My Head is going to Explode

[Tequila]

I’ve been doing hobby leather crafting for a few years, hand sewing mostly, and the couple of times I needed a sewing machine I used a Janome 3000-HD.  To say using the Janome was a nightmare is an understatement, it’s a good machine for fabric, and it will sew some leather, but it wasn’t designed for it.  The machine goes too fast and of course I’m very limited on the thickness.  Also, it goes too fast and the stitches are too close together.  So I’ve decided it’s time to buy a sewing machine, but now my head hurts, all the research, all the web videos and articles are just plain overwhelming.  I decided that I want a walking foot machine with a servo motor, but after that things get fuzzy.  The first machine I looked at was the Sailrite machine, then it was a Juke 1541, after that I moved on to a Cowboy and Cobra.  Yesterday morning I thought I was going to buy the Cobra 18 after speaking to David at Leather Machine Co. and going over things.  However, after thinking “buy once cry once” I’m now considering the Cobra 26.  Why?  Well I thought if I buy a Cobra 26 since it’s a cylinder model it would allow me more diversity.  And one person mentioned that you can turn a cylinder machine into a flatbed, but you can’t turn a flatbed into a cylinder machine.  So, am I thinking wrong, am I overthinking this?  The price tag is high and I don’t want to “cry once” so here I am asking those of you with more experience your honest opinion if my thinking is correct and I’m making a good choice. 

Thanks

[Gulrok]

Personally speaking -

I cried twice. Only because I learned later on that I really needed a heavier duty machine. I bought the techsew equivalent of a cobra 26 (2750 pro).

Later on I learned that the majority of the work I do is in fact 10oz or more leather and 277/207 thread. So I have a few thousand in machines now. So first we should be asking - what thread are you using and leather thickness. Make sure you're not buying something too light duty for what you're using.

As far as the Juki 341 and 441 clones - they do convert into a flatbed. Its not exactly the same because if you're sewing bags then you don't have the extra run on the table to hold your bag while you sew length wise. However it is absolutely versatile and not noticeable for small leather goods. As a shop who sells a lot of goods, I'd personally buy two machines a flatbed and a cylinder arm both great for two different things.

However if you can only buy one machine - definitely the cobra 26/techsew 2750/cowboy's model.

 

[JLSleather]

Call Bob at Toledo Industrial Sewing.  He'll git ya what ya need, help you nail down what is going to best fit what you're wanting to do.  And he's much closer to you, so shipping is going to be reduced as well.

866-362-7397

https://www.tolindsewmach.com/

[jrdunn]

+1 for Bob at Toledo Industrial Sewing

[JREESER1]

You are correct about educating yourself about the expensive decisions in choosing and getting the right machine, not for just now but the future. It can be daunting. I think most of the members here, that machine sew, have gone through the very same maze. My first machine was a Sailrite LZ, nearly 15 years ago. It was fairly expensive and was slightly better than hand sewing everything, but it was still not what I had hoped. One flaw was the thicker the material you sewed, the less upper tension you had, because the presser foot height controls the tension feed. And with no servo to slow it down it was always a juggling act to control speed and not ruin seams.

So, I got a Cobra 4P, from Leather Supply Company, WOW! I thought, geez this is my dreams come true. Total speed control and ease of punching through hard, thick leather. It was all I wanted until I started making a lot of wallets, purses, pouches and bags. It still worked well but because the needles were so large the thread choices and stitch locations were hard to completely manage. You have to be very careful about how close the stitches are from the edge without blowing out the holes, with the huge needles.

So, in October I bought a Cobra 26, from Dave at Leather Supply Company, WOW! Now I have upped the quality and my pleasure in putting pieces together. It is much better and faster, and I enjoy the process again. I still have the big machine set up to handle holsters, bullet loops and thick belts, etc., and the 26 for quick stitching, not needing to reset anything for everything else.

Long story short: Talk to dealers like Dave at Leather Machine and all the other dealers that advertise, TechSew and Toledo (Cowboy), on this site they are all straight shooters that care as much about you and your needs as selling you the machines. They want you to come back and to endorse them. I am convinced they strive to make everyone a satisfied customer. I am sure they all will listen and take your needs and wants seriously.

One issue I am sure you will run into is availability. The supply chain problems are plaguing everyone. It could be months to get a Cobra 26 or comparable TechSew or Cowboy (they are all similar or identical units). So, if you decide to get a new machine, decide exactly what you need and get one ordered soon. The longer you wait the farther back in line you wind up and the longer it will take to really enjoy the pride of good, quality crafting.  

[kgg]

4 hours ago, Tequila said:

So, am I thinking wrong, am I overthinking this?

No, you are not over thinking the purchase of a new machine. The cost whether you buy a brand name or a clone is going to be expensive. An example would be the Juki LS-1341 at $3650 US ( //industrialsewingmachineman.com/machines/mach.asp?dir=sewmach&brand=Juki&Model=LS%2D1341&ProductType=Industrial+Straight+Stitch+Machines ) verse the Cowboy CB341 at ~$2400 US ( //www.tolindsewmach.com/cb341.html ) verses the Techsew 2750 at ~$2750 US ( //www.tolindsewmach.com/cb341.html ).

Most of us have gone though this process and have made purchasing mistakes over the years. What I would advise is:

1. Determine what you are sewing mostly and what you would like to sew. Wallets, bags, holsters, saddles.

2. What size of thread you would like to use: V69 or V415.

3. Budget amount.

4. Be willing to travel and make a visit to a dealer with a sample of your stuff and test out various machines. I have a travel radius of about 4 hours for a new machine.

Put your money into a new or good used machine that will suite your sewing needs best. If you are sewing 90 percent of items that are best done on a flatbed then buy a new or good used brand name flatbed machine. You can always pickup a good used cylinder machine to complete the other 10 percent and vise versa. No one machine will do everything. That is why all of us have more then one machine as some machines are better suited to certain tasks.

 

kgg

 

 

[Tequila]

Thanks everyone for all the advice and kind words. 

[Spyros]

I reckon you can do 80-90% of common leatherworking tasks with a cobra class 4 / CB4500 and a narrow throat plate.  If you absolutely must.  And if you're happy to change needles & thread frequently, and make a big flatbed attachment and add/remove it frequently, and fiddle with settings frequently.  It won't be the most convenient, or the fastest, and it will forever be a setup that feels more comfortable/at home with heavier leather, but I reckon you can. 

But ideally you want this, plus a high speed garment flatbed machine, a heavier flatbed, and a post bed. 

And an old Singer. 

And a Chinese patcher.  

As a minimum :D

[Tequila]

9 minutes ago, Spyros said:

I reckon you can do 80-90% of common leatherworking tasks with a cobra class 4 / CB4500 and a narrow throat plate.  If you absolutely must.  And if you're happy to change needles & thread frequently, and make a big flatbed attachment and add/remove it frequently, and fiddle with settings frequently.  It won't be the most convenient, or the fastest, and it will forever be a setup that feels more comfortable/at home with heavier leather, but I reckon you can. 

But ideally you want this, plus a high speed garment flatbed machine, a heavier flatbed, and a post bed. 

And an old Singer. 

And a Chinese patcher.  

As a minimum :D

I wish my pockets were that deep .  Because I usually only work on one piece at a time I don’t think the needle/thread changing will bother me too much (at least I hope not).  I was going to buy the flatbed attachment, my thinking was if it’s too small I’d at least have a template to use to make a bigger table.  

[Spyros]

2 hours ago, Tequila said:

I wish my pockets were that deep .  

Ι'd blow it all on drugs and women personally, but hey LOL

[Rubicon04]

I am currently in the same boat. Started out my research thinking I wanted a class 4 or cb4500 and then after more reading changed to a class 26 / 1341 style machine. Lately with seeing @RockyAussie narrow needle plate and feed dog set, I've been leaning towards the Class 4 / CB4500 again. I figure the majority of my stitching would be in the 8-12oz range, sometimes more, sometimes less. I plan on using 138 thread and would primarily be using the machine to aid in bag making. It seems the narrow needle plate and feed dog set turn these machines into a more versatile option for someone like me that only has the money for one machine. I still plan to handstitch all my small goods and wallets. 

[Tequila]

Well folks I finally made a decision and I’m getting the Cobra 26.  While both the Cowboy 341 and the Cobra are very similar it was the warranty and customer service that made the choice for me.  Both companies had about the same wait time before shipping (2-3 weeks) and the price difference was negligible.  So I guess by this time next month I’ll be asking questions again.  And thanks to everyone who replied. 

[Wizcrafts]

@Tequila

Figure out if your best machine should be flat bed or cylinder arm. flat bed machines are best used on flat items. Cylinder arm machines are best for cylindrical or shaped items which have parts hanging down on the left of the arm. This includes bags, cuffs, some holsters and things that have hardware (rings, buckles, loops) on the bottom. Most cylinder arm machine tables can take a table attachment, or one can be made to fit them, or adapted from another model. Some cylinder arm machines can be ordered on a pedestal stand that is wide open under the arm and has holes for a bolt on table attachment.

Next, define the minimum and maximum thicknesses you expect to sew together and the height of any other seams that the raised feet and needle will have to clear to get to the sewing area. Thinner work, up to about 1/8 inch, requires thin thread (to hide the lockstitch knots) and small needle sizes (diameters) for minimal holes. Thick work (over 1/4 inch) requires thicker thread and larger diameter needles to keep it all together under the stress of usage.

A lot of people are interested in medium duty machines and may try to push them beyond their practical thread handling capacity. When that happens they think the machine is defective, when it is not. If a machine's specs say the maximum thread size is #138, that means top and bottom, as setup at the factory, or the dealership. If you try to use #207 or larger thread, unless the machine has been purposely setup for that size, it may jam in the hook, or cause the leather to lift with the needle, which causes skipped stitches. OTOH, a more heavy duty machine can be dumbed down to sew thinner work with thinner thread and thinner needles. But, it will cost more up front.

[Wizcrafts]

1 minute ago, Tequila said:

Well folks I finally made a decision and I’m getting the Cobra 26.  While both the Cowboy 341 and the Cobra are very similar it was the warranty and customer service that made the choice for me.  Both companies had about the same wait time before shipping (2-3 weeks) and the price difference was negligible.  So I guess by this time next month I’ll be asking questions again.  And thanks to everyone who replied. 

You posted this just before I posted my reply. You made a good choice as long as you stay within the stated specs.

[Tequila]

1 minute ago, Wizcrafts said:

You posted this just before I posted my reply. You made a good choice as long as you stay within the stated specs.

Thanks for the encouragement.  I must say that I’ve been reading a lot of your posts IRT sewing machines, they’ve been very informative, you certainly know your machines 

[Tequila]

Oh I forgot to say that I did add one extra, a flip down roller guide.  The waiting will now begin. 

[VictoryHandcraft]

I’m in the market for my first sewing machine and was wondering how you like your 26?