be sufficient for all my watch strap needs. I mostly use thinner threads anyway. A small bobbin is not an issue, Im not doing upholstery

I will be on the lookout for the LS341 and 1341 but have to look at stats and reviews first. I decided to buy only something that I will be able to source locally and try out before I buy…

[Matt S]

2 hours ago, kgg said:

The main drawback is the max thread size as I read the spec. to be from V33 (Tkt 80) to V69 (Tkt 40) and as usual with the Juki's they rated their max needle size for one thread size above at a #21 needle which could technically accept a V92 (Tkt 30) thread. Also I read the spec as having a small bobbin. I would look for in the Juki's an older Juki LS-341 or LS=1341.

kgg

IIRC the Juki 245 takes a M-size bobbin (roughly 1" diameter and 3/8" thick). Roughly 50% increased capacity over a 111-style G. Even a G-size bobbin ought to be fine for a few dozen watch straps a month I would have thought.

[kgg]

3 minutes ago, Matt S said:

IIRC the Juki 245 takes a M-size bobbin

I thought it was the DSC-246 and the DSC-246-7 that took the double capacity bobbin.

kgg

[Matt S]

5 minutes ago, kgg said:

I thought it was the DSC-246 and the DSC-246-7 that took the double capacity bobbin.

kgg

I've just checked the spec and you're right. I'd forgotten that the 246 has a larger hook and bobbin than the 245.

[kgg]

36 minutes ago, Matt S said:

Even a G-size bobbin ought to be fine for a few dozen watch straps a month I would have thought.

Your right the smaller bobbin shouldn't be a problem. I would be more concerned at the choices of thread sizes the DSC-245 can accommodate.

kgg

Edited January 30, 2022 by kgg
word missing

[Cassy0110]

If the problem hasn't still resolved, I can advise read this article SPAM LINK REMOVED there are several sewing machines, I prefer Singer and it's suitable for leather. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Wizcrafts
This new member claims to live in New York, but all of his posts resolve to Moscow, Federation Of Russia. I removed an off-topic link. This person has no understanding of leather sewing machines and is possibly here on a spam expedition in the making.