katsass

I have read a number of forum entries re: vinegaroon, and none I have read mentioned the fact that vinegar comes in differing strengths of acetic acid. I found that a generic house brand of vinegar comes in a 4% strength, while a name brand (Heinz) comes in 5% strength. It seemed to me that the higher strength would combine chemically a bit better with iron oxide than a lower strength and could make a better solution. I began with a gallon of Heinz (5% acetic acid) vinegar. I took two pads of 0000 steel wool and, using a propane torch, burned them well. This to remove any oils or wax. I cut the steel wool into strips narrow enough to slip into the narrow top of the vinegar jug and dropped them in. The stuff sat for about ten days with a piece of old t-shirt covering the open top to keep bugs and etc. out, but allowed air in. It was kept in an area that reached over 90 degrees during the warmth of the day. After the ten day period, all that was left of the steel wool was a very fine black residue, similar to the black sand found when panning for gold....but as fine as flour. I filtered the stuff through a piece of old t-shirt (it had to be cleaned fairly frequently) and ended up with a gallon of a light amber colored liquid. I wandered out to my shop and scrounged up every bit of different scrap veg-tanned leather I could find. I dumped a bunch of my concoction into a glass bowl and then each piece of leather in turn went in to it for 10 to 15 seconds. I quickly flushed each piece of leather with clear water and set them out to dry. Each piece was DEAD BLACK except one which was BLUE BLACK. There were no dirty grey pieces; no brown-black pieces like US Marine Corp recruits got (way back) when they first had to shine their issued brown dress shoes with a tin of black Lincoln shoe polish. Everything was just BLACK!!! If I were going to make holsters, etc. using this stuff the pieces would get a drenching in warm water with baking soda dissolved in it, then a rinse with cool water. I feel (right or wrong) that the acetic acid must be high enough concentration to chemically work it's magic on enough iron oxide to make a good jug of vinegaroon. It seems to me that I hit it on the head. JMHO Mike

I have been playing with holsters for more than 30 years and frankly, I stay away from Tandy's brand of dyes, glues and finishes........unfortunately their stuff just isn't up to snuff IMHO. First of all, I dye all parts after cutting and 'dry fitting'. I let the parts thoroughly dry (24 hours) prior to any further steps are taken. I also use an airbrush to dye with.......it isn't necessary to use one...but I like it. Almost all of my holsters (except historically accurate ones) are made from two layers of lighter leather doubled up. To do that I use a good quality contact cement (spirit based) which is designed for the bonding of plastic laminate to wood...... like Dwight says. Be sure to wait the 15-20 minutes before bonding. It can be longer in humid areas (I live in the desert....humidity is rarely a problem) For the main welt I'll often sand the edges to be bonded with 220 grit sandpaper...to ensure the penatration and adhesion of the cement. I try to stitch not much more than 1/8 to 3/16 inch from the finished edge of my welt.......I hand stitch only. For molding.......warm......just less than cold........water from the tap........a quick run under the tap on the outside, then inside, to moisten uniformly.........let it sit for a couple of minutes then mold. Soaking doesn't help a thing. Drying. This is where you get the rigidity (stiffness) of your project IMO. In my area the summer humidity is rarely over 20%. 90 degrees for drying with low humidity will produce nice firm holsters. A drying cabinet or box is a good thing in cooler or more humid areas. This can be produced by simply placing your project in a cardboard box, closing the lid and pumping in warm air from a hair dryer. You can get as fancy as you want, as long as you have warm (NOT HOT) air moving over your project. Edge finishing takes place at two different times. The edges of all areas EXCEPT the welt are burnished prior to assembly and cementing the welt. I use only water and/or dye on edges.........plus a good hardwood burnishing tool (made it myself). Don't care for Gum Trag and will not use 'edge cote'. That stuff makes the edge look like it's painted with plastic. Remember, burnishing takes heat and friction.....and some work. I spray on a shot of neatsfoot oil, allow to dry, then shoot my finish. I then may do a final burnish with bee's wax on the welt. I suspect that hot water and a subsequent dye job (if solvent based) is causing the Tandy stuff to let loose, that and and/or you may be rushing the bonding of the welt....the contact cement isn't dry eough to work properly. I have never had your problem aise on any of my holsters, but my way may not be as others do, and my advice may be worth about as much as you paid for it. JMHO Mike A pic of a quick 'knock together' holster.

TRICKYRAC, I do things a little differently than most...but it works well for me. I first transfer my pattern to cased leather with a ball point stylus. Next I use a swivel knife with a filigree blade to enhance the marks from the stylus...it won't cut through the full thickness of leather, BUT, it gives me an exact line to follow with a 'dedicated' knife (one that is used to only cut leather). I finally cut out the pattern following in the impression made by the swivel knife. A couple of pics of my tools used. The 'dedicated knife is a "Murphy" knife and is about 70 yrs old. Mike

Years ago (early 1970's) when I was younger and more foolish, I did a number of this sort of project.....leather covered rifle stocks....seven of them as I recall. I'll never do another. However, for a finish I used a good quality brushing lacquer, (for cabinet work) thinned 50/50 with lacquer thinner and MISTED on the raw leather.....nothing under it. Two fine coats with minimal time between. Then, after 48 hrs. of drying..........a coat of neutral polish buffed with soft flannel. The first pic is of one ready for finishing...the second.... after. The pics aren't too good as they are from 35mm slides which were then printed, then a current digital photo taken. Any lacquer product must be applied in VERY thin coats, allowed to dry just enough....not too much......so that the next coat will chemically bond with the first into a single layer. Two very thin coats is enough.....more can crack in this sort of application. Just my two cents and experience with lacquer products. I don't use any lacquer products anymore. Mike

Ditto what dickf said.............also, would like to see the weapon in the holster....it looks to me as though the mag release might be hit during the draw or upon holstering. I don't bone my holsters, but do mold them, paying particular attention to the trigger guard area which is the major area of retention on this type of work, JMHO....... and many feel it's worth just about what you paid for it. Mike

Sorry Particle, didn't take any pics of the back on this holster/mag pouch combo, but it's just a plain fold-over and stitched down belt loop. Basically the same as this one. Mike

MAX, as a side to Bianchi's stuff, I don't keep up on that sort of thing, but I remember that back quite a while ago he and his wife split an SHE ended up with the business. The outfit perked right along though and I really never heard what happened after that, but I have wondered, from time to time, who the designs really came from. Been by the place a few times but have not dropped in to see anything. I still have an issued holster from AKER out of San Diego. It's a paddle holster (left handed) and, as you say, aside from the normal exterior wear it's still very usable. although it's just there as a 'reminder' anymore. The paddle is of kydex(?) and well formed.....easy on - easy off but solid when worn and the most comfortable paddle I ever wore. Mike

Yeppers, I used 4/5 oz shoulder, doubled. I feel (right or wrong) that the doubled leather forms stiffer and holds it's shape over time better than single thickness leather. It takes a bunch more stitching though....and like you, mine is all hand done with linen. This is four strand natural.color. Mike

Just thought I'd throw this in....just finished this everyday working rig for an HK USP Compact .45. Nothing fancy, just working leather. Mike

Saxxin, Just my two cents. First, I expect that you are using 8/9 oz leather for your holsters, most makers do.........of course I'm a little different. Almost all of my holsters are made from two layers of either 3/4 oz or 4/5 oz (depending on the weight and size of the weapon to be holstered) bonded (glued) together rough (flesh) side to flesh side. This ends up giving my holsters a smooth interior as well as the outside. I use a good quality of shoulder leather. I case my leather (I use a DAMP, clean sponge to MOISTEN, NOT SOAK, the surface of the leather) and transfer my pattern with a ball stylus. I initially cut my pattern with a swivel knife the follow with a 'dedicated' cutter. Pic. (Mine is a 70+ yr old Murphy knife) for a very clean cut. I 'dry' fit all areas and trim if necessary. I bevel all edges except the welt, case the leather, run my stitching gouge then my overstitch to mark the stitches. Allow to dry then dye all parts. Allow to dry. I saddle stitch all areas except the welt, then burnish all edges....except the welt. Glue places needed as necessary while stitching. NOTE: Since all edges of my stuff are stitched, timing for the gluing of pieces together is something that must be worked out in advance. Finally I, glue up the welt, stitch, and burnish the edge. Wet the thing down, mold, and let dry thoroughly. Apply finish. The same steps are followed is using a single thickness of leather....but you won't have to do so much stitching. The only time there is a need to run a glass slicker (and you are not 'casing' your leather, you are soaking your leather) is when you are doing carving and stamping designs on/in pieces of leather that need to maintain their exact dimensions. Many carvers will allow the leather to dry after the slicking (which is to reduce stretching during carving and stamping) then use rubber cement to affix the piece to a sheet of slick sided poster board prior to doing that kind of work. This further reduces stretching. No need or reason to do it when making holsters. Here's a pic or two of a quick, toss together holster showing all the stitching I mentioned. OK, I think it takes longer to tell about it than to do it, but that's the way I do things......pretty close to most people I think.....and, of course, the advice is worth all you paid for it. Mike

MAX, sorry, I didn't see this earlier. I don't show too much of my stuff, it's mostly unadorned, working holsters. No fancy tooling....don't get much call for that. I show the stuff that's 'different' IMO. Here's a pic of a flyer of ine with a few things that may be of interest. Mike

Stay away from Tandy's "Sewing Awl Kit" !!!!!!!

Bone Crusher, I'm a retired Deputy Sheriff (35 yrs worked) from Calif. A pretty good holster for a 1911 is in Al Stohlmans book "How to Make Holsters". It comes with a pretty good tooling pattern too. Most of my work is for other LEO's and for duty wear (and almost all of my work) I use two layers of 4/5 oz leather with rough sides bonded (glued) together. That makes a firmer holster than any single piece of heavier leather and the inside of the holster will be smooth. The book is available thru Tandy, and for under $10.00 is worth getting just for the info and patterns in it. Mike

Thanks MAX, I'll hit e-bay and look at those pen blanks. I had seen them before but thought that they might be pre-drilled so I ignored them. In my leather work I can use some power stuff and feel fine about it...Dremel, 3/8 drill, airbrush etc, but in my scrim it's all hand done. Don't get much call for it, seems to cost too much in relation to the laser etched stuff that can be had out there. People don't understand the time and effort involved in real scrim. A pic of a sample of a piece of my work. Mike

Thanks Fred, I'll hit you site for the cocobolo and e-bay for the diamond sander also. Mike

MAX, a question if you don't mind. Where do get your thread? I prefer linen as you do, but it's difficult for me to find and I'm only able to get small amounts at a time when available. Thanks, Mike

Gotta agree totally with Lobo. When I was in plain clothes, I always had the belt loops location and length altered on my strong side (I'm a southpaw) and wore a 1 3/4" 9 oz. belt, reinforced with a layer of 4 oz backing. Didn't wear a suit coat very much except for court wear so I didn't worry about printing. Normal wear here in the desert we wore a dress shirt, casual dress trousers and (shined) boots that got screwed up as soon as you started tracking or working any scene outside of the main part of a town. For a western style gunbelt and holster I find, as a general rule, about 3" additional length is needed for a proper fit. Mike

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ MAX, gotta agree with you. I cut as close as possible but finish with a Dremel. Have 3 of them but seem to use a cordless more than any other. As to cocobolo, I'd love to get hold of a 1/2 inch square about 4 inches long to turn down on a lathe to make an edge burnisher. Haven't found any yet. As to the use of power tools, my scrimshaw instructor (a nationally known master engraver) told me, after I questioned him about a power scrim tool (which I can't afford), that people pay for the hand that guides the tool. The tool just makes some of the work easier, the lay-out, pattern. and the final product are the result of the artist's ability. I like that thought. Mike

I used a rubber band to hold a piece of cheese cloth over the open top........just so strange things don't happen. Mike

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Max, I don't think they are showing pH level on the label of vinegar, they are showing concentration levels of either 4% or 5% of (I think) acetic acid. Although, I'll bet my chemistry is probably older than yours, as I remember my chem teacher wore a dark robe and whispered incantations. Of course they may have been attempted spells pointed in my direction as I damn near blew up the lab a couple of times; once when making hydrogen and once attempting a demonstration of a dust explosion. In my defence I only broke one overhead light fixture and just a few pieces of glass. My jug is stuffed with two freshly torched 0000 steel wool pads cut into narrow strips and stuffed into a gallon jug of vinegar and stuck away on a shelf in my small shop...heated by the spring sun. Today it'll hit about 80 degrees outside and over 90 in the shop, if I leave the door shut. Mike

I've read all I can find on vinegaroon, and the one thing I have not seen addressed is the acid level of the vinegar. I can buy 4% or 5% acid level vinegar. I don't know, but I bought 5% vinegar on the thought that the greater acid level would work it's chemistry on the steel wool in a more efficient manner. Any ideas?? Mike