WayOutWatty

Murray - As in ATC Murray H. - used to be stationed at NASWI? That pic looks familiar, man - hard to tell with the goatee..

What personal attack? Why am I so upset? Who's upset? I'm offering opinions and asking questions - unless that's not allowed in a sales forum.

Wow "EmbossingDieCompany" you're awfully condescending for someone that asked for opinions. I have idea where the rambling "Evil Empire" stuff came from, but it makes you look pretty unprofessional. I never said anything about hating tandy, but it doesn't take much to realize that their leather isn' the greatest in the world. Since your selling these - but not really selling these - (wink wink) here, I'm sure your intent wasn't to appear rude. That's the problem with not being honest. You said you wanted opinions when you meant to say "buy my product." That's why your feelings got hurt. By the way, I'm still curious, why are these so over-priced? $1.50 in material (at RETAIL) and 5 minutes worth of labor justifies $65? Yikes! And what about the surcharge for non-vector artwork? That's pretty sneaky - the average leatherworker probably doesn't even know what that means. Finally: Arial = Font Ariel = Little Mermaid. Good luck selling your product!

You know, I'm pretty guilty of not posting very much here, I'd rather observe and keep my mouth shut than offend any of the "artisans" around here... That being said, grab a tissue, here comes an opinion: I would never hand one of my clients a piece of leather (business card shaped or not) that didn't represent exactly what I produce. A dairy farmer wouldn't give you a shot of sour milk to try to sell you farm fresh milk and a gourmet chocolatier wouldn't give you a Hershey bar with his business information printed on the wrapper. Why would you want to give a client a piece of leather that doesn't represent your product? I couldn't take myself seriously if I told a guy that his custom seat was going to be $800 and then handed him a hunk of cheap Tandy leather with some Microsoft Word embossing on it. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate how much lasers cost. I'm also pretty familiar with materials and their price points. That being said, there's no way that I would spend $65.00 to make this kind of impression on a client. Business cards are cheap - I'd rather make a neutral impression with a traditional business card than have someone question my craftsmanship based on a gimmick. The OP is right, I don't carry around a box of seats and saddlebags to self-promote in the grocery store, but I sure as hell don't carry around a box of Tandy scraps with my name stamped in them either - that doesn't exactly scream "quality." (I'm off my box - carry on smartly.)

Sorry man, I don't agree. I work by hand. I'm not offended of put out by this machine work at all. That 40 watt laser isn't producing a product that unfairly competes with anything I can do. I can't run a 36" line that's straight without a straight edge - that laser is a tool just like a ruler is. As somebody with a little bit of background in the machine trade and as someone that's spent a large portion of his military career dealing with precision optics, I can guarantee you that there is a whole lot more to the process than printing out a picture on an inkjet. Stitchwizzard posted a project in here just like everyone else in the forum - because it was a method that somebody considers unorthodox we decided to trash what he's doing. That is exactly the kind of elitist "I'm an artist" BS that turns people off on becoming involved in any kind of craftsmanship. For all you know this guy tools better than you do. He may very well tool better than I do, but because he posted something that was created using a tool that you don't own you're getting all butt hurt. Prove me wrong, show me how much of your business he took.. Last I checked, you couldn't buy anything at walmart that was made out of Wickett and Craig english bridle. Every method has a place - I don't know about you, but I can't tool lettering in 1/16th script. If that's something that a customer wants, where else are they going to get it? Just because a method exists that isn't yours doesn't mean that it's garbage..

I know dude! LASERS! WTF? They're like sewing machines or clickers.. Or like guys that buy fiebings dye instead of mixing their own. Not as bad as the guys that don't make their own tools though.. What is the world coming to? It's getting harder and harder for me to find a squaw indian that even *knows* how to chew a hide until it's soft anymore; before you know it I'll have to buy leather that was tanned commercially! Really dude? If you've got nothing better to do than get high and mighty over over a guy using a technique that you don't use you should spend more time at the bench. And for laser use in particular: I don't have $20+k to spend on one, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate it for being cool and different - and I sure as hell can't match what they can do. Neither can you - that's cool enough to be relevant to me..

Wow!! Nice work! Those stencils look awesome! Do you mind sharing your source and letting me know how expensive the were? I do a lot of production stuff and am always trashing my cardboard templates!

Your seats are incredible Dave, and I really like the way that the natural leather looks when it's finished. I came into this project as a biker, not a leather worker; if I had a set of objective eyes I would have probably gone with a finish that was a little more "dependable," but unfortunately it had to be black to go on the bike.. (Weird, yeah, I know.. I can't explain it either..) It certainly hasn't been in service for 6 months, but I've put about 2,400 miles on it (I ride more in a year than most people drive) and it isn't any worse for the wear. I did spend a lot of time dyeing, buffing, redyeing and buffing some more before I sealed the seat. (Conservatively I would guess that I buffed with microfiber towels for 8 or 9 hours total before I was satisfied..) The black and red seemed to be the worst - I ended up with three applications of each before I had something acceptable.. I've never tried Neet Lac, can't say that I've ever even seen it, but I'll keep it in mind if this doesn't work out. I sealed over the Fiebings dyes with diluted resolene applied via airbrush and then gave it a through rubdown with leatherbalm after it dried overnight.. (P.S. - Makes for a pretty slick saddle, I almost ended up on the fender on the first ride!) I won't be able to give the full torture test - we just got our first accumulating snow here and I'm going back overseas before the weather breaks and the salt gets washed away from the roads. Thanks for the advice and the time, it's very cool that someone who works leather as a trade is willing to help out like all of you guys do.. -Watty

Holding up like a champ so far Dave... I should probably be the one asking you how it's going to hold up though - you're one of the reigning kings of seat building here.. -Watty

Thanks Paul.. I started with a LePera seat that I got a smokin' deal on.. ($60 - hard to justify spending time to make a pan for that price..) LePera uses rivets to attach their $0.99 vinyl covers on their seats from the factory. I re-riveted through the existing holes with 1/8" stainless pops. (I know someone is dying to toss me some flack about how you can't do that and make the seat lay right, but it worked out okay for me..) The method that worked well for me was pulling the cover tight, glancing at the hole and then pushing a scribe through the leather.. Rivet slips in - no sweat. The bottom of my seat has felt stretched and glued - but that was more of a personal preference than anything. I didn't take a whole lot of pictures while I was working on the seat - it's pretty hard for me to stop working and remember to do so. Here's what I've got. Like I mentioned in the PM - I used 2/3 for the sides and it stretched and conformed to the compound curves like a champ.. There's a lot of dudes that have been doing this a whole hell of a lot longer than I have, I'm sure they can offer some more advice, but if you need anything, I'll be happy to help with what I can man. -Watty Top carved dyed Lacing with 1/8" kangaroo; 3/8" between rows, slits 1/4" center to center.

What an experience. Thanks to everyone for all of the information put forth on this forum.. This place (and my trial and error) is my sole source of instruction - never would have been able to pull it off on my own.. Here's some pics of my first seat attempt on the bike.. Pretty happy with the way it turned out. Comments and criticism always welcome. I have some close ups somewhere, I'll dig them up if anyone is interested.. -Watty

Not sure if the PM that I tried to send went through or not, but please add me when you have time. Thank you!