step in chaps

[hickok55]

i hear at 19th century step in shotgun chaps were made bigger so they could fit over your boot's. does anyone know how much bigger.

[Davm]

That's not my understanding. That was one drawback of shotgun chaps- you had to take your boots off.  If you want 19th Century, fringed shotguns are the way to go, batwings came around closer to or after 1900.

[hickok55]

i find it quite hard to find information on step in shotgun chaps. i guess i'll just have to take my boots off and on.

[Dwight]

4 hours ago, hickok55 said:

i find it quite hard to find information on step in shotgun chaps. i guess i'll just have to take my boots off and on.

I made mine with full length zippers . . . ain't takin my boots of in "who knows what" ground . . . water . . . snow . . . poo . . . 

Buckle them dudes around the waist . . . hit the zippers . . . mount up and yer done.

May God bless,

Dwight

[tsunkasapa]

7 minutes ago, Dwight said:

I made mine with full length zippers . . . ain't takin my boots of in "who knows what" ground . . . water . . . snow . . . poo . . . 

Buckle them dudes around the waist . . . hit the zippers . . . mount up and yer done.

May God bless,

Dwight

There is a REALLY nasty compound found in barnyards called SHUD. 

[jrdunn]

Another problem with "step ins", If you already have some of that green gravy on your boots, it will most likely end up inside your chaps.

JM2C

[Davm]

I thought you wanted to have a period type chaps, so on the zippers, probably not historically correct.  On the fringe, always big arguments but I'd look at some period photos and copy the fringe. Cutting and sewing in the fringe will definately be the hardest part of the job.  

[hickok55]

31 minutes ago, Davm said:

I thought you wanted to have a period type chaps, so on the zippers, probably not historically correct.  On the fringe, always big arguments but I'd look at some period photos and copy the fringe. Cutting and sewing in the fringe will definately be the hardest part of the job.  

i'm not going to use zippers. this is the phone i'm using for reference.

Edited February 10, 2022 by hickok55

[Dwight]

2 hours ago, hickok55 said:

i'm not going to use zippers. this is the phone i'm using for reference.

Considering that is a staged pic . . . shined chaps . . . brand new cuffs . . . Sunday go to meeting hats on . . . with their Sunday coats . . .  I'd really like someone somewhere to give me the low down on these two.

Might just be actors from some sort of show . . . with their "show" clothes . . . that follow after Marshall Dillon's belt and holster . . . never was one like it on the range . . .

As well . . . those kind of chaps also sewn they way they are across the front would have gotten the rider killed if he slipped forward and it went around the horn of the saddle.

Then as well . . . both are wearing city boy galluses . . . and only the stage actors carried a horse beater whip like each has on his hand . . . to say nothing of the gold watch chain the dude on the left has . . . ostensibly going to his gold watch . . . that  at his age he would not have been able to afford on  a dollar a day and grub.

But who knows.

May God bless,

Dwight

[hickok55]

6 minutes ago, Dwight said:

Considering that is a staged pic . . . shined chaps . . . brand new cuffs . . . Sunday go to meeting hats on . . . with their Sunday coats . . .  I'd really like someone somewhere to give me the low down on these two.

Might just be actors from some sort of show . . . with their "show" clothes . . . that follow after Marshall Dillon's belt and holster . . . never was one like it on the range . . .

As well . . . those kind of chaps also sewn they way they are across the front would have gotten the rider killed if he slipped forward and it went around the horn of the saddle.

Then as well . . . both are wearing city boy galluses . . . and only the stage actors carried a horse beater whip like each has on his hand . . . to say nothing of the gold watch chain the dude on the left has . . . ostensibly going to his gold watch . . . that  at his age he would not have been able to afford on  a dollar a day and grub.

But who knows.

May God bless,

Dwight

thank you for that information 

[Dwight]

3 hours ago, Davm said:

I thought you wanted to have a period type chaps, so on the zippers, probably not historically correct.  On the fringe, always big arguments but I'd look at some period photos and copy the fringe. Cutting and sewing in the fringe will definately be the hardest part of the job.  

The fringe is not truthfully "hard" . . . just time comsuming.

Make a fringe cutter like this out of 1/16 or 1/8 plexiglass . . . 

I use all three of them . . . but the easiest one to use is the center one.  The black line is the only cut in the plexiglass . . . the rest are just lines allowing me to check my work . . . 

Put down an straight edge to the left . . . shove the back side of the leather even with it . . . lay the  cutter down on top of it . . .  thumb on one side . . . fingers on the other . . .  cut out on the black line . . . 

Move it up or down . . . I usually work down . . . line up the cut with the alignment line in the plexiglass . . . thumb and fingers down . . . cut it.

I can cut out a pretty good sized piece of fringe with this fairly quickly . . . and if you are fairly careful . . . you will have a nice piece of fringe.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

[hickok55]

 

31 minutes ago, Dwight said:

The fringe is not truthfully "hard" . . . just time comsuming.

Make a fringe cutter like this out of 1/16 or 1/8 plexiglass . . . 

I use all three of them . . . but the easiest one to use is the center one.  The black line is the only cut in the plexiglass . . . the rest are just lines allowing me to check my work . . . 

Put down an straight edge to the left . . . shove the back side of the leather even with it . . . lay the  cutter down on top of it . . .  thumb on one side . . . fingers on the other . . .  cut out on the black line . . . 

Move it up or down . . . I usually work down . . . line up the cut with the alignment line in the plexiglass . . . thumb and fingers down . . . cut it.

I can cut out a pretty good sized piece of fringe with this fairly quickly . . . and if you are fairly careful . . . you will have a nice piece of fringe.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

thank you i'll definitely make these. would you say these are work chaps i think they are but i want a second opinion.

Edited February 10, 2022 by hickok55

[fredk]

1 hour ago, Dwight said:

Considering that is a staged pic . . . shined chaps . . . brand new cuffs . . . Sunday go to meeting hats on . . . with their Sunday coats . . .  I'd really like someone somewhere to give me the low down on these two.

A reverse search of the photo just says 'Two Cowboys, Tombstone, Arizona'

Somat for hickok55; never trust these studio photos. The drovers arrived in a town, spent some of their money on getting cleaned up and buying new clothes. Then they went to the local photographer to get a photo made. Sometimes, if the drover wanted to show off he could use 'prop' clothes or weapons that the photographer had. Those two drovers may not have owned those chaps. But I do think they owned those quirts, probably just newly bought down at the Indian Exchange store on the edge of town. The chaps look so similar they look like Sears & Roebuck Catalog ones. I'd need to search for my S&R catalogs from that era to check

Also, back then, a Cow Boy was a ruffian, to call a cattle drover a Cow Boy was a real insult. One of those names or words which has changed its meaning in a hundred years

[tsunkasapa]

I agree with Dwight on the chaps, those are NOT work chaps. Work chaps would just be tied with a thong in the front. If it hooked over the horn it would break, keeping you from getting hung up, drug and killed.

[Dwight]

4 hours ago, fredk said:

Also, back then, a Cow Boy was a ruffian, to call a cattle drover a Cow Boy was a real insult. One of those names or words which has changed its meaning in a hundred years

Not really sure what paperback book you got that out of . . . but all our folks would have been proud to carry the cowboy moniker . . .  

Maybe that was true on the great plains north of London . . . lol

May God bless,

Dwight

[Dwight]

4 hours ago, hickok55 said:

 

thank you i'll definitely make these. would you say these are work chaps i think they are but i want a second opinion.

Honestly . . . never ever saw a pair like that.  

1.  the way the top is laced together . . . unless that was some very easily broken shoe string or something . . . I would never have worn them.  Fact is . . .  I'd a tossed the lacing and put in a leather thong or something similar.  Again . . . that could get ya hurt.

2.  the pockets look normal . .  . and the fringe and the way the fringe is attached . . . yeah . . . OK

3.  the bottom is just too narrow for any I've ever seen . . .  they always flared out . . . but looking at the off side leg . . . looks like a pair of step in chaps . . .  might have been something worn around the ranch when working cattle from the ground . . . help keep ya warm . . .  and the  dried green decoration on the nearest leg would also kind of bear that witness.

May God bless,

Dwight

[fredk]

16 minutes ago, Dwight said:

Not really sure what paperback book you got that out of . . . but all our folks would have been proud to carry the cowboy moniker . . .  

Maybe that was true on the great plains north of London . . . lol

NOT OUT OF SOME DAMNED 'PAPERBACK   '!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT FROM THOSE WHO LIVED THEN AND WROTE THEIR MEMOIRES - NOT JUST ONE OR TWO BUT SEVERAL

HOW DARE YOU YOU OBNOXIOUS GIT

'GREAT PLAINS' NORTH OF LONDON INDEED - YOU ARE NOWT BUT AN IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cattledude]

...lots of experts out there...! Be careful on what you are sure of. Leggins, batwings, shotguns, and chinks are all chaps and have been made & used by what kind the cattledude wanted. Any and all of the chaps in the above photos could have been used by cowboys, therefor they all could be working chaps, if they worked in them...

[LeatherLegion]

8 hours ago, Dwight said:

Considering that is a staged pic . . . shined chaps . . . brand new cuffs . . . Sunday go to meeting hats on . . . with their Sunday coats . . .  

Might just be actors from some sort of show . . . with their "show" clothes . . . that follow after Marshall Dillon's belt and holster 

... those kind of chaps also sewn they way they are across the front would have gotten the rider killed if he slipped forward and it went around the horn of the saddle.

 . . . both are wearing city boy galluses . . . and only the stage actors carried a horse beater whip like each has on his hand . . . to say nothing of the gold watch chain the dude on the left has . . . ostensibly going to his gold watch . . . that  at his age he would not have been able to afford on  a dollar a day and grub.

The only thing i noticed in that picture , was the tall guy's  funny hat ..lol... Any chance you can figure out if  the photographer was right or left handed ?

[Dwight]

3 hours ago, fredk said:

NOT OUT OF SOME DAMNED 'PAPERBACK   '!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT FROM THOSE WHO LIVED THEN AND WROTE THEIR MEMOIRES - NOT JUST ONE OR TWO BUT SEVERAL

HOW DARE YOU YOU OBNOXIOUS GIT

'GREAT PLAINS' NORTH OF LONDON INDEED - YOU ARE NOWT BUT AN IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

But I can spell . . . don't have to scream . . . nor use language not preferable for a full family website.

Grow up . . . will you?

May God bless,

Dwight

[chuck123wapati]

10 hours ago, Dwight said:

But I can spell . . . don't have to scream . . . nor use language not preferable for a full family website.

Grow up . . . will you?

May God bless,

Dwight

i would suggest this book if you are really interested to learn about that portion of our history. Goes into every detail. The most comprehensive book i have ever read.https://www.amazon.com/Great-Plains-Walter-Prescott-Webb/dp/0803297025 

14 hours ago, fredk said:

NOT OUT OF SOME DAMNED 'PAPERBACK   '!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT FROM THOSE WHO LIVED THEN AND WROTE THEIR MEMOIRES - NOT JUST ONE OR TWO BUT SEVERAL

HOW DARE YOU YOU OBNOXIOUS GIT

'GREAT PLAINS' NORTH OF LONDON INDEED - YOU ARE NOWT BUT AN IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

i would suggest this book if you are really interested to learn about that portion of our history. Goes into every detail.  the most comprehensive book i have ever read.https://www.amazon.com/Great-Plains-Walter-Prescott-Webb/dp/0803297025

[chuck123wapati]

21 hours ago, Dwight said:

Considering that is a staged pic . . . shined chaps . . . brand new cuffs . . . Sunday go to meeting hats on . . . with their Sunday coats . . .  I'd really like someone somewhere to give me the low down on these two.

Might just be actors from some sort of show . . . with their "show" clothes . . . that follow after Marshall Dillon's belt and holster . . . never was one like it on the range . . .

As well . . . those kind of chaps also sewn they way they are across the front would have gotten the rider killed if he slipped forward and it went around the horn of the saddle.

Then as well . . . both are wearing city boy galluses . . . and only the stage actors carried a horse beater whip like each has on his hand . . . to say nothing of the gold watch chain the dude on the left has . . . ostensibly going to his gold watch . . . that  at his age he would not have been able to afford on  a dollar a day and grub.

But who knows.

May God bless,

Dwight

Staged pictures like this were very common, photographers would set up at carnivals, dances,  just about any public events here is a picture of my great grand daddy taken in about 1920 from what i can gather. It was taken at t a local happening of some sort. i have found other pictures in the local museum where he lived of the set but none of anyone with his clothes so surmise some or all of them were his own. We used to have the chaps and i put them on  couple of times when i was a kid. I'm sure the artifacts and some of the getup were probably props. If you can enlarge the chaps you can see there are holes to completely tie up the front but only a few are used. My feelings not having actually ever had to wear a pair for work is that they probably didn't lace them all the way for comfort as much as safety, A belt for example could hang up on a saddle horn also but I've never heard of anyone being drug to death while hung up on a saddle horn? you can see how uncomfortable it would be completely tied as compared to one or two ties. My brother just let me know this photo taken pre grandma which is pre 1896.

Edited February 11, 2022 by chuck123wapati

[fredk]

12 hours ago, LeatherLegion said:

Any chance you can figure out if  the photographer was right or left handed ?

If the photograph is a negative/print then the photographer was probably right handed

[Davm]

I know nothing about chaps so I am learning. I wondered why the belt buckle was in back, off hand I figured it ought to be in front.  I also wondered why just a single thing was often seen in front. So. the deal is, the single thong in front is what a working cowboy would want in case he got thrown forward and the front of the chaps hooked over the saddle horn? Is that correct?  On the sew on pockets, do they interfere were riding or are they "Okay"? It would be a convenience to have them. And on the fringe- I'll try the Plexiglas template with the one cut line. My problem with fringe is keeping each strand the same width as the others and not accidentally cutting off a strand at an angle. I can see that keeping everything flat under Plexiglas would be a huge help.  How was the fringe attached? A separate piece sewn in?  Thanks.

[Dwight]

11 minutes ago, Davm said:

I know nothing about chaps so I am learning. I wondered why the belt buckle was in back, off hand I figured it ought to be in front.  I also wondered why just a single thing was often seen in front. So. the deal is, the single thong in front is what a working cowboy would want in case he got thrown forward and the front of the chaps hooked over the saddle horn? Is that correct?  On the sew on pockets, do they interfere were riding or are they "Okay"? It would be a convenience to have them. And on the fringe- I'll try the Plexiglas template with the one cut line. My problem with fringe is keeping each strand the same width as the others and not accidentally cutting off a strand at an angle. I can see that keeping everything flat under Plexiglas would be a huge help.  How was the fringe attached? A separate piece sewn in?  Thanks.

Occasionally . . . the fringe was actually cut into the chap itself.  It was not a separate piece.

But from all I've seen . . . most were cut and then added onto the chaps . . . I guess the idea was either to use up small scrap pieces . . . or to be able to replace torn pieces later on.  

But anyway . . . the chaps go on the bottom . . . the fringe lays on the edge . . . and a long separate piece goes over the top of the edge of the fringe . . . when fastened down . . . it held the fringe in place.

Hope this helps.

May God bless,

Dwight