katsass

Josh, can't find fault in your workmanship at all, but as darkelf mentions (as others) a shoulder rig needs SECURE retention of some sort. Back when.....in the 70's, I wore an original Hoyt vertical shoulder rig for a S&W M-19 which only had a spring steel clamp around the cylinder for retention. I damn near lost the shooter on one occasion and promptly put a strap on the thing. In the 90's, had a friend and co-worker that, on an aerial search over one of our desert dry lake-beds, leaned out of a chopper and lost his 3" .357 mag. He was wearing a similar vertical shoulder rig with no retention strap. About two weeks later an older gal wandered into a local sub-station with his gun in a paper bag. The rigs look neat and all that, but in my experience, they aren't that comfy for protracted periods of wear, and as darkelf says, aren't that easy to work with. For the majority of my 35 yrs as a LEO I wore my weapons in a fairly high and tight strong side rig...most with a thumb break. JMHO Mike

Lobo, I've said it before , but still worth saying again...you do great work! (I'd like to get my mitt's on that shooter.....it kinda makes my pet 3" Mod-24 .44 look like a pea-shooter I'll bet) Mike

gregintenn: With the quality of Lobo's work, and his designs, ...........listen to the man. Mike

Absolutely........you could even do a little decorative goody on the ends of the strip, add one hole on each end, expose the tips and do some decorative stitching. Mike

'Morning, What Dwight says, that's how I have done all of mine for years. Simple, looks good, and lasts. Here's a pic of one for a custom Vaquero in .45 Colt I did about a year ago. Horizontal cross draw with sewn on holster. 'Taint my cup o tea....but the customer loves it. Mike P.S. I also only hand stitch too. Here's one I did at least 30 years ago.....long enough to not remember who it was for or what gun the thing was. The pic is a digital taken of an old 35mm print.

Thank you all for the kind words. The problem was that I didn't have the inclination to do any work that day, then came an overwhelming perceived obligation to replace an item I felt that I had lost. I rushed to complete it, and finally felt that I had probably consumed a little too much of my dark brew which worried me in that it may not be quite the product I thought it was on the previous day. And my shop still isn't clean. Mike

Well, He's happy, my shop just has the same areas of mess......... in new positions, I rushed the job, he got a new pouch for free, and too much of my Negra Modelo is gone! Plus, waking up in the morning wondering just what I had put together, and finding the discarded old pouch that was sitting on the bench all the time. Being slightly pessimistic, I'm betting that he'll cut himself on the knife and blame me....... Mike

A few days ago a friend dropped off an old Dakota lock-back knife in a beat up pouch with the request that I put a new belt loop on it. A couple of days later the temp had gotten to 90+ degrees, the desert wind was around 35 mph, and I was bored. There wasn't anything that had to be done that couldn't wait, so I decided to hide out, clean up my little shop and just fiddle around. The shop was reasonably comfy, the refer was stocked with 'adult beverages', and the radio was tuned to the local CW station. I moved a couple of messes from one place to another, partook of liquid refreshment, moved some more stuff, found a 1960's vintage 'American Rifleman' mag, sat and read a bit while enjoying another cool one, found my (lost) Lansky sharpener, sharpened the friend's (dull) Dakota, threw away the rotted leather pouch for the lock-back, fiddled some more then....... realized what I had done! I thrashed thru the trash and couldn't find it. Went to the scrap bin and messed with different pieces of leather and decided that I had to form up a new pouch. Messed for a while trying to come up with a decent pattern for the thing, had another cool one, messed with the leather and finally got something put together. Looked at the clock and found that it was time to scorch something for dinner. Gave up for the evening. The morning strikes, and out to the shop I go to find out what sort of thing I had put together the night before. I guess that it came out o.k. because my friend was tickled......by the way, the old pouch was perched on the end of my bench...behind one of the messes I had previously moved. It wasn't a good day.

donut; For what it's worth. I make almost all of my holsters with two layers of leather bonded together, flesh side to flesh side. For example, if I want the holster to end up as if made with 9 oz, I use two layers of 4/5 oz. I use a good quality of contact cement to bond the layers together and wet mold with fairly warm (not hot) water. The desert heat and breeze here usually takes care of the drying. (At 6am this morning it was 70 degrees...heading for 90 or so, humidity around 20%) In a more moderate or humid climate a simple heat box would do well. The two layers of leather never have the grain running in an identical way....and the grain of the leather is what will give you the firmness in molding. The two layers with differing grain lay offer a greater rigidity than a single thickness of leather IMO, and this idea seems to have held up well for over 30 years for me. As to dye....I use only Fiebing's Pro Oil dyes.....thru an airbrush.......finished with Feibing's Satin Sheen thru an airbrush. (In a dire circumstances, Mop and Glow thinned 50/50 with water and also shot thru an airbrush works well as a finish......just mist it on) The two layer method requires a bit more stitching (all edges are stitched), however, the stitching adds a bit to the appearance of the finished product....again IMO. Mike

For what it's worth, I use only the Pro Oil dyes. Tans and browns. I also do all my dying with an airbrush. A little practice and you can get it down pat, even with the Harbor Freight inexpensive airbrushes. The oil dye just seems to come out more uniformly. An example or two done with the H.F. setup. Mike

GRUMPY OLD KATSASS .......... = southpaw. Teachers from kindergarten until 5th grade tried to change me........one even smacked my hand with a ruler if I even picked up a pencil with my grubby little left mitt.

Sixer, I understand where you're going with your design, but, I have found (and this may just be me) that a lot of times less is more. More comfort and usability. I tend to stay with a more 'traditional' style for wheel guns, and to a large degree, auto pistols also. My holsters are done with two layers of leather, bonded together flesh side to flesh side, and equalling about 9/10- oz leather. I dry my stuff (after molding) in the desert sun, rather hot, you know. (it's 7:30 am right now and 82 degrees....will get to almost 100 today) The same effect can be achieved by force drying in a more moderate or humid climate. This produces a very rigid product after molding....negating the need for an additional piece at the top to help hold the mouth of your holster open. Here is a couple of pics of a little J-frame holster that I designed and wear. It's comfy; holds the gun in close to my chubby's; stays where it needs to be, and is easily concealed by a loose shirt tail. The secret to these type of holsters is the belt loop, IMO. It must be wide, as heavy as the rest of the holster and made to fit the belt, snugly, that you cary it on. Of course these are just my opinions and may be worth about as much as you paid for what you get. Mike

Thanks Kevin for the response. Thinking about it I can see that the use of nails etc. would not work well.......a little moisture over time would rust/corrode the metal. Wooden pins also ensure lateral stability of the stack. Began to think nobody wanted to answer an old fart's query. I began playing with different types of glue/cement, and think I found what I needed. The item is basically a spacer but needs to be shaped (my drum sander works well) and the edge burnished well. Thanks again. Mike

OK russel, I agree with Dwight......mostly. I also use Weldwood Contact cement, but their instruction for the stuff says NOT to wait more than an hour before bonding your two pieces of leather. This is for their product that is solvent based....they DO have a water based cement which I have never used, so if that is the one being mentioned.........disregard my previous statement. ANYHOO......I make all of my holsters from two layers of bonded leather. This produces a firmer formed holster IMO, and all edges are saddle stitched which produces a pleasing appearance in the finished product...again, IMO. Another plus is that your finished product has a nice smooth interior, more 'finished' looking. The lightest holster leather I use is two layers of 4/5 oz shoulder leather in holsters for smaller, lighter firearms....heavier (6/7 oz) leather for heavier guns. Sometimes a combination of 6/7 and 4/5 oz. When bonded as Dwight mentions, there is no bulge, bubble or wrinkle. It does take a bit more stitching, but I find that to be a selling point also. Mike

Good morning all: First of all, I'm not a boot-maker......and at my age I don't intend to become one.......I make holsters, made my first one when I was 17. I'm damn near 70 now. I have had an idea knocking around in my head for a while and now am going to give it a go. The only problem I have is that it will require a stack of laminated leather about 1 3/4 inch thick....like a boot heel. There will be no lateral stress applied to this stack (like in a dogger heel) but delamination would screw up the works. How do boot-makers make a stacked heel so that it will not separate? Glue/cement only? Tacks/nails? Stitching? All of the above? None of the below? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Mike

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Good morning Jack: I agree with Denster completely. I make almost all of my holsters that way. For smaller framed guns I may use 4/5 oz and on one particular rig for a custom Vaquero in .45 Colt, I went 7/8 and 5/6. Edge burnish all edges except the main welt (from trigger guard to muzzle) before you assemble it completely. Cut yourself a good stitching groove and follow it with 5 or 6 stitches per inch and you will be pleased with your efforts. Would like to see a pic or two when you are done. Here is a quick holster and mag pouch I just finished. Mike P.S. I also saddle stitch all my stuff by hand.

A quick answer....some yes and some no. It depends on what the customer wants and/or what my idea of the outcome should be. Most all the holsters I make are made with two layers of lighter leather bonded flesh side to flesh side....in essence, lined. All historically accurate holsters are single thickness holsters and are dyed clean through by dip dying., if not just oiled. I use Fiebings pro oil dyes and finishes with no problem of bleeding on to a gun. Mike

For what it's worth, I have stopped using any of the Tandy dyes etc. especially the Eco stuff. Their stuff isn't what it was years ago. I now use only Feibing's Pro Oil Dyes and their finishes. For black I have recently made my own jug of vinegaroon and it seems to be doing the trick.........it's an ancient way of coloring leather, but what the hell.........I'm old too. I'll give a go at making my own brown dye from walnut hulls a little later in the year, but that's more an exercise in my education than a serious need to use the stuff. Mike

Mr Ghormley, you don't know me from Adam, while I only know of you by reputation but, damn well said. Your statement mimicked my thoughts as I read many of these replies, but I refused to become embroiled in it. I spent five years in the Navy as a helicopter air crewman.....1961 to 1966. Subsequent to that I spent 35 years as a LEO, then retired when it became evident that I was just not quick enough to possibly keep my partner from harm...or possibly myself.....while on the street. I had an experience while still a rookie that made forget any worry about liability. I had made a friend and co-worker (Deputy Sheriff) an off duty holster for his (personal) duty weapon, a 6" Colt Python. Louie was a big guy. Less than a week later I arrived at work to find the graveyard shift still in uniform and deeply involved in serious hushed conversation. Upon asking the normal question, "what the hell is going on?", the duty Sgt. walked over to me, looked me in the eye and, VERY seriously stated, " Louie was shot last night, he's in the hospital and because of your damned holster".......he stopped, looked at the look on my dead white face, and started to laugh! He finished......" because of that holster he's alive and asking the nurses for sponge baths! Louie had always carried his pet Python to and from work in an old leather zippered folder, and he would just toss it on the passenger seat of his car when he headed home. He had stopped at a local stop and rob for gas and, while outside the car, a local bad guy drove up and popped him with one shot from a 12 ga. sawed off shotgun...loaded with #6 bird shot. The bad guy was quickly caught and admitted that when Louie grabbed a gun from under his jacket and shot back at him, it scared him so bad he wet his pants. Louie had fired blind because his sunglasses stopped some pellets but he couldn't see through them. He didn't hit the bad guy, just the car. My wife took a number of orders from other deputies wives for off duty holsters shortly after that. Mike

Hi bz.........Good effort for your first holster, but I agree with Boomstick, you need to allow yourself the ability to get a better grip. I also notice that your Colt appears to be on a negative cant, ie. the butt is tilted toward the rear. This is fine.....if you draw that way, but if you draw as most of us do, you may find that the gun hangs up or drags as you draw and your arm starts forward. Also, the cant may well allow the butt of your gun to stick out a bit or 'print' more than you want. Finally, the hammer is well exposed, allowing it to catch on the lining of a jacket or on the tail of a loose shirt. On a personal note: I have carried for a long time (I was a LEO for 35 years, and I still carry most of the time) and have found that a pancake holster isn't quite as comfy and concealable as many think. I very often carry a J-Frame Smith and have found that a simple pouch type holster, well molded with a forward cant, a wide belt loop, and a hammer shroud not only keeps the gun in close to my chubbies but allows for a good grip as I draw. As to 'printing', my holster doesn't 'print' anymore than a pancake IMO, BUT, you must dress to conceal. It is very difficult to conceal a weapon in most people's everyday, run around jeans and t-shirt.......or light weight summer wear. I'm enclosing a couple of pics of one of my normal J-Frame holsters. Now, all that said, take from it what you will, you may well find that my opinions and observations are worth just what you paid for them, but please don't take them as any form of "put down' on your efforts or abilities. Mike

Thanks Chuck, for the info......I just started searching through the "Foxfire" books for info on early leather working, don't know what I'll find. I became interested in the way leather was worked and colored in the past a little while ago. About July or maybe August a supply of walnut hulls will be available out here in the desert. I realize that it will take a lot of boiling plus a good quantity of hulls to make the stuff. I have used coffee and different teas for color back when I was doing a lot of tooling. Either of those can add shades not too easily obtained with commercial dyes IMHO. I enjoyed working with them back then, but nowadays I do very little tooling.......almost all of my stuff is unadorned (except for dye) working holsters with a shotgun or rifle case or scabbard thrown in now and again. Much of the call for holsters is for items either not readily available locally or by those that want one made specifically to their requirements. Many like the final rigidity of my holsters as I use two thicknesses of leather in almost all holsters (other than historically accurate ones), with a saddle stitch all around the edges, some (I think) just like the saddle stitching. A few just want something with my maker's mark on it......like their dad has. (My maker's mark is my avatar) For thirty years or more I hand drew it on all my work with a ball stylus 'till Ma Kat got me a stamp of my mark for a present a few years ago. I just use a mini monogram of my initials on my scrimshaw. Not too much call for hand scrim right now....to easy to get laser etched stuff at much less cost. Here's a pic of a bit of a unique holster I built a little while ago. Mike

Thanks for the information. History of this sort of things are of interest to me, as a matter of fact, I'll be attempting to make some walnut dye later this year....when I can get the walnut hulls. The one thing that has me wondering is that I thought I was making ferrous acetate and not ferric nitrate. ? Mike

Another point that has come up is that it is said that the vinegaroon treatment will deteriorate the leather sooner than dyed leather. During my reading I found that in museums the experts find vinegarooned leather from as far back as the 17Th century..........it has deteriorated to a greater degree than other tanned leather from the period, but it still has it's shape and is easily seen for what it is. I think that the life of the holster etc. that I build will probably exceed the life of the customer. Mike