How is this supposed to look?

[327fed]

I ordered this from Weaver this week. Just rolled it out to cut. This is their pre-dyed holster leather. Advertised to just tool, put together and  oil, An interesting look . Not what I intended for $255 for the side. Is this normal? Will oil cover it up? Yes I am about to email Weaver and I can return it on my shipping dime. I just wondered if I am being overly concerned.  Whatcha think? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JLSleather]

those are fat wrinkles. and that's EXCESSIVE.  Yeah, they'd get that back. With a note asking if this is what I should expect from them all the time, so I can save it next time and just call Cheryl in the first place.

Oh, BTW ... this is natural (undyed), but this is how veg tanned cow SHOULD look ...

Edited February 20, 2022 by JLSleather

[tsunkasapa]

I don't mind them, they add character, like scars and brands. But I won't pay top dollar for sides like that either. At $255, I'd send it back or demand a hefty discount. I'd also tell them that THEY can eat the shipping back.

[327fed]

Thanks guys. I have emailed a picture. That’s why I did not get $89 Tandy double shoulders this time. Similar defect. 

[327fed]

Got a. Email reply from Sylvia at Weaver. She said they had checked their stocks, all had these streaks, they are normal and caused by wrinkles and the dye, especially this color, accentuates this. They said I could return it. Someone else said on the forum earlier today they went to Weaver in person and they had not much stock. The return dept is sending a FedEx return label at Weaver’s expense.  Guess I need a class on dying my own stuff. 

[tsunkasapa]

Your own dye will accentuate them the same way. If you can see it in undyed leather, you will see it when it's dyed. And while it IS a natural thing, it is NOT in/on all sides.

[JayEhl]

On 2/20/2022 at 1:37 PM, JLSleather said:

Oh, BTW ... this is natural (undyed), but this is how veg tanned cow SHOULD look ..

Thanks for sharing that picture.  I only have Tandy stores near me and the wrinkle look is all they seem to have so I thought that was normal. 

[JLSleather]

48 minutes ago, JayEhl said:

e so I thought that was normal. 

TOO COMMON these days, but not "normal" (desirable, or even acceptable).

NO cowhide is without a mark. It is then graded according to defects per square foot, "A" being the best (W/C calls it "standard" grade, and goes down from there).  I've worked with some "B" hides that worked out just fine... those pics above are an A and a B from Hermann Oak (sadly, you have MANY "retailers" selling C and even D and labeling them "B" to those who don't know any better).

Fat wrinkles will be most prominent in the shoulder area, and run "up and down" on the cow.  This puts them the "short" way on a side, and the "long" direction on a double shoulder.  I've used many double shoulders over the years for belts and holsters, even portfolios and bags. Perfectly good leather if you get "the good stuff".

Some of the "retailers" (not a nice word around here) go on and on about how these DEFECTS add "charm and character" to your projects.  But they are DEFECTS, which is why leather suppliers (MAKERS, not the resellers) CHARGE MORE for the hides without this war zone look.  For those CON MEN calling themselves "retail outlets" (and such)... I prefer my leather LESS CHARMING, and since you claim it's beneficial, perhaps I can get a discount on the hides that DONT have that?  Nah - didn't think so ...

[327fed]

Looks like a lot of the heavier sides and double shoulders at Springfield Leather are backordered. They have a bunch of kangaroo however. 

[327fed]

It’s like steak. If you never had a ribeye a chuck wagon tastes OK. 

[JLSleather]

14 hours ago, 327fed said:

It’s like steak. If you never had a ribeye a chuck wagon tastes OK. 

And retailers PRAISE the rough cut, NEVER show you the ribeye.  A couple of "retailers" HERE made a LOT of money by catering to those who DONT KNOW ANY BETTER. 

Kinda simple business plan -- find a place where all the new guys are collected in one spot, and shoot the fish already in the barrel.  In fact, they'll show up on here by the dozen proudly ANNOUNCING they don't know what they need or how to tell the good from the bad.  Like, you see people come to the church for help when they can't pay the rent, or don't have food.  Simple logic.. you go to where there are ALREADY PEOPLE GATHERED who WANT to help you.  Easy pickin's ...

[JLSleather]

16 hours ago, JayEhl said:

Thanks for sharing that picture.  I only have Tandy stores near me and the wrinkle look is all they seem to have so I thought that was normal. 

That is BENDS ... meaning a side but the shoulder and belly area is removed (hence the square cut on one end and the bottom).  In teh right side pic, that's a "B" grade bend (belly and shoulder removed).  Clamp marks on the right side identify that as the SPINE side of the hide.  It's not MARK FREE, but purdy durn close.  And this is a B... I think most "retailers" are selling you "B" but sending "D". 

I have LONG told people it's best to order FROM HERMANN OAK OR WICKETT-CRAIG DIRECTLY.  IF you don't want to buy the minimum 10 sides at H.O. then get together with a few guys in your area and SPLIT an order.  If you order 10, then a BACK (I order with bellies already removed) runs about $185 after shipping.  To be clear, $185-ish gets you that piece in the right side pic AND about 7-ish sq feet of the shoulder not in that pic.

FYI.. I didn't intend it, but I see in that pic ---- under the natural H.O. side is a Wickett-Craig "chestnut" drum dyed tooling leather.  VERY nice.

[327fed]

There are only 3 leatherworkers in my area that I know. One does boots, one does bags. Gabriel will blow his horn before the three of us would use 10 sides of the same stuff. 

[JayEhl]

I wished I knew a few guys in my area that would be willing to go in on something like that....

[JLSleather]

13 minutes ago, JayEhl said:

I wished I knew a few guys in my area that would be willing to go in on something like that....

At the price some of these places are charging for BAD leather, a guy could  buy the GOOD stuff, take his 3 sides, send the other 7 to a couple guys doing leather and STILL get BETTER LEATHER for LESS MONEY (H.O. GRADE A is about $8 per foot, NOT $12, NOT $14....)

Last time I did that, it cost $20 to ship ONE side, but only $50 to ship FIVE sides.

[MikeRock]

Jay,

Any harness makers or saddle makers around  your area?  My Amish buddy up here buys enough HO from the factory that he gets great stuff, and will add my requirements to his order. I pay his invoice prices too!

I'll buy a bit from various suppliers when he does not have an order going in. 

God bless

[alpha2]

On 2/21/2022 at 3:30 PM, JLSleather said:

TOO COMMON these days, but not "normal" (desirable, or even acceptable).

NO cowhide is without a mark. It is then graded according to defects per square foot, "A" being the best (W/C calls it "standard" grade, and goes down from there).  I've worked with some "B" hides that worked out just fine... those pics above are an A and a B from Hermann Oak (sadly, you have MANY "retailers" selling C and even D and labeling them "B" to those who don't know any better).

Fat wrinkles will be most prominent in the shoulder area, and run "up and down" on the cow.  This puts them the "short" way on a side, and the "long" direction on a double shoulder.  I've used many double shoulders over the years for belts and holsters, even portfolios and bags. Perfectly good leather if you get "the good stuff".

Some of the "retailers" (not a nice word around here) go on and on about how these DEFECTS add "charm and character" to your projects.  But they are DEFECTS, which is why leather suppliers (MAKERS, not the resellers) CHARGE MORE for the hides without this war zone look.  For those CON MEN calling themselves "retail outlets" (and such)... I prefer my leather LESS CHARMING, and since you claim it's beneficial, perhaps I can get a discount on the hides that DONT have that?  Nah - didn't think so ...

 "since you claim it's beneficial, perhaps I can get a discount on the hides that DONT have that?  Nah - didn't think so ..."

Oh, man, I want to try that soooo badly! "If it's a value-added (my favorite BS) feature, quote me some of the nasty stuff without the value being added".

[JLSleather]

1 hour ago, alpha2 said:

"If it's a value-added (my favorite BS) feature, quote me some of the nasty stuff without the value being added".

yeah, he gits it

 

[JayEhl]

20 hours ago, JLSleather said:

At the price some of these places are charging for BAD leather, a guy could  buy the GOOD stuff, take his 3 sides, send the other 7 to a couple guys doing leather and STILL get BETTER LEATHER for LESS MONEY (H.O. GRADE A is about $8 per foot, NOT $12, NOT $14....)

Last time I did that, it cost $20 to ship ONE side, but only $50 to ship FIVE sides.

I like this idea, just don't really know anyone who is into leather crafting in my area.   I think there is a guy down in Texas City that makes holsters, though.  Thanks for the idea.  But may i ask,  when ordering in bulk hides, do they all have to be the same weights? 

2 hours ago, MikeRock said:

Any harness makers or saddle makers around  your area? 

I really don't know but another good idea.  I'll have to check the yellow pages, er, internet.

 

[JLSleather]

1 hour ago, JayEhl said:

when ordering in bulk hides, do they all have to be the same weights? 

Unless they changed their 'policy' (I didn't ask), if ordering TEN sides (or in my case backs) they need to be the same weight.  Order 20 or more you can "mix n match".  Now, you might ask 'em, I don't know for a fact that's still the case.

As a rule, I buy 7/8 and 3/4, and if I need occasionally a piece of say 5/6 or 6/7 I can get ONE piece of great Hermann Oak from Cheryl / Carlos at Goliger Leather or as little as ONE hide from Wickett-Craig (the tannage is a little different, but not in a "bad" way  ).  NOTE that buying a single hide from Goliger DOES cost more per foot, plus you're paying shipping on ONE instead of spreading the shipping over multiple hides, BUT I've never got a piece of leather from there I wasn't happy with

 

[JLSleather]

Oh, I have some pieces - black drum dyed, chestnut drum dyed from W/C, and natural from Hermann Oak - big enough for about anything but portfolios or handbags, mostly 7/8 oz, I'll sell for about $2.50 per foot.  Let's be clear, this is BETTER LEATHER than what you're getting from "resellers", and better than what is shown here.

Seriously, $100 get you about 45 square feet.  Firm leather, pieces would work great for holster or sheath makers.  Even the stuff with "marks" is FIRM and SOLID, great for lining exotics - forms well.  I laid it on the floor, covers about 9 feet x 5 feet.  Come pick it up and skip the shipping

You know, just for reference.  I CAN NOT GRASP why people pay $12 AND UP (often more $$) for leather that looks like the pic in the original post.

[JayEhl]

@JLSleather thank you for your sage advice.