Trox

My 345 has a binding feed, the bottom transporter (feed dog) goes back and forth only. (to power the synchronized binder) When I use the machine for other stuff I changes the feed dog and needle plate. Then I lower the feed dog a bit under the plate or else it disturb the feed. Then you have top and needle feed left, bottom feed is not much used on leather anyway. When you use smooth feed dog and feet`s the needle does most of the feeding anyway. The machine perform good on regular leather work. Tor

Yes Peter, it makes sence now and it was my first guess too. I did not recognize the kind of front it has. Nice machine, it may come in handy sometimes. You never know what the future jobs brings. No I am not thinking about your Adler, I will find one here eventually. I have seen many nice 69- 373 with the narrow cylinder. Those are handy but would not replace the 345 (cannot take heavy threads), and no room to keep both machines. I will wait to I find a nice 169 or newer, then I would look in to it. I am talking about exporting many machines at once. Transport costs are very low these days, I would wait until I had a 20 foot container full before shipping by sea. Motors are different we use 220/50 cyl (and maybe moving up to 380/400 in the future for normal household, our three phase is 400v). I do not see motors as a problem, clutch motors would be changed for servos anyway. If a machine should happen to have a modern Efka DC I would buy on a converter. Otherwise, both tables and motors are cheap in your country. They do not sell those cheap Chinese servo`s here, I bought the one I have from Cobra. Up until now the Chinese have been behind on motor technology, my guess is that they are working hard to catch up with Japan and Germany. I have seen several new model who looks promising, they look like clones of Efka and Ho Sing. And they may well be, there systems are old enough to be legal to copy and they are put together in China anyway. http://www.cccme.org.cn/shop/cccme3825/offerinfo-1033966.aspx http://www.cccme.org.cn/shop/cccme3825/offerinfo-1033976.aspx No way to tell before trying one. Soon there will be usable cheap motors available, no point in shipping those old heavy outdated motors anyway. The converter cost more than a Chinese servo does. I am just thinking out load, its a pity to waist all those nice old machines if someone need them other places. We will see what the future brings, if only the world will get out of this stupid economical crisis people will start buying stuff again. Cheers Tor

Hi Peter, Thanks for the explanation of the routering, I would love to see a pic of that fly- cutter machine. I did not see these machine pictures before after I posted the last post. That 169 looks very nice, I would have sold my grand mother to get my hands of it (if I had one, I don't). It have a stop motor too, I know we would work out a trade if we was not that far apart. I hope we do not totally take over this topic, I know we do. But please tell us to leave and we will. Many nice other machines there too. The Omac machine; first I thought of a belt folding machine, but it have no attachment on the front. I guess it is a hot roller press machine. I can see the press lever on the left and the red light who lights up when it is warm enough, just a guess. I know the brand, its Italian and commonly found here in Europe too. That Adler 169 looks very clean, I got to figure out some reasonable shipping options between here and the States. Her I cannot get much for second hand machines, but in your country I can. Most of my tools and parts I have to buy in USA. I already have a US shipping address, its a New Jersey mailbox run by a Norwegian company. I use it when I buy tools from you, where the sellers do not offer international shipping. I have to pay a bit more this way, but at least I get what I want. I have to check how to ship reasonable the other direction, I will work on it. I am sure there are some methods that can be used without loosing all the profit. OK we talk later have a nice day Tor

That looks good, nice price too. I know where it is too, I have been a truck driver driving a steady route Holland -Norway for several years (many years ago). Nice to drive in your country. Nice and flat, only had to change gear twice from German border to Amsterdam (with a 40 tons load). I still remember all the street and route names down there, much better than I know them in my own city , Oslo (Norway). Very nice people, good food. I love Holland and I have many friends around Utrecht and Alphen aan den rijn. I have not been down there on almost 20 years now, I guess much is changed. Maybe not, the Dutch are good in keeping their culture, houses and tradition. Tot Ziens

Hi Asley, As I wrote before the DA information says they stopped to produce it in 1961. Then I do not know how many years they need to have a spare part program, I guess max 30 years. The only way to find out is to ask Thomas Brinkhoff or Dürkopp Adler, I would ask Thomas on his blog because he knows for sure. It would me smart to use a postbed with a table attachment, but I would look for a triple feed. Or a triple roller feed that is very common among post beds. I have one Pfaff for sale, its only a single needle (and in Norway). It has top and bottom roller feed and needle feed, Efka variostop motor. Maybe a regular triple feed would perform better over large padded seams. Yes its important that you can get parts for a machine, if not the value goes down on it. Check with http://sew24.blogspot.no/p/downloads.html Good luck Tor

The part about " the parts are not expensive" is true if you buy them from other than Pfaff. Binder parts to the Pfaff 345 ( who are very similar, only have a thicker arm and vertical hook) costs 1953,- $ bought at Pfaff. Thats what I call expensive, I do not know what you think. Pfaff parts that is in production on new machines may be cheaper because they are probably made in China. Kwokhing is a good source as mention above. I think a sewing machine mechanic who used 15 minutes to change the binder parts on a pfaff 335 would get sacked, I would make it in three. I am not trying to be a smart ass here, but its is really not that much work . Its not ideal but you can use it for other things with the binding plate and feets on, just take of the binder. Wiz are correct, you buy them as individual parts as well as kits. Tor

I do not know this particular class of machine, but Dürkopp (later Dürkopp Adler "DA" in 1990) makes the world greatest sewing machines in my opinion. I can tell by the picture this is a double needle,bottom and needle feed post bed with a position motor. It looks to be in good condition, black color would take it back to before 1960. I am guessing about 1950 to 1960, only guessing. However, it was discontinued in 1961. It is German quality on material that you will not find on any machine today. It wold be good on making leather pillows in softer upholstery leather and fabric. Not good on different levels, this type of feed do not climb well. This subclass (-1) is listed in "DA" export lists as a post bed for general work, it means its not intended for a particular job as many machines was in that time. I do not know what you want to use it for, it do not have triple feed, nor will it sew very thick materials either. I guess TKT 20 (polyester) would be the definite maximum in thread size, it uses needle system 797. Post beds do not general take very thick threads, so maybe TKT 40 would be its max, I do not know. I do not think there are any parts available for it anymore, other than aftermarket hooks and such. The only way to find out for sure is to ask DA. You can also contact Thomas Brinkhoff Head of DA spare parts on his blog; http://sew24.blogspot.no/p/downloads.html "The world of Dürkopp Adler parts". He would know for sure. If it is any down loads ready for it you will also find it there. Good luck. Tor

Hi Peter, Thats the only thing who is left of the industry here too, awning, furniture and auto upholsteries. I am a trained car mechanic and have worked with that before, so auto upholstery should be right in the spot for me. However, I find no pleasure in it, I kind of got an overdose of cars in my younger days. You could always find me under a car, thats where my friends first looked after me when they come to visit. Now its all computers, components changing and plastic.... I wish I lived hundred years ago when steel was steel and wood was wood, and not made of plastic. Speak about plastic, today I went down to the plastic company and checked out the stuff my self. I turned out they did not make the stuff here anymore, they could do it but it would be to expensive. It looks like the boards sold in the USA has Rockwell scale of hardness, here they used something else (like always). However, the stuff was very hard and I bought one for the machine and thinner one for my work bench. He told me the color had nothing to do with the harness. They used to sell them to butcher stores, the red was for meat, the white for fish and so on. I bought the HD 500, it came in one grade harder too; the HD 1000. They did not have the HD 1000 in stock, I will try this out first and upgrade later if necessary. How do you keep them planed flat, do you plan them with a machine? Want it just stick to the blade? Yes the Italians makes most of the leather machines now a days. I have a Italian skiving machine that is very nicely made. The European leather machine dealers go to Italy all the time to buy machines, they make good deals down there right now (its hard times in southern Europe right now). This dealer sells used German and Italian machines and the prices are high. http://www.sieck.de/en/sieck-international/ We and the Germans are about the two only European countries who is not affected by the economical crisis. I hope for better time soon or else the center of Europe Will be named Oslo, they mass immigrates here to work. Also the ones who do not intend to work comes here to live on us as beggars. They now try to forbid begging in Oslo, the politicians will not have their conscience tested every day when they walk to work. The way I see it , you cannot forbid someone to beg, it easier to stop them on the border and demand they have enough money to support them self while they are here. Thats the way they do it everywhere else, but here they are to stupid to figure it out. We talk later, Tor

Hi, I have never seen a 545 for over 500$ here. If so it would be at Amatec, the dealer. They want to sell new machines so they turn up the used prices. Flatbed triple feed Pfaff, Adler and Singer are sold very cheap here because there are no demand for them. No industry left, no craftsmen left here anymore. We produce oil,fish, aluminum and some other raw material. Nobody can afford to pay for producing anything here anymore. The only machines you can get any money for are heavy stitcher's, and triple feed cylinder beds. People who want to repair their horse tack are looking for them. The binder who is on the machine now is one I bought from Kwokhing. I am not finish setting it up, I still miss the Binder plate. I have the binder feed dog who is 10 mm wide. I have ordered a plate from Kwokhing with 10 mm slot, I am cutting out the rest from it to allow the movement of the syncro bar. I do not want to cut in a original Pfaff plate, I have never seen a needle plate that hard before. I do not think I have any thing that will cut in it, without ruin the steel tempering. A plate from Kwokhing costs only 54 $, I believe it will be much easier to cut in than the Pfaff plate. I will be using the binders for both leather, polyester and vinyl. I sometimes do some furnishing and car upholstery too. I can use them on both the Pfaff and the Adler flatbed machine. A second hand binder from Amatec was 100$ and new from Kwokhing is 10 $ each. Talking about the stone age, I am currently setting up my newly acquired 1953 mod Sandt clicking machine. It is a German Electromechanical swing arm clicker, I am installing a frequency converter because I have only single phase current in my work shop. I also need to a new polyethylene board on top of the old wooden cutting block, the wood is not hard enough. Used clicking machines are hard to find over here. This was for sale to 1000 $ two years ago, now I got it for free because the owner was forced to find a new job. He could not support him self on the leather work anymore, and the clicker was left behind in the workshop and needed to be moved out. I could have it for free if I removed it. It was a tough job to get it in to my little workshop, we was four guys but I nearly broke my back on it. I guess the weight is about 450 kg. It was a sad story the seller had to leave his dream, he has a small workshop in his home still. I decided to give him a discount on a heavy stitcher, he needs a machine for heavy threads and I have three for sale. You see on the picture, it no hydraulic on this machine and it is built like a German Tiger tank. Now I only have to find the right density polyethylene board for it and I am good to go. I maybe giving it a touch of hamerite paint too. You would not happen to know anything about clicking machine boards? It would be easy to just buy one in your country. However the shipping will be three times the board alone (300 $). There is a company making polyethylene here in Oslo (it is a Oil related product). They offered me a white high density 500 polyethylene plate, the size of the board and one inch thick ( about 100 $). I do not know anything about the hardness grading of polyethylene, I would not want to buy something to soft. It would make the dies stick in the board as they do in the wood after a bit. I have topic in Leather tool about it, but nobody seems to know anything or want to answer it anyway. About marketing, I have a friend who has a moving company. He used Google adwards ( pay for click on demands), you only pay for the customers who click on you ad. Not like putting your ad on TV or a news paper, then you must pay for all people. He told me this was the best he could get for the money. The more people who are clicking on your add, the more money you make too. They are seeking your service, and are potential your future clients. He made it up successful in a very competitive business. Tor

Its a copy of the Keystone and Osborne # 84. Both Tandy and Heritage makes copies of that. I heard it was some problem with the handle, it would not lock (I am not sure which one of them it was). Why not take a look at the original Campbell Randall splitter http://www.campbell-randall.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=1_143&product_id=13842 It cost 545 $, thats not much more and its a real deal. http://campbell-bosworth.com/articles/Splitting-Machines.pdf I have several splitters but not a 84, if I am buying a new pull true splitter this is the one I would buy. Tor

Thats a wise choice, good luck. Tor

Well, I do have many sewing machines, but i also hand sew. The customer has a choice, he get what he pays for. I use a French sewing clamp two needles and a very sharp diamond awl. I sew one stitch at the time (the American way), pre punch and the holes closes before you can sew in them. If you make you holes big enough to be able to prepunch, you make them to big and your stitches become to loose. Thats why prepuncing will not work well on heavy leather. I know people who will sew faster than that machine with a much better stitch, doing it the right way. It pays to do the job without cutting any corners, thats why I made that joke. And there are allot of non electrical tools out there from before. This will nor save you time or energy. On soft leather you can buy a 30 $ old Iron domestic Singer and attach a roller foot and you are good to go. Traveling; bring 30 $ and a roller-foot; you find those Singers everywhere.

That would be the CM Cerliani hooks. Those parts you bought was very cheap, nothing is made in Europe anymore. Apart from parts that is not in use on new machines anymore. A binder needle plate for the 345 costs 950 $, and all the syncro binding parts together costs 1887 $ (genuine Pfaff). These parts are hand made in Germany. I only paid 500 $ for the old machine, so I think that was a bit much to use on a old machine.(Upholstery type triple feed are very cheap here, because nobody need them anymore. Dealer only want to sell new machines) Luckily a friend gave all those binder parts for free, he had them laying around after a machine he had sold. That kind of answering your question, if those parts you bought was made in Germany they would have cost you much more. Most of the German machines are now made in China anyway, some DA and Pfaff classes might be made other places. It way to expensive to produce them in Europe or in the USA. And when the owners mostly are Chinese too, they will be made at the lowest cost. However, they are still made to German spec and the company name and support are behind it. I have A Chinese machine and I have not had any problem with it yet. With the kind of hours my machines get (one man shop), I could do well with only Chinese machines. And just buy a new one when the trouble started. When it comes to Kwokhing, I find their stuff surprisingly well made. Everybody uses their drop-down guides, they sell for 100 to 150$ on Ebay and by US dealers. I pay 25 $ for them and they are very good, in fact this company has the best solutions on guides available. Pfaff and Adler feet`s 10 - 15 $ and again very innovative solutions. One out of ten has a minor molding excess or other minor fault. To that price I can live with it. And the best thing, these guys give you top service when you buy small amounts too. Normally they serve big factories and dealer, but they find it interesting to have contact with the people who use their stuff too. I would have traded you my 345 for that Adler 169 any day, my Pfaff is in good working condition. I feel the same way, I know the Adler machine better. I have parts and knowledge about them. My 345 has (bla...bla....bla.......etc): a Cobra servo, speed reducer, drop-down guide (roller and straight) and binder feed. Comes with Original syncro binder gear and all kinds of different feet`s ( about 15 different). Binder plate and regular plate. Smooth, binder and regular feed dog, extra hook and bobbin cases.... you name it. Only thing I do not like is the stand, its only a cut out. Thats temporary, I will make an other stand with short table. I think I will use a one column, because I need the space. I have just adjusted it and it sews as a champ (all parameters). But the Shipping would be a killer, maybe head only. I still think it will be to much. Thanks Tor

Hi, thats the first time I have seen a picture of a 205-6. You will not be able to break that one, its built like a tank. Here you see a better pic (a bit better anyway) of the CB harness foot. Yes you got it right, thats the square bottom end of the presser bar. I do not think other than DA will sell you that spring, if any at all. I think you must buy a new roulette roller presser foot. Alternatively, just find a Little piece thin spring metal and drill a hole in one end. Then heat it and bend the other end slightly. You can use a thin metal saw blade HHS grade (grind of the teeth). You see on the pic how it works, it should be easy to make. You can also buy a foot like this (pic) at the same place and to about the same price as the other foot. I bought it from him, http://www.tolindsewmach.com/, he is a member here. Cowboy Bob, he normally reads all the sewing machine related topics. The foot you have will fit your machine better that this aftermarket one, so take my advice and fix it. If you are going to use old Adler machines you must be prepared to customize your own sewing feet`s. Not much are available for these anymore, you can do it. Good luck Tor

Hi, most of the German machines here comes with Rotan (Pfaff) and Efka (for DA) needle position motors. The latest Efka 1550 DC motor is so small you can place it inside the new DA M types machines (367, 867 machines). They place it in direct drive on the main shaft (behind the clutch) and have the control box under the table. The new system do not need the position head on the flywheel this way, all calculating on stop/start etc is done in the control box. The position head is only used to calculate belt slippage with use of a traditional V belt under table mounting. The motor is 8 Nm torque and up to 1800 W of power, all parameter are adjustable on the box or in your computer if you want too. You do not need any speed reducer, and I only use half the power of it on my 441 machine. You can of course built on everything you like. I have Efka`s from the 1980`s that still works perfect. Is a bit pricey, but no need of a speed reducer saves you some bucks. I paid 840 $ for mine in Germany, and Efka support you free on Skype video call if you need help setting it up. Some dealer had sent me the wrong control box ( not the Efka company, but a company who sold them) and he did not answer my call when I wanted a new box. I called the German Efka and they sat down with me and reprogramming the control box on Skype. The box was for a DA 205-370 and had no parameters for my 441 Juki clone. He told me; "no matter where you bought you motor, as long as it is typed EFKA on it; its my job to help you until the machine sews as you want it to do". Then I understand why I have to pay a bit more $, it has great low speed control too. You get spoiled on them and work goes much faster. You have to pay 500 $ for a Chinese pos motor too. No, get a Efka or a HO Sing you will not regret it. One of the advantages is the option you have to built further on a system later. When you have new needs you can add on a solenoid, air pneumatic or step-motor (possibility to drive several step motors on your motor control), then you can meet all future demands. You can transform an old 545 to a hyper modern machine this way. I do not work for Efka, I just love a good tool. I like Pfaff machines too, but they have a very high spare part price. More than twice the prices of DA over here. You maybe buy aftermarket parts like hooks and feet's? I buy most of my feet`s and binders from Hong Kong ; Kwokhing.com, do you know them. Very good prices, they make every attachment related to sewing and take paypal. Check them out. Ok Later Tor

Here is a pic of the Cowboy 2500 narrow harness foot that also fit the Adler. It is 10 mm wide and have a inside key width of 8,4 mm. ( to 8,5). The presser bar of my Adler 204-64 i about 7,5 mm, so the foot is a bit to big but thats no problem. When you tighten up the screw its no play in it. Cowboy bob ( Bob Kowar on Toledo Industrial sewing machine) sold me this one for about 50 to 60 $. Cowboy Bob is his member name here. I attach a bad picture of it on the Cowboy machine.

Yes that is the one, take of the roller foot and measure the square part of the bar its mounted on. I do not think Adler made a unique presser bar for the - 6 subclass. I am pretty sure they have used the same as on the subclass -64, and on other machines with similar feed system. I have three different big Adler and they all use the same feet. The only ones that are different is the jump foot, sub cl.- 8. And the triple feed sub cl.`s - 74, - 374 and - 370. All the other class`s: 4, 5, 104, 105, 204 and 205 feet`s will fit on your presser bar. I am 99 % sure of this. Then if they will be any useful to you is an other matter. They can be of different length, but that does not matter either. Some are segregated, feeding feet`s. You cannot use them without grinding them smooth first (because of the passive presser bar). Do you only have the roller foot for your machine? One foot DA still stock is the regular -64 foot, however it is very expensive and to wide. What are you going to sew, use the foot (feet`s) for.

I could give you 55 $ for them. You must remember they are made for you, I buy it because I may need it sometimes later. Thanks Tor

I am sorry, its maybe a bad joke. I only pointed to the fact that the sewing machine already is invented. I could probably also sell you one if we was not so far apart, I am based in Norway.

Hello, I am in need of a poly clicker board for my old Sandt clicking machine. The machine have a thick steel framed wooden board cutting surface. Several used ones came with the machine, and they are no good. It would be easy to purchase new poly board in the USA. However, the shipping will be three times the price of the board. Plastic is one thing we still have production in Norway (its made by oil), so I can get one here if I knew what to look for. I checked around and a company offered me Hight density 500 polyethylene. Would this work well for leather (all kinds) or what grade do I need? I can raise the cutting board high enough to replace the wooden block with a poly board. However, then the board will be on its top threads and it looks a bit scary. Thats why I plan to level the wood and put the poly on the top of it. What thickness do I need on this polyboard when I use wood underneath. Would one inch do the trick? The cutting surface is fourteen by eighteen inches. Any opinion and experiences would be appreciated. Thank you Tor

High density polyethylene makes a good cutting surface. I was about to post a related question when I saw this. However, my question was about a cutting surface for a clicker machine. I have tried several types of cutting surface for my round knifes. I think it must be as hard as possible without dulling the knife. If the tip of the round knife sinks to deep in it can break of when you turn a corner. I find many of the normal white cutting boards to soft, I have a green cutting surface that is much better. The name on of it is "CKS cutting mat", it has printed squares on it and look like something you would have on a office desk. I only wish it was a bit bigger, the big ones are quite expensive. They sell them in leather tools and hobby stores. I also covered my big working/ cutting table with some nylon bathroom floor coverings. However, its too soft for the round knife, but works fine with a roller knife. Tor

Hi, your machine is a bottom feed only and use the same feet size as the Adler`s cl. 204/205-64, 104, 105, cl. 5 and Singer 45 K (and many more). I know that Cowboy bob (dealer on this forum) has both a roller foot and a harness foot that will fit your machine. I am 99% sure about that, but take the key with measurement (on the presser bar) to be sure. Those above feet's measure 8,4 to 8,8 mm key width. The height does not matter, just adjust the presser bar spring. Now when you know what to look for, you can also modify the ones you find self later. If you want some made for you, speak to Thomas Brinkhoff, head of spare parts Dürkopp Adler. http://sew24.blogspo.../downloads.html Good luck Tor

http://leatherworker...hp?showforum=50

Ask Bruce Johnson, he is a moderator here and sell used leather tools too. He espesially like Chase style splitters and know all about them. http://brucejohnsonleather.com/content/index.php/leather_tools_for_sale/leather-bench-machines-leather-splitters-and-skivers/ http://campbell-bosworth.com/articles/Splitting-Machines.pdf Tor

Thats far away from Oslo where I live. No point in suggesting any machine trades then. Like I said before, the 169-373 would be a nice machine for me. It uses the same feet's as my 267 flatbed. Do your 169 have a binding feed dog (back and forth only), my 345 has binding feed and I use it for that. I am a one man show, nevertheless I have ten sewing machines. Mostly cylinderbeds heavy Adler's, but also a Chinese 441 clone. I only use four of them, the rest are backups and for sale. I like Adler, but are very impressed with the material quality in my old green/grey Pfaff 345. U talked about the 1245, I think that is a very fine machine. I found one for sale here one week ago, very cheap (325$). It looked very clean, complete on stand with a clutch. I was thinking about buying it just because of the low price. However, I have a brand new DA 267-373 with Efka DC and all extras, so I do not need anything in that class. Anyway, the 1245 is a very popular machine here and few want to part with them unless they have too. I need to sell a couple of machine before buying anything and now it was sold anyway. I have a 204-64, same as your 205-64 but flat bed. And I agree with you, its only good for flat stuff. Before the 204 and 205 came with triple feed (sub cl. -74, -374 and todays -370), the -64 was the latest in the heavy leather industry. It should handle all kinds of feeding problems. However, I have older class 5 and cl. 105 (the forerunners) that have much better feed systems for leather than this machine has. (The other feeds are: bottom feed with jump foot, then top and bottom feed). They both work much better on heavy leather that the - 64 does. However, they all have bottom feed, I now use my 441 with smooth feet's and feed dog for this kind of work. I have set it up with an new Efka and currently building on a air foot lift on it (very bad foot lift system on this machine, both for hand and on pedal. The hand lift is placed in under the arm and makes problems for a dropdown guide etc.). This machine is currently the best performer in this class. Nevertheless, the 205 has some unique features the 441 misses, I miss them too. I also miss the sound of a German machine, the Chinese will never be able to reproduce that, thats the sound of quality.