Professional wallet making tutorial (book)

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Danne said:

T

"I think it can be good to take inspiration from other people but not copy someone else."

I absolutely agree friend. You inspire me with your attention to detail.

Edited February 5, 2022 by chuck123wapati

[Danne]

1 hour ago, Spyros said:

Personally I really like the look of tranche pockets, but I could never understand how is it possible to keep the pocket liners in place long term with just glue and no stitching...

Unless there's some other trick I'm missing?

 

Yes it will also result in a slim wallet. But I agree with you. It feels like the wallet will hold up well for many decades, except the pockets. If you decide to try it have a look at Renia syntic total, I have found that glue to be very strong with most synthetic materials. But I feel a little skeptical to this solutions durability.

[Danne]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

"I think it can be good to take inspiration from other people but not copy someone else."

I absolutely agree friend. You inspire me with your attention to detail.

Even if you might not like making watch straps. I really recommend doing them. Material cost is low, and it’s certainly the thing that have improved my attention to details most. 

But also I’m a little biased here because I really like making watch straps.

 

[RockyAussie]

11 hours ago, Spyros said:

Unless there's some other trick I'm missing?

A very common repair I got when I had the repair shops was people bringing this type of construction in to have the fabric re glued. Not very successful as often the glue they used ended up going tacky/slimy and trying to remove it was just not worth it. From what I learned there I have never done that method unless it was stitched and that is only on special custom jobs.

16 hours ago, Danne said:

look at the photos I shared from Danel. Download it and zoom in and you can see how well planned all skiving is. And this might seem easy in theory but a lot harder in practice.

For most makers this method of skiving would add way to much to the cost and would not happen easily with a skiving machine. Getting a level looking edge all around is good practice whether it be an finish edged or a folded finish but a better construction method will give you that and take less than a quarter of the time to achieve. If we are making a run of wallets like this one below the average time per piece would be approx 1.5 hours. This uses a clicker press, splitting machine, skiving machine, glueing machine, line up and folding machine, 2 stitching machines and a polishing machine. If made in plainer leathers the time can be a lot quicker than that. This is in no way meant to deter anyone from looking to learn but I do get a bit pissed when I see so many people thinking that if they learn some of these techniques from the masters that they will be able to sell their products and the same outlandish prices that the masters supposedly get.

[Spyros]

1 hour ago, RockyAussie said:

This is in no way meant to deter anyone from looking to learn but I do get a bit pissed when I see so many people thinking that if they learn some of these techniques from the masters that they will be able to sell their products and the same outlandish prices that the masters supposedly get.

Well the prices have nothing to do with any of the above really.  Pricing depends on one thing and one thing only: how much the customer wants to pay, period.   They definitely want to pay for something (anything at all) that says Hermes on it, and some people want to pay for the romantic idea of a lone artisan with a leather apron and a French hat making custom items for them.  (I told you to wear a leather apron Brian, start smoking a pipe and sell your image, you're not listening to me LOL)

Now to get a customer to want to pay an outlandish price, there are a few things one can do, but talking to them about the cost of making things is just not one of them.  They don't care, and they don't understand anyway.

[Danne]

2 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

A very common repair I got when I had the repair shops was people bringing this type of construction in to have the fabric re glued. Not very successful as often the glue they used ended up going tacky/slimy and trying to remove it was just not worth it. From what I learned there I have never done that method unless it was stitched and that is only on special custom jobs.

For most makers this method of skiving would add way to much to the cost and would not happen easily with a skiving machine. Getting a level looking edge all around is good practice whether it be an finish edged or a folded finish but a better construction method will give you that and take less than a quarter of the time to achieve. If we are making a run of wallets like this one below the average time per piece would be approx 1.5 hours. This uses a clicker press, splitting machine, skiving machine, glueing machine, line up and folding machine, 2 stitching machines and a polishing machine. If made in plainer leathers the time can be a lot quicker than that. This is in no way meant to deter anyone from looking to learn but I do get a bit pissed when I see so many people thinking that if they learn some of these techniques from the masters that they will be able to sell their products and the same outlandish prices that the masters supposedly get.

Nice wallet.

For me the time it takes to make something will never be important. It would remove everything I like about this craft, spending a lot of times on the smallest of details is very important for me, and a large part of what I enjoy with this craft.
 

Do I believe I could reach a level of finish and reputation so I could charge a higher price that would make it worth spending like 4-5 hours on a wallet? Yes I do, if crafters like Sima, Hughes, Shiang can do it (they mainly sell based on quality, attention to details and reputation) then I can reach that goal also. Will it be easy? No, Is it hard competetition? Yes, is the customer base large? No. 
 

I don’t sell anything, but have sold one bifold (veg tan exterior and goat interior) for 300euro + shipping. And was asked if I could make a couple more wallets to friends of that person. I have also been been asked if I can make wallets in exotics. And I have explained that I don’t take any orders, but people have been willing to pay a decent price if I would change my mind. So I think there are people who are willing to pay decent for what I make. Does this mean I could get enough orders to make a living out of this today? No. It would take time. I would need a lot of options when it comes to leather, and I would need to get a reputation. And also improve both finish and more designs. And it’s not like I could just start making 800-1000 euro gator wallets. There is a demand for those handmade products but the competetition is really hard. 
 

But no matter what anyone say to me, I will still feel certain I can reach that goal. 
 

Some people have laughed at me when they have asked what my goals are, people who also do similar work where they spend a lot of time on crafting their products. They have told me ”You will never be able to charge those amounts” (of course I don’t talk about high end fashion house prices, far from) Those people with that mindset will most likely never succeed themselves. 
 

And of course to reach that goal I would have to take this from a hobby and get a space large enough for equipment and leather storage and work hard and slowly come closer to my goal. Starting with card cases and watch straps in regular leather and now and then get some orders in exotics. But one day I would be able to take mainly custom orders and work a lot with exotics.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Danne

[Klara]

18 hours ago, Spyros said:

Personally I really like the look of tranche pockets, but I could never understand how is it possible to keep the pocket liners in place long term with just glue and no stitching...

Unless there's some other trick I'm missing?

 

I've just regarded this video  

and I admit I'd be disappointed if I had bought a wallet, took it apart some day (I can't imagine that ribbon holding up well) and found such an interior. But I wonder whether one couldn't use another liner and sew it down somehow?

Guess I'll have to make a wallet some day just to try it... 

Of course, when I just had a closer look at my current wallet, it turned out that the pockets are in fabric, which just a thin strip of leather at the top...

 

[Spyros]

18 hours ago, Danne said:

Yes it will also result in a slim wallet. But I agree with you. It feels like the wallet will hold up well for many decades, except the pockets. If you decide to try it have a look at Renia syntic total, I have found that glue to be very strong with most synthetic materials. But I feel a little skeptical to this solutions durability.

Hmmm maybe not this glue... this glue is for shoes, which means it stays forever flexible.  That's probably not what you want, you want rigid in this instance, something that dries like epoxy or superglue.

Actually what happens if you use 2 part epoxy on leather?  Something tells me it's a terrible idea, but I havent tried it.

[chrisash]

4 hours ago, Danne said:

Nice wallet.

For me the time it takes to make something will never be important. It would remove everything I like about this craft, spending a lot of times on the smallest of details is very important for me, and a large part of what I enjoy with this craft.
 

Do I believe I could reach a level of finish and reputation so I could charge a higher price that would make it worth spending like 4-5 hours on a wallet? Yes I do, if crafters like Sima, Hughes, Shiang can do it (they mainly sell based on quality, attention to details and reputation) then I can reach that goal also. Will it be easy? No, Is it hard competetition? Yes, is the customer base large? No. 
 

I don’t sell anything, but have sold one bifold (veg tan exterior and goat interior) for 300euro + shipping. And was asked if I could make a couple more wallets to friends of that person. I have also been been asked if I can make wallets in exotics. And I have explained that I don’t take any orders, but people have been willing to pay a decent price if I would change my mind. So I think there are people who are willing to pay decent for what I make. Does this mean I could get enough orders to make a living out of this today? No. It would take time. I would need a lot of options when it comes to leather, and I would need to get a reputation. And also improve both finish and more designs. And it’s not like I could just start making 800-1000 euro gator wallets. There is a demand for those handmade products but the competetition is really hard. 
 

But no matter what anyone say to me, I will still feel certain I can reach that goal. 
 

Some people have laughed at me when they have asked what my goals are, people who also do similar work where they spend a lot of time on crafting their products. They have told me ”You will never be able to charge those amounts” (of course I don’t talk about high end fashion house prices, far from) Those people with that mindset will most likely never succeed themselves. 
 

And of course to reach that goal I would have to take this from a hobby and get a space large enough for equipment and leather storage and work hard and slowly come closer to my goal. Starting with card cases and watch straps in regular leather and now and then get some orders in exotics. But one day I would be able to take mainly custom orders and work a lot with exotics.

Whilst you have done fantastically well to get 300 Euros, that's only a tenth of say the Hermes equivalent, but probably 10 times more than the average wallet on the internet

The big difference is that the name Hermes, LV etc is well known to the rich and they want or need to buy them to show their wealth to others, and there brads spend a fortune advertising / marketing their brand to the selected rich. Yes its possible for new companies to compete but probably more than one working lifetime

My question is if they are that good why don't they just publish the book and sell it, why do they need advance orders on a unknown book to make it.

At the end of the day most craft workers have a need for a minimum amount of money coming in each month and that means they chose a selling price area that gives them this constant income

How much would you pay for @RockyAussie to learn his skills at making quality items using his own designs, yet he takes the time to make video's and presents them for free

[Spyros]

3 hours ago, Klara said:

I've just regarded this video  

Is that a direct translation of the french "regarder"?   It's not the same thing in english

 

[RockyAussie]

13 hours ago, chrisash said:

My question is if they are that good why don't they just publish the book and sell it, why do they need advance orders on a unknown book to make it.

At the end of the day most craft workers have a need for a minimum amount of money coming in each month and that means they chose a selling price area that gives them this constant income

How much would you pay for @RockyAussie to learn his skills at making quality items using his own designs, yet he takes the time to make video's and presents them for free

Good questions and good points. I see a lot of people these days selling very little of their product but offering to teach or sell people on all their techniques and secrets etc. Many come here to learn and share knowledge and grow their own business as well. I am only trying to warn that many of these video's and pattern sellers are only catering to the hobbyist who in their spare time can use a knife and some awl and needles at home. The likely hood  of the patterns and techniques they offer is very unlikely to give much help to someone wanting to make a living from it. I like making well made leather goods and I like making it profitably as well. I am happy to share some of my knowledge here for free, like this post where I show a video using a device that enables a quick lining up of the pockets in a wallet and some of the other machinery and steps involved. Not shown in it after the credit card pockets are assembled is the second cutting at the clicker press to get a quick, clean straight line around the edges.

I do hope in the near future to start running some very limited number classes on how I make and design products with a focus on a what machines to buy and how to use them.

[Klara]

On 2/6/2022 at 1:33 PM, Spyros said:

Is that a direct translation of the french "regarder"?   It's not the same thing in english

 

Yup, sorry! Happens if I watch/read too much in French...

Today's language lesson: J'ai regardé le vidéo = I watched the video

Edited February 8, 2022 by Klara

[chuck123wapati]

8 minutes ago, Klara said:

Yup, sorry! Happens if I watch/read too much in French...

Today's language lesson: J'ai regardé le vidéo = I watched the video

oui oui Merci Beaucoup

 I love French cooking especially the potatoes lol.

[chuck123wapati]

On 2/6/2022 at 4:40 PM, RockyAussie said:

Good questions and good points. I see a lot of people these days selling very little of their product but offering to teach or sell people on all their techniques and secrets etc. Many come here to learn and share knowledge and grow their own business as well. I am only trying to warn that many of these video's and pattern sellers are only catering to the hobbyist who in their spare time can use a knife and some awl and needles at home. The likely hood  of the patterns and techniques they offer is very unlikely to give much help to someone wanting to make a living from it. I like making well made leather goods and I like making it profitably as well. I am happy to share some of my knowledge here for free, like this post where I show a video using a device that enables a quick lining up of the pockets in a wallet and some of the other machinery and steps involved. Not shown in it after the credit card pockets are assembled is the second cutting at the clicker press to get a quick, clean straight line around the edges.

I do hope in the near future to start running some very limited number classes on how I make and design products with a focus on a what machines to buy and how to use them.

Most of the best make alot of money on books and or videos and tool lines. Stohlman and Nigel come to mind. Probably more than they do/did off of actual leather work. Its a proven successful business model. I also think most of us have learned from a book or two written by them or a video. Nothing wrong IMO of writing a book or making a video for those folks who don't have the knowledge. Nothing wrong with freely giving the knowledge either.  I have this saying Knowledge does you no good to keep to yourself simply because anyone can learn it somewhere else.  I would hope you do give classes and wish you all the luck in the world.

[RockyAussie]

6 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

I would hope you do give classes and wish you all the luck in the world.

Thanks Chuck, With all this Covid stuff around I may have to get a whole lot more tech savy first. I way prefer one on one teaching really.

[tprosk]

On 2/4/2022 at 1:01 AM, Danne said:

I have analyzed enough of her photos to see how most parts of the wallet is  constructed. But not the techniques used (Just like I do everywhere on Instagram) 

I have some things I would like to do different, but it would require me to be able to split leather. 

Since I never had any education I often do things in a very complicated way. And I’m certain there are a lot of tips and tricks on how to align things, flush cut and such.

Two things she do that I don’t do.

1. Full size card pockets and fully lined. I do a relatively wide T-pocket construction and not lined. I will probably keep doing it this way but when I have a splitting solution I think I will line pockets. I personally don’t see any benefits of lining card pockets in the goat I usually use for my wallet interiors, but when combining with other types of leather like alligator I want them lined so at least for some combinations I will line all card pockets.

2. Her wallets are (X-stitched) I don’t know a better word. But they are punched with the same iron from both sides and stitched without casting the thread. The benefit with this is that it’s a lot easier to get a nice slant on both sides. On really thin leather when only punching from one side at least I have to choose which side should have the ”best slant” Another crafter that use this technique is Atelier Shiang.

Also skiving is done different on her wallets, in a way I will be interested in learning because I would benefit from that construction method for other types of leather than what I use now. And I’m sure that book will give me a decent amount of ”wow moments” like ”oh I never thought about doing it that way”

Most crafters do some things different. I feel confident in the durability of my wallets, but I still have a lot to learn before I would be able to do fully custom work and still keep a slim profile. 

Hi Danne, 

Do you know anything further about this x style punching? Have you seen this video before?  I've done a test run of this before and gotten linen thread to sit nicely on both sides. I'm doing a wallet right now and it's not sitting so nicely on the back side, he does front casting. Are you saying to do no casting on either side with this method?

Thanks. 

[Danne]

1 hour ago, tprosk said:

Hi Danne, 

Do you know anything further about this x style punching? Have you seen this video before?  I've done a test run of this before and gotten linen thread to sit nicely on both sides. I'm doing a wallet right now and it's not sitting so nicely on the back side, he does front casting. Are you saying to do no casting on either side with this method?

Thanks. 

I have only done test pieces, and I don't cast the thread. I just watched the clip, and I stitch towards myself. 

[HudsonR]

Can anyone share a good video/tutorial of perforation technique. I am still stuck at that part.

[Klara]

Ckeck out Nigel Armitage's videos on YouTube. 

[Alsopp]

Oh, I'll try to do it according to your instructions, then I'll send you the result