Trox

I found (stole) this picture on Ebay of an interesting Splitting machine modification. I believe it's an CS Osborne # 87 wood bottom splitting machine, or made of an different maker. There are no information about it, it's for sale together with a sewing machine and a lot of leather tools. The wooden base is replaced with this steel stand and it looks as the skiving depth are controlled by a foot pedal. Thought, that is guessing, because this was the only pictures of it. Anyway, I think it deserved some attention here. It will perhaps be for some inspiration to them who has one like it or simmilar. It looks like you can skive and split with this using both hands pulling the leather true. I like this modification. I do not know who made it, but it's a nice job. Tor

I think old leather tools is in a special position to the "patina or not" question, since they still are so useful to many. They are in high demand because of their craftsmanship and quality, they will beat all the new stuff with high margin. For most of the people who looks for them, patina is unwanted. And if they have patina it must be other than rust (if possible). Most of my user stuff are good old stock, a hundred years old and more. I too have a one of these nice Rose knifes laying around, the blade are good but it needs a new handle. I have not found the time to start on it yet, and perhaps because it's have such hard blade the refurbishing has delayed. The blade has an edge and no rust, but it still need to be polished to a high shine and that will take time. I looked at my blade and the stamp is clear and deep, the etched look is because of the rust prosess in the bottom of the stamp. Etching will not be as deep as a stamp. It's an proper stamp like they used before, not some crappy Etching they use now a days. I have a couple of new knifes with Etched stamps and they comes of very easy with some polishing. To all you tool markers of today, learn from the masters. Good old polished carbon steel and proper stamps, forget about these new "Super hard steels". We are going to cut leather with these knifes, not shop hard-wood. The Rose knife is a beautiful knife, I will have to make copy of the original handle. Mine has a non original handle on it now. It's on my non ending list of stuff to do, but I have to move it further up. Good luck with the refurbishing, do not forget to post pictures. Tor

I have an Italian bottom feed Skiving machine, set up with a constant speed bell knife and a small servo motor for the feed roller.(three motors total on the stand: one for the bell knive, one for the feed wheel and one for the exhaust). When I use it for thicker firm vegan leather, I change the stone feed wheel for a steel feed wheel. Then I can skive pretty thick leather on it and it feeds well. On the most common (simplest method) of setting up a skiving machine, they use one motor only, (clutch or servo). This motor will then propel both the feed wheel and the feed roller, when you slow down for better control then the bell knives runs slower too. It an advantage with an constant speed bell knive, it will simply be easier to use and skive better (perfect speed all the time). I think that any "fortuna" type of skiving machine can be set up like this. Mine came like that from the builder and have a small internal servo motor for the feed roller. A top and bottom feed will be a better choice for heavier leather, these are more expensive of course. The same set up with two motors would be best choice for that machine type as well. Then you can skive as slow as you want to until you master the machine. These machines has a pretty step learning curve, so anything that can make them easier to use its worth paying for. The most difficult task with all these machines are the adjustments, if you do not buy a new computerized machine that is. It will take some trial and errors (and a lot of test material) to get it right no matter where it comes from. Search the forum, try to do it with Google for more result. There are info about these machines here somewhere, not much but it is some. The trick is to keep the bell knife sharp at all time, without any burrs on the inside of the knife. Ask me/us when you get your machine in shop. The Italians where the leading country in making leather machine in the last half century, now it's the time of the Chinese. Most of the new stuff are made there if we like it or not, that is the case. These machines are not rocket science, I would not be afraid to buy an Chinese skiving machine today, I have an Chinese 441 machine I am happy with and some other equipment too. They have made these machine in China for some time now. It's all about how many hours a day you will use the machine. If it should run in a factory all day long, then buy an new Italian/German machine. If not, you will not be able to break one in a small leather workshop. Buy Chinese from a dealer who offers support, I am sure you will be asking questions no matter where it's from. Good luck! Tor

Use plastic bottle/jar and top up with as less air in them as possible. I use rubber gloves over the lids to make the absolutely air tight. Tor

Please add me too. Thanks Tor

I use Bontex and a other similar brand (I don't remember the name), it has glue on and you Iron it to the leather/fabrics. Tor

That's way I started to use the Giardini max edge paint http://www.leatheredgepaint.com/ instead, it will apply to anything and stay there. I highly recommend you to try the free sample from them (that it's a big sample). I bought the little machine in the picture and a hand roller applicator too. The little machine works great and are very easy to clean, rinse in water only. You can adjust the amount of paint applied with this and the wheel are constructed the same way as on Profesional edge paint machines. The top gloss paint used over as an final protecting layer (Matt or glossy) can take very much mechanical stress. I have also tried it on top of Fibings edge paint and that worked well too. The problem with Fibings is that it's used after the edge are burished, then it will not stick good enough to the smooth edge. It comes off very easy like all (normal)paint will. Perhaps it would be an idea to using it like the Giardini paint on a raw edge. Round the edge but do not burnish, apply the paint and then burnish or heat treat the edge afterwards. Then it will stick better to the edge. Or perhaps burnish and ruff the edge a bit with sand paper so the paint sticks better. I have not tried these last two methods (with Fibings) myself, but I will when I got the time for it. I am currently using the above Italian pro edge paint and have no need for anything else. Another good thing with this paint, you can order how much/little you like (minimum 250 ml bottle). You can even order your own custom color. You get it in modern fancy neon colors with silver flakes if you need it, you name it....... So far I am very happy with it, it's a big step forwards from the traditional methods I used before; try it out. Before I bought this new paint system, I applied Fibings with a small piece of sponge attached to a clothespin. That is a good a cheap method to apply thin floating edge paint like that. It will not work on the modern polymers paint as it is very dense, it's applied to a Un rounded leather edge and makes a round finish edge. Tor PS. No I do not work for them, just happy with it.

Hi Constabulary, Thanks for your review of the Jack servo. But do not forget to mention what machine type you use it on. 750 Watt together with a speed reducer will normally create enough torque for an heavy stitcher. But Watt is not the same as torque (Nm), but an top speed measurment, effect. In my case the Cobra motor is used on a Pfaff 345 (medium tripple feed machine) and in action to a 3:1 reducer too. Then it's actually to strong for the machine, because it has no safety clutch and can knock it out of timing when a accident happen. It do not matter if the Jack servo don't have lower max top-speed setting than 200 rpm, if the low speed control on the pedal is good. It should be more than enough motor for an medium machine of the upholstery class with out the use of an speed reducer, is it? It comes both with and without needle position, does it not. Tor

Hi, I once had the same problem with my 600 W (220v single) Cobra servo motor. Then they sent us an fix, a small black tape piece in an envelope. I put the tape bit in place and the servo worked just fine. Very good low speed control, but I lost some of the top speed. That must have been a couple of years ago now, but it still work fine; no changes yet. The Cobra motor looks very similar to the motor in the video (different color only). I remember it was very sensitive to the color shades on the paper modification I tried before the fix arived. With lighter color, more top speed and less low speed control. So the best fix for the optical sensor is something dark that reflect less light. I just wanted to mention that the fix worked fine for me. However it will not help for the motor in question here, with the magnetic speed control. Perhaps posting some pictures will help, there might be similar motors out there of other brands that work fine (or worse). That's likely since it's a Chinese product. It will also help others to know what to stay away from in the future. We should have a topic about different motors, where we could compare them to each other. That would be very helpful for the future. Thanks Tor

This machine has an inbuilt bobbin winder and inside it you will find a black rubber O ring that perhaps need to be changed. It's been some time since I looked in to my own 267-373, I never had any trouble with it. But the winder is adjustable, if I remember it correctly. You will find the service manual in the download section https://www.duerkopp-adler.com/en/main/Support/downloads/index.html?action=search&prop0=%2Fcommons%2Fdownload%2Fpublic%2F267%2F&prop1= My machine came with an extra such black rubber O ring, so I guess it's a normal "wear" part. If the O ring is worn out it will be to small and will not make proper contact with the shaft, the result will be like yours. Check it out. Good luck! Tor

If you need some aftermarket Pfaff parts (less expensive) to modify you can buy them here http://www.kwokhing.com/pfaff/ Original Pfaff parts are expensive and too expensive to do experiments on. Tor

I did not realize that this was an old topic, I guess brass stamps is more hot today. They heat better than magnesium and you can get them pretty cheap. Anyway 40$ for a magnesium maker stamp is not bad. Tor

Hi, what material is this stamp made of, is it of magnesium? Will it work well heated? I too have a delerin stamp and had it for years now. It's durable but it does not leave a very deep impression. It's too small with to many letters on it (that's my own fault) and I have the same problems as Timbo has with centering. Tor

On those Tandy french edgers the safety iron on both sides of the blade are often of uneven thickness and to thick. I remember I had to to take of material on both sides of it before I polished it on my buffing wheel. I took off all the blacking on it and it performed pretty well after that. I bet you could even polished it on your stropping board, that black color comes of easy. Any top side burr´s you can remove with an small ceramic stone or anything else you have laying around. Its not a difficult job, because its not very hard steel. You can afford buying a new one if you f#### it up the first time. If you use a magnifying glass on it you will see if it has any burr on the edge (if you do not feel any and it still will not cut good). You will also see how ruff the steel surface is when its not polished, then you understand why it will not glide true the leather. It has to be sharp as an skiving knife, but this steel is much softer. Its normally an easy job.

To make a groove with an edge beveler work only on very light weight leather. Leather you are able to make a sharp outside (90 degree) bend on (Flesh side out). I think your leather are to thick and stiff to use that method. And you must remember to polish/strop your edger first too. I polish mine on the edge of my stroping board. On that thickness you must use an V gouge down to aprox half the thickness of the material and skive away material on each side of the gouge to make the "V" wider. Wet with some water and fold it up nicely.

Well I use old CS, HF Osborne and new Ron´s tools. They are all good. Most of the old stuff of french edgers are good, English makers call them skirt shaves I believe. You better get different sizes at least a couple (big and small) They are useful on a variety of different tasks, from skiving, making miter joints to setting snaps in thick material (skive away material around a hole when the leather are to thick). I would not know how do without them. In fact I never was without one, I first bought an cheap tandy tool that I polished an modified. Then later I changed that out for a better tool. However, the tandy tool worked well after modifying. I think they where called craftool or the leather factory when I bought my first french edger. Perhaps they used better steel than today and perhaps not. Soft steel gets sharp and thats what a french edger have to be. You do not cut in to a cutting board with an french edger and thats perhaps the reason the cheap tool worked pretty well. They come in both straight and curved bottoms, but they do the same job. I see Bruce sell them from 50 to 100$ for good old ones, they always been of the most expensive among the edgers. Tor

Hi Simon, adjustable V gouges has been around for many years. I cannot date the tool, but for sure before 2WWW. CS Osbore # 128 is such tool I use, then I follow up on each side of the V gouge with an french edger. I remove material on each side so the leather will fold easier. The V gouge only do half the job, you got to follow up with a french edger or simmilar tool to remove enough material. (make the gouge wider). On light weight leather you can also the gouge with a normal edge beveler. You fold the leather over the edge of your working table with the flesh side out. Then you run your edge bevler over the bend and it will create the gouge. This method its safer on light weight leather. Tor

Every thing was better before, I have a old Adler class 5-27 from the 1930'ties who still is like new. However it's no point in making machines that last a 100 years, what will Gregg and the other dealer' live of then? I guess the sewing machine technology will move a little faster this century than the last. 50 years between every new model will be bad for business.

My mistake, I guess that was to cheap. But that proves my point, 7000$ for the new 969 H is good price.

I see that Andreas with Sieck international Germany sell this machine (new) for about half the price 7224,- US$ of what Weaver wants for it http://www.sieck.de/en/machines/sewing/new-saddlery-sewing-machines/details/5741/. It does not look to be a Eco model either, (I cannot tell the different between them by the subclass number). Anyway, this is a huge price difference. I do not remember the suggested retail price for it, I only knows its very expensive in Norway (like everything else around here). However, a new 205-370 is around 5000 $, and this is twice the machine. I think they will begin to sell when the price comes down to a "normal" level, perhaps after a year or two. Somebody is taking a huge profit when its possible to sell them for 7000 $, thats for sure. Tor

The need is there but the funds aren't

Its always the cheapest option, no need for a test:)

http://www.usacuttingdie.com/home.html

Please post another pic of your finished modification. Thanks Tor

Job well done Jimi, looks very good. Old Pfaff machines are good refurbishing objects because of there excellent steel quality and craftsmanship. The only negative side to it is expensive spare parts.