Trox

I just bought an Fortuna 121 band knife splitting machine and I'm searching for manual/part list for it. I also have a couple of questions regarding the machine. I wonder how you determine when to change the band knife on it. This is an USM rebuilt machine. However, it's seen some use after that. Blue color with USM badge, new knife and drive belt followed the machine. Current knife is about 2 to 3 mm. narrower than the new one following with the machine. Part from that, the knife looks good. Haven't inspected every inch of it yet. Grind stones look square and blade felts/guides look like they have been replaced, looks fairly new. Haven't opened them up for cleaning yet. I would like to read true a manual before doing more that belt change and cleaning. I would not want to mess up any important settings. So if anybody would like to share some knowledge about this machine or band knife splitters in general, they would be more that welcome to do so. In advance thank you! Tor

I asked to be added last year too, still no answer. I can understand that it is a PIA adding us all. At least it should be someone answering this topic? Thanks Tor

In my post # 323, I'm writing about Pfaffraths plougs. "makes it hard to cut trailer straps" Is should of course only be: "makes it hard to cut straps". My Samsung tablet has a editing program who has a live of its own. It's a PIA to write correctly when it's changing and adding words, rather than editing the words I writes. (Samsung 10,5 Tab with Bluetooth keyboard) Thanks Tor

Thank you Allen! Your pictures were just perfect, but you have to post more later The Germans and Swiss are of course great craftsmen. Just to bad they was to "disciplined" to put their name on the tools they made. I too have some German made tools and they are very well made (however, made of French pattern). I saw your wooden Swiss saddlers clam on the picture gallery, looks good. How a plough gauges cut is mostly depended of the knife position and how it's set up. The distance to the roller and the angle of the knife tip. It has to have a bevel on one side only, to push the material against the guide. And of course the steel quality and it's polish. I like the French ploughs better than the UK made ones, because the knife edge are closer to the roller. The knife on my Blanchard here is very close to the roller and have a slicing angle (pic #1). The UK ones normally came with round knife tips (the old French ones too, according to the catalog pics). This knife is grounded different of the user before me. Still a longer distance from the roller (pic #2). When I'm back on + $ after just buying a new (old) Fortuna band splitter. I will order a new plough blade for the Dixons (fit UK made ploughs) from Knipscield http://www.knipknives.com/leather.php I got one of his draw gauges blades and I am really impressed with it. (I have waited a long time with this order now, just waiting for the Norwegian currency to normalize against the $; to expensive as is) No Cjmt, I am not blessed with owning such Mayer Flamery splitting machine. I believe that Walter have one of them. I think it's based on the one here (pic #3), Spittlers patent from 1888. My version is made by HF. Osborne. In CS. Osbornes old tool catalog, this splitter has the # 83. If you look true Walter's splitter pics posted earlier in this topic, you will perhaps find it. It very nicely made. Walter, it's alway sad to here about another cuttler that is retiring. If you know of more "secret" tool maker who do not live in our time of internet. Please speak up before they close down caused of missing customers or old age. Trends are changing and people are looking for unique old school tools again. Perhaps we can rescue some of them still I know you are a busy man Walter, and time is our worst enemy when we pass the 50´s year of age. It will only fly faster and never the other way around. Did you find time to visit that German old tool maker "the Rossler" to order new puches? If so, did he except your order? It's hard to find good puches today, I'm in the marked for good oval hand punches. Any good tips to me? Thanks Tor

HI, did you look for some downloads for your Adler 68? Here you will find manuals for the old classes not supported by DA anymore. http://sew24.blogspot.no/p/downloads.html They made these machine to good, they will not die. You can ask for a speed reducer from Sieck.de. However, it will make that motor setup to strong, needles will fly and the hook can easily be knocked out of position during sewing errors. That 68 do not have a safety clutch, or does it? I do not think it has. The more training you get, the faster you can go. I could recommend a good little needle position motor from Japanese Hohsing, the G60. I think it's about the same price as the largest Jack motor. However, it's made by one of the leading professional motor companies from Japan, and the needle position works on it of course. Then you have the German Efka motors, I use them on two of my machines, they are expensive but worth every dime. Nice work! Good luck! Tor

Alan, are you using these tools or just collecting them? Myself I started collecting them because current tools are not up to the patch. First I started collecting machines, buying and selling to get a proper machine park. First sewing machines, then all kinds that I needed. My latest is a Fortuna band knife splitter coming this week. When I had the machines I wanted I started collecting old good tools, changing out every economical tool that did not perform well . I too do not use every tool I have, but I do use the best performers. Thanks Tor

I guess I wasn't without words after all Your plough in pic # 3 is also the same as the # 368 in George Lutz´s catalog (last of my pics) Their catalog was identical to S. Blanchards. Keep them coming. Thank you Tor

Hello Alan! Wow, I'm with out words! That's a great collection of plough gauges! I wonder where they all had gone, now I know I recognize most of the makes. There is at least one or two I have never seen before. The last pic before the gloves clam, what does it read? " PARISOTF.LS PARIS" Thats what it looks like to me? The "Portrait Paris" I have seen once before. Nevertheless, it's unusual too. (Mayer Flamery (Fernand Mayer) was copies of the Blanchard tools. He was an old master employed in Simonin Blanchards workshop. He left and took their tool catalog with him. He started his own production copying their tools. Blanchard used the law against him and shut him down. He was allowed to continued produce his splitting machine, who was unique and very popular.) In your picture # 3, I see a plough who is very unusual too. It looks very much like S. Blanchards # 602 in their old catalog. It's an early version of today's Vergez Blanchard model perhaps. I cannot see the maker on in (left in your pic #3) In your pic #5 (image4.jpg) it's an German plough from what Walter describes as the "Horse man" or perhaps "Langenhans". I belive Walter has that same tool, it's missing it's top adj.screw. That glove clam is beautiful, I've seen a drawing of it in the tool dictionary (Dic. of Leather working tools, R.A. Salaman). Perhaps seen one for sale on Ebay a long time ago. You can use it for other leather work too jaws are made of brass and will not stain. You can use some leather around the jaws to eliminate markings. I see you have have several German Pfaffrath plough too (Three of them, bottom your pic # 1) I got one new one too. Mine is made in such way that the knife is pointing to the left, pushing the leather away from the guide. It makes it impossible cut trailer straps with it. I think that is a production error. It also have a little removable peg (guide) on the right side of the knife for cutting in circles. I wonder are yours made like that too. You see the piece that the knife is bolted on to is 2,5 mm thicker in the front that the back; making the knife pointing against the material guide. If it was constructed exactly opposite, it would have preformed well and pressed the material against the guide (not from it like now). I have to put some shims between the blade and the frame to correct this error. Looks like it been made in a hurry. My latest plough is a a J. Dixon screw plough who is a bit different from yours, I wonder how many different models he made. I sorry for the long post, it's such an interesting subject these tools. Thank you for posting! any other tools you would like to share?

Two motors are necessary! With two motors mounted under the table, yes. A constant speed motor for the bell knife shaft and a servo motor connected to the feed roller shaft. The feed roller shaft and the bell knife shaft are connected with a V belt inside the back side of the machine. With a creative placement of the motors (under the table) and the belt slots cut in the table, you can achieve this setup. However, not with a one motor setup only, like some new Fortuna and Italian made skiving machines offers. I would use a small servo motor/ gear motor etc. for the feed roller shaft. You have to do some modefications, like replacing the motor position and cut new belt slots in the table for a start. It's not only to bolt on an extra motor. Tor

What happening here? I'm still not in. Thanks Tor

Thanks, for explaining this in the forum, I know there have been other topics with the same question before. Another question, Just bought bought an older Fortuna band knife splitting machine (rebuilt once). Getting it in the workshop this week. Should be in working order with a new knife. Bought from a recently closed down furniture factory here in Norway. (Do not know the model number yet). However, I think it is a 320 mm. splitting width and bottom feed. If I should need any parts for it later, are you supporting/supplying these machines? Thanks Tor

I meant to say that "He knows all there is about setup of such machines" and not " I knows" as I wrote above.

Good punches are expensive and not alway easy to find these days. I have no experience with the two first Japanese punches. However, it looks like they are constructed with clicker die steel and welded. Same goes for the number five option from Craftool/Tandy, this also can be called a arch punch. The CS Osborne arch punches are well known for their quality. I belive they make both the blade and arch them self, without using any clicker band steel in their contruction. They too are welded and are of course weaker than punches forged from one piece of steel (like the most expensive punches are). Therefore, I belive that the Jeremiah Watt punch" horse shoe brand" should be the best constructed punch of these. I do have many different styles/makes of punches myself, included CSO (both arch and forged), Craftool/Tandy (both with clicking steel and forged). I have not been able to break any of these Craftool punches with clicker steel yet. They have issues, the English style strap punch are often not symmetrical made. (The curve are not similar on both sides, leaving a ugly punched out strap end) They are way to over priced, this should be a economical priced tool same as # one. The only Horse shoe brand tool I have is a saddlers compass, so I cannot speak for the punch quality. Nevertheless, looks to be good tools of good steel. I do have some forged Weaver punches that I like very much. I belive them to be close related to the Horse shoe brand tools, perhaps from the same maker. I would look in to the Horse shoe Brand punches a little more closely. Check the feedback on them. Good luck Tor

I see this is an old topic, did you buy that Fortuna copy. There are many different models of the Fortuna skiving machines, same goes for Italian, Japanese and Chinese machines. There is an Fortuna model with inbuilt clutch for the roller speed. I belive that can be set up with one motor only. Myself I have an Italian machine with three motors in its set up. One for the constant speed of the bell knife, a small inbuilt servo motor for the roller and one motor for the exhaust fan. This machine do not look like a regular Fortuna model either. For those regular Chinese Fortuna clones with bottom feed, I do believe you need two motors. I could be possible to change the belt gear inside them to get a lower feed roller speed related to the bell knife. It looks like some of them have three different pulley sizes inside. You could contact Dan Naegle in Campbell Randall leather machine company http://www.campbell-randall.com/about/contact/ and ask him. I knows all there is about setting up such machines. He sells and service Fortuna and Italian skiving machines. He will tell you what's possible to set up and not. Good luck Tor

Hi Alan, I saw a copy of that Swiss stitching horse sold in a Spanish leather tool site. http://www.curtidoscabezas.com/en/home/826-wooden-pony.html I does not look as good as the original. looks like it's been made of solid wood and not laminated as the original. The quality depends of the locking mechanism and the type of wood used of course. It's a nice tool that Swiss horse. I use an old French sewing clamp for my hand stitching. I do not sew much by hand ( I have enough of sewing machines) However, I am often using it tying off the machine seams. When I get the time and hold of some good thick birch finer (or some other nice materials) I will make one my self. What patent did you use on the locking mechanism. By the way, I look forward to see your plough gauges and other leather tools. The pictures do not have to be perfect, you can also use less pixels in your camera settings to make the pics smaller (pic size 300 to 500 kb is perfect for this site) Thanks Tor

I am aware of this problem and have several customers that have leather eating dogs. Myself, I take care of training my dog not to touch anything in my workshop. The floor in the rest of my home belong to the dogs, but not the kitchen and my workshop belongs 100% to me (and the people). I have also trained them to let go of stuff and not touching food, crap laying around outside etc. (I have a bigger problem such things with my new dog, always hungry she is. And there are people laying out poison here that have killed three dogs lately). The dogs sleep under my work table when I work, never a problem. For customers with leather eating dogs. It helps not to dress the leather with honey smelling oils etc, not using vegtan and rawhide in their gear. I use some Italian chromtan leather making dog equipment for such dogs, for dogs that eat their leather gear. They normally don't won't to bite in their chromtan leach and collars. There are dogs that have learn them self a habit of eating leather that bite even their chromtan gear. These dogs has to be of learned not to touch their gear. There are many methods of doing this, first rewarding methods. (the owners has to take care their leather gear are not left in their car cage too etc.) There is an last way out method with electric current (mild shocks electric collar), same as they use when training them not to run after sheeps, deers and other unwanted issues. That is a method I guarantee will work on unwanted issues. Used by professionals the right way, that is. I have heard a story about it been used the wrong way: They wanted to off learn a dog that was chasing sheeps, and gave the electric shock at the wrong timing. They gave it when the dog was taking a dump, the dog did not ever want to do his toilet again. I don't know if that's a true story. However, my new young dog just loved horses. Just from the start she loved them and wanted to say hello to every horse we met. One day she tried to pass under the electric fence surrounding the horses. She had to check out the fence first and she bite in it of course. That's what dogs do when they checking out stuff, I heard her scream in pain . I guess that must have hurt . Now she is terrified of horses, will not pass them on the road. I have to train her to be around them again, very slowly. Good planning before using any such of-learning electric tools on dogs is recomemnded. Good luck

Hi Simon, I have a knife (French pattern, Cornette) who have the same brand. Walter knows because I asked him here before. And Simon, post a picture when you can. Alan, please post pictures of your many plough gauges. I look forward to see them, for sure. Just remember to keep the size of the pictures under 500 kb each, otherwise they will occur to big on this site. Use a picture resizer or use your email program that automatically resize your pictures when you attach them in a email. Thanks Tor

Thank you Colt, Tandy would not be a reference I would know about. I do not expect them to be as good as old stock, but to be of tempered tool steel and not bend. You are talking about their oval puches? Thanks Tor

Thank you Thor! obviously they aren't for the screw in pliers, stupid of me to think they where. You would not be able to position the tube correctly with out shimming it in. I would have to buy that special revolving plier to fit them. Guess I have to stock up on some new oval hand held small punches. I am a bit skeptical to the new Blanchard ones, I bought a new one that was to soft. perhaps it was just that one punch who was bad tempered. Dixon stopped trading and I have not tried the new Osborne punches (only old stock who are good) It's really difficult to find really good punches today. And small sizes are always more delicate. Thanks for the links, I will check them out properly later. Back to work. Tor

Ha Ha Back to the old sayings... everything that's to good to be true........ I wasted my time reading true four pages just to see this crap A leather work shop need all kinds of different hole punch, I use both hand held punches, pliers (rotary and straight single tube) and press machine. I got to be able to do all kinds of jobs. By the way Thor, where can I buy these oval screw-in rotary tubes. And what kinds of pliers do they fit. I have several different hole punch pliers; old stock US,English and German made. included a unmarked CSO look-a-like that I am very pleased with. Bought secondhand on Ebay, so I do not know where it's made. Thanks Tor

Hi, do you use brass or magnesium plates in your clicker press. I have tried some delerin plastic plates in mine. However, I'm not satisfied with their impression (to deep). The company you are using (Owosso)do they serve overseas customers? And how are they on price. Thanks Tor

A hand held unit would be more versatile, you can use it on larger objects.Tor

I have many different style/types of edge bevelers, my favorite are the old stock Osborne / Gomp fine edgers. Why don't you take a look at what Bruce Johnson selling at his site.Tor

Ever tried Blanchard edger? that's the one tool they make that is not worth spending money on. Stick to US made models on edgers, they work much better. I am talking about edge bevlers and not French edgers.Tor

You could simply buy a finished knife from Blanchard http://www.fineleatherworking.com/leather-tools/indispensable-knife Or https://www.rmleathersupply.com/collections/vergez-blanchard-tools/products/l-indispensible-brass-knife-2-blades Or in Europe http://www.vergez-blanchard.fr/boutique/liste_rayons.cfm Tor