Trox

Hei Lucas, If you need a cylinder bed triple feed for that thread size your options are the Juki 441 or the Adler 205-370 (or a Chinese clone from one of them). I do have a lot of German machines my self and I love them, I also have a Chinese clone machine that work very well. These two above models are the industry standard of heavy saddler's machines today, there are a couple of other brands of heavy triple feeds (lock stitch machines) as well but they are not very common. The Adler (Now Dürkopp Adler) would be the most expensive of them, they both have the same shuttle (and bobbin obviously). They have a foot lift on max 20 mm and can handle Tex 415 (European size: tkt 8 polyester ). I understand you skepticisms toward Chinese products, I have been there my self. However, today almost all German machines are produced in China. Industrial machines are made for production use 8 hours, 7 days a week. Ask yourself how many hours a day your machine will run. I ensure you the quality of todays Chinese machines are more than good enough for a saddler's work shop, It will be out dated before you break it. The most important thing to remember buying Chinese is to choose something with support. The most popular heavy saddler's machine today is Chinese clone based on the Juki TSC 441, it is a pimped up version with a higher foot lift and set up for leather work. This means a different needle plate, feed dog, feet's and in some cases a bigger hand wheel. Examples is Cobra 3, Cobra 4, Cowboy 3500, Cowboy 4500 and Techsew 4100, Techsew 5100. Artisan 3000, 3200 and 4000. They are all 441 clones with 9 and 16,5 inch arms. Both the Adler and the Juki are originally set up to sew fabrics, the needle plate (nåle plate), feed dog (under transportør) and feet's (over transportør) has to be changed to sew leather. For fabrics we use segregated feet's and feed dog, for leather they have to be smooth. The segregated ones will mark up the leather badly. Original Juki or Adler attachments are very expensive (price on these attachments from Dürkopp Adler will be around 10000 DKK), Chinese ones a lot less http://www.tolindsewmach.com/cb-acc-pack.html http://www.leathermachineco.com/catalog.php?category=11. They will also fit the original Juki machine. New price for a Juki TSC 441 is about 4300 to 4600 Euro head only, the Adler 205-370 costs much more. Then you will need a table motor etc. Price for a 441, 16,5 inch clone machine (set up for leather) is about 2600 USD, 9 inch arm is 500 $ less. Clones are also available in Germany, France and the UK. Sieck International in Germany sells the Cowboy machine under their own name http://www.sieck.de/en/machines/sewing/ . Price with clutch motor is about 2000 Euro, with the German Efka pro position motor (best available) 2500 Euro. They are not set up for leather work, but comes with a stock blanket plate and feet's. They also sell used German machines. About motors; You will not be able to control a clutch motor at slow speed (unless you practice 8 hours a day for a very long time), you need a good servo motor to have slow speed control. When Chinese machines now have acceptable quality, I cannot say the same thing about their motors. They are cheap and will need a speed reducer (V belt gear wheel) to be stronger and have better low speed control. A option is a pro position motor like the Efka 1550 or Equivalent in Ho Sing. With this motor your needle will either stop up or down, and you have a lot of other options. You will also find these motors made in China, however they will not compare. You will find all the info you need about your questions in the pinned post top of this forum. I receive the same questions almost every second day. In your case all of your listed machines will be able to sew true 10 mm. However, not with that thread size. Only the above mention two machine will be able to exceed tex 210. They are both heavy stitcher's (Grovsøm maskiner på Norsk), have large horizontal shuttle hooks that ables them to handle heavy thread tension. The rest of your list is classified as upholstery type of machines with vertical rotating hooks. The last category you will find pretty cheap used here in Europe, the heavy stitcher's are always expensive all over the world (They are not that many and there is always demand of them from people who want to repair their horse tack etc.). I do not know you budget, a cheaper option is to buy a older heavy stitcher with single or double feed. Like a Singer 45K, Adler 5 or Adler 105. If you can manage with a flatbed they will cost less. These machine will do the same job, but will mark the bottom side of your wegtan leather. If you are sewing crom tan and upholstery leather this will not be a problem. I do have three older heavy stitcher's for sale (maybe one is sold already) Adler cl. 5-27 cylinderbed with all saddler's attachments, Adler 105-25 cylinderbed and a Adler 204-64 flatbed. (Two of them is double feed and one has a jump foot, they will all handle tex 415) I have not advertised any of them yet, if you want more info send me an PM. I am based in Oslo. I hope this will answer some of your questions. Lykke til. Tor

Very Nice plough Spooky, and the knife has lot of blade left. I have a Dixon myself of a later pattern, they are made very sturdy. I often use a steel brush before polishing on a buffing wheel. If you have a drill you can buy a cheap polishing wheel and some polishing paste, you might need it for other stuff too. Its a lot of work to polishing it by hand. Tor

If its a red label with a woman in a red dress, and a hard sailing tall ship its a Løiten linie. If its only a tall sailship in smooth waters, its probably a Lysholm linie from Trondheim (middle of Norway). There are more than 260 different Norwegian aquavits, the linie is matured in sherry oak barrels passing equator a couple of times to shake it well. It has to be served tempered, not ice cold as we use to drink it before. The linie is the most expensive one and has a mild flavor, Skål.

The Dremel multi machine has a very nice Little steel brush # 538, that gives a stunning result. No other brush work that well. Now I try to get more of them with out any luck. I ordered them directly from the Dremel company, but they tell me to go true a shop. All shops I have ordered them true has promised me them, now I have waited in more than six months; but still no brush. I do not think Dremel has more of them. If you see that brush, it has a special compound in the fibers, just buy it and try. You will not regret it, its a little wonder on old patina and rusty steel. I guess a normal hand steel brush, not to aggressive will do the job too.

Thank you and "Skål min venn", Thats right I almost feel like a criminal at that price, I will call the lady to night and ask for the story behind the sale. Good luck with that Aquavit, if its a Løiten linje then I know it very well. I am born not far from the distillery, they make it from potato spirit from Hedmark Commune. Originally they put that cumin and other spices in to take away the fusel taste, the spirits was very bad in the old days. Then became a tradition and they used even when the spirits was 96 percent alcohol. You get a terrible hangover when you drink to much of it, he he. You are right about the wedge it totally useless. It seems like the maker of this tool do not have the same love of leather tools as we have. They did not even bother to put a maker stamp on it, only a number and a date (# 9, 2006). The locking screw is very bad, I have to find something else to replace it. The knife has a black color handle, ( all true the wood) but light wood type. The steel is thin, but seems of good quality ( it gets pretty sharp). Like on my Blanchard plough ( of the latest pattern) the knife has the edge on the right side and is flat on the guide side. I like that kind of edge, I feel it helps to steer the leather against the guide. I wonder why the knife is set up in a inside angle against the guide, it should be 90 degree (right angle). Nevertheless, this has a angle about 98 to 100 degrees. Then the edge of the knife points at two or three mm mark on the ruler instead of zero as it should do. I want to write to the makers and ask about it, I can easily straiten up the knife base by grinding of some material of it (then it will point at the zero mark). Thanks for you comment Bruce, I always appreciate your wise opinions. Thanks Tor

Change the screw for a longer one maybe. I have seen them in brass too, however I do not remember where.

I bought this German Plough Gauge on a Norwegian auction site for 37$, when I received it today I could see it was a complete bargain. The lady who sold it had other tools for sale too, however they where all priced to "regular" used tool prices. It is a very well made tool, I had to sharpen up the knife because it had never been used/sharpened before. I did some research and found out it is made by M. Paffrath OH in Remsheid, Germany. The German company also make other leather tools like pliers and punches http://www.paffrath-remscheid.de/index_eng.html . The new price of this tool is more than 300 Euro, I almost feel bad about buying it that cheap. She obviously have not paid that much for it herself. I do not know the story behind it, perhaps she selling the tools for somebody who has past away; all other tools was priced correctly to what they was worth. This plough has an unusual attachment, some kind of material wedge that goes in a slot to the right of the blade. The purpose is either to reduce knife drag or to compress the leather against the material guide. It did not work at all with firm leather, perhaps it is intended for use on soft leather I do not know. Also the knife is set up in an inside angle against the material fence, I do not know if it is made like this intensionally or by mistake. German tool makers seldom makes mistakes, and it cuts leather very well. The knife is exactly like a Blanchard knife and fit their plough as well. I do not like the guides locking screw, it makes the tool look cheap. They should have been using something better than this thin screw, it was also bent when I got it. A other detail i do not like is how the knife is attached, it might be practical but look cheap compared to the other tools. It is clearly inspired by the Blanchard tool, with some improvements it could have been a alternative to it too. This tool is not molded in one piece of brass like the Blanchard is, the ruler and the knife base is made in two parts that is either glued or soldered together. All parts on this tool looks like they are made in a CNC machine, on a Blanchard plough all parts are molded. The German tool is all solid brass an weight 875 grams, when the Blanchard is made lighter. I do believe lighter is better, when these tools mostly is lifted by their knife handles. This reduce the risk of the knife blade to break off in the attachment slot, as they used to do with the older tools heavier frame. The knifes look the same, however the Blanchard has thicker steel. A 15 cm Blanchard plough with one blade costs 319 Euro before tax and this one costs 245. Still I would rate the Blanchard as a better tool for the money. I attach pictures of the tool with and without the wedge. Compared to a 10 cm. Blanchard and compared to a 15 cm Mayer Flamery of the older French pattern. Not much has happened in hundred years, old is still the best. I am interested in knowledge or opinions about the wedge and the tool in general. In advance thanks. Tor

The seller informed me today; it is a consignment machine his customer received with the Juki name on. After bringing it to their attention they have done some research and found it to be a Econosew 441S. I am afraid he lost a customer or two in this proses.

The EBay seller (robert97....) has changed the name of the fake Juki nine inch machine to Econosew 441S, I guess he saw the lawsuits closing in.

Go to Singerco.com and download this instruction manual http://parts.singerco.com/IPinstManuals/29K70.pdf or/and this service manual http://parts.singerco.com/IPsvcManuals/29U171A_172A_173A.pdf. Both can be used on your machine. They comes in two bobbin sizes and different arm length, either a leaf spring for the foot pressure (Adler cl. 30 and older 29K) or a coil spring (like my 29K-72 has). I do not not know it that Consew has a small or a big bobbin, other than that they all are the same. You can round of your foot a bit with a fine ceramic grind stone if its too aggressive (new and sharp), if you take to much it will not feed well.

Take off the feed dog, you do not need a feed dog that only marks up the leather and do not feed. Its a binding feed, the feed dog is just there to drive the synchronized binder. The plate should have a narrow slot for the needle. Measure the longest stitch length forward and reverse, then give the needle some room to bend, thats all. Good luck Tor

Hi Dave, I am sorry but she lives in a other part of the country. In addition she has just lost her mother, so I will not bother her with that right now. A flat plate works much better than a curved plate for leather work. You can angle the side a bit, round it of with the grinder. Or use a thicker plate to get some angles at the sides. I have seen the plate and it look exactly like this Pfaff plate at http://www.kwokhing.com/pfaff/ 91-158 206-04 needle plate 91-059 229-04 feed dog. Here you see a leather plate for my old Adler class 5-27, it a very good plate because it is flat. The rounded or angled sides is to get it to fit on a cylinder arm bed (or keep materials from been hooked by the ends) Believe me, a flat plate will work best. Then the foot pressure is evenly distributed over the work and it less likely you will have any skipped stitches too. keep it high polished and It will sew leather like a champ Tor

I echo what Billymac says. You cannot do without a patcher, it does the sewing job all my other machine fails to do. I have a long 29K-72 and a short arm Adler 30. Tor

Yes, thats a good price, It looks like new.

Thank you for the link, I look forward to hear about the visit to Sheffield. Thanks Tor

Yes, I got a trained eye in looking at part lists. Pic # two, page three has four different needle plates. I will not list the part numbers, only the number in the pic. # 28, 35, 65 and 66 are different needle plates. Since your machine is a binder feed and only feeds with the needle and the top feed, you do not need the feed dog. You could make your self a "slotted plate", like the one we use for our 441 clones. It easy to make a flat plate with two screw holes and a needle slot. Take a piece from a three mm steel plate and drill out the holes (sink the screw heads down with a larger diameter drill bit half the way true the plate) and the slot, then polish it up to a mirror like surface on a buffing wheel (so it does not stain the leather) . With this plate you will have a very nice leather machine, the needle do most of the feed job on leather machines anyway. Here is the different leather needle plates who is available for the 441, make something like the slotted one. A friend of me (Not a member of this forum) has a machine like yours, a bit newer and with a Efka DC 1600 motor. It is a bad picture, however you can see the plate. It should be easy to make. Good luck Tor

It totally depends of the price, it is a Chinese clone machine. We use it for repairs and do not need expensive versions. A shoemaker will need it, however, there is a lot of these machines available in other brands. Whats the price?

Here is the download for your part list https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/JUKI-DSC-245-PARTS-BOOK at College. They have everything these guys. Tor

Take of the feet's and take some photos of them. Then send a PM to CowboyBob http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showuser=7185 Bob Kowar, Toledo Industrial Sewing Machine Sales Ltd. He has a lot of stuff. It is possible Kwokhing has the parts without knowing it themselves. Industrial Sewing machines is a world of copycats, what machine who is a clone of which is hard tell. About the same question as the one about the chicken and the egg. Have you asked College? To get the answer you want, you must ask the right question. Go to Juki and download the part list, or write down the partnumbers you need http://www.juki.co.jp/industrial_e/webparts_e/partslist2.html . These feet's look exactly like the Pfaff 335. 345 and 1245 feet's, http://www.kwokhing.com/pfaff/ plates look similar too. Take a look at these Pfaff feet's, I am sure you can use them. Or modify them for your machine. Take off the feet's and measure them with a caliper (in 0.00 mm scale) and we will compare them to my Pfaff 345 feet's. The measurements that is important is the thickness of the flat parts of vibrating presser (part of the last foot who goes up in the presser bar), the height of them and the inside measurement of the front foot ( where the feeding foot bar goes in to the foot) and again the height. The height is not that important, because you can adjust the machine to compensate for it. Then measure the center to center screw holes in the needle plate, width and beam etc, (then the length, screw holes of the feed dog) then you can ask members with the new Pfaff 335 machine to compare it. There is knowledge and information about this among our members and in the forum. You only have to ask the right questions (and search the forum). I am sure you can use the Pfaff feet's, the plate I not sure about. I think you give up to easy, I had machines before that is obsolete and used more than two years to find the parts for it. Nevertheless, I found them in the end. Your machine is still available new, worst case scenario you have to buy original Juki parts. But you will get the parts you need, no worries. Let me know. Tor

Hi Dave, I do modify allot of my stuff on a bench grinder to get it to do what I want. However, your needle plate is hard to modify and your vibrating presser foot (last one) has no toes and cannot hold down your material when you start sewing on the edge. The presser foot set costs from 9 to 15 $ with Kwokhing, the needle plate I do not know. They look very similar to my Pfaff 345 feet's, perhaps they are the same. I believe college https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/default.aspx can help you with your needs too. However, Kwokhing sell to dealers in prices. You will find their stuff to three times their price other places. Ask for Mr. Bosco Ko and explain your needs to him, you can pay with Paypal. Fast shipping and excellent service. If you was asking for part for an old Singer 45K they would not know what you where talking about. Your machine should be right up their alley. If you PM one of our UK members, or starts a topic asking for UK members advice, they will help you for sure. Your machine is very handy sewing bags and such, unfortunately it will not handle heavy threads. You never see pro hand bag makers using very thick threads on their stuff, thats because its easier to get a professional result with the right size threads for the leather thickness. The modern polyester and bonded nylon threads are very strong today, your machine will work just fine on stuff like that. If you was looking for a saddle/harness stitcher you must look at Juki 441 / clones, Adler 205-370/clones*,old Adler 105 or old Singer 45K. Only the two first machines has triple feed. (*clones are Chinese copies of these machines pimped for leather work; like Cobra 3 and 4. Cowboy 3500 or 4500. Click on member dealers banners top of site to have a look and read pinned post about leather sewing machines. You find a lot of stuff about their fine machines in the forum). Good luck Tor

Hallo Bert, Wiz has posted about problems with black thread, it usually is recolored leftovers from other colors. I always pack my thread cones in plastic to keep it from drying out. Fibings liquid saddle soap will help to restore some moister in to it again. Nevertheless, thread is fresh ware. new needles and fresh threads takes care of most stitching errors. You might find the pinned topic about http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=13283 needle sizing useful too. By the way, I lived some years in Antwerp not to far from Bert (if thats where you live). I loved Belgium, the only thing I did not like was the winter weather. I prefer dry cold snow before rain and fog, and I missed the Norwegian nature too. It is almost twenty years since I have been there, I got to go to visit you soon. Good luck to you. Tot ziens, Goedenavond. Tor

On My Efka motor I can program a stitch counter if I want to. And since I almost always use the same stitch length I can find out when the bobbin is low on thread. setting up some kind of alarm warning for it is possible. However, this is not anything I would use my time on. I have a "healthy" routine in checking the bobbins before sewing, and is it below a 30 % I change it for a full one. I do not trow the thread away, I save it for a small project later. I have a lot of spare bobbins, I can also use the ones for my Adler 204 who has the same shuttle. You better buy some extra bobbins, it gives you a better "thread economy". Thanks Tor

Hi, I see this machine is a binding machine, the feed dog is only moving back and forth. The special needle plate is designed to attach a rod to the feed dog that again drives a synchronized binder (it also have binding feet's). You can buy a regular feet's, needle plate and feed dog to use it without the binder. From Juki or Kwokhing.com (they sell it cheap, send them an email). For use without binder, lower the feed dog to under the needle plate level ( approx 0,5 to 1 mm under the plate) or else it will disturb your feeding. I do not know much about this machine other that it uses thin thread, it is not designed for heavy threads (over tkt 40 or tex 69) I am not sure about the exact specs, go to the leaflets (data sheet) on Juki web site to have a look. (If you do not know what a binding machine is, try youtube leather binding) Good luck Tor

OK Darren, they are already in there. If they are designed to be operated by a system servo they will normally not be on more than 24 V DC (from 5 to 24 V DC) in some cases 30V DC. This is the maximum out power from a normal control box I believe. I think you will see it if it is a AC solenoid, then it has a control cables from the motor in addition to the power supply from the 110/220 v socket. I do not know, I use air. They should have the operating power and markings on them, or some kind of number you can google to see the data sheet on them. Darren, What is written on them?

You are welcome Jim, snakker du Norsk? One of the best solutions to the speed problem ( and alternative to a servo motor) is to use a 3 phase clutch/ or regular AC motor with a frequency converter. This little "magic" box converts 3 phase to single phase current and let you control all parameters on the motor. Like speed, torque, start and stop time etc. It lets you limit the motors top speed; you can go as slow as you want and still have maximum torque. You can attach a potentiometer (like a pedal) and control it like a servo motor. I have used this solution on several machines, and the speed control is better than on any servo motor you can buy. with this "box" you can use any kind of 3 phase AC motor, the pot meter replace the clutch. When servo motors is a "new" thing in the sewing machine world, the industrial world has moved away from it and uses mostly this system. They can hook these boxes to their computers and remotely control the motors true the internet. I got a pair of these for free from my brother who works in the electro business. The prices varies from make and capabilities, from 60 $ and up, I know they are cheaper in the US than where I live. You need one that can handle the ampere of the motor, the price follows the ampere up-wards. So you do not want to use more motor than you need to, three phase motors have more torque than single phase too. A 750 watt will power most harness stitcher's, then hook up three cables and you are ready to go. Here is what these boxes look like, they are easy to hook up. However you must read the instructions for programming the parameters on it. If anybody want to know how it works, send me a PM and I can give you a link to a video of my old Adler class 5 with this system. I also uses this kind of box on my skiving and clicking machines who both are tree phase (when I only have single phase current in my work shop). However, only for converting the current, I do not need to control the speed of these. Thanks Tor