Wizcrafts

Yes, I am still looking for a gear box for a Singer large bobbin, long arm patcher. Please send me a PM with the details.

My last recommendation, before I permanently exit this topic, is that you take some of your leather samples, finished and ready to be sewn, to an industrial sewing machine dealer. If you cannot find one close to you, since you are in Canada, mail them to Raphael Sewing in Montreal, P.Q. They are the distributors of the Techsew brand of sewing equipment and are permanent advertisers and contributors to this forum. I have no doubt that Ronnie at Techsew (Raphael) will take one look at your work and get back to you with the best, least expensive machine they have that can handle your work, with the stitch lengths and thread sizes you prefer. Exit, stage left...

David; There is no comparison between an industrial sewing machine (like the 45k series) and a domestic Singer 201. Domestic machines are extremely limited in the thickness and toughness that can be sewn, as well as the allowable sizes of thread they can tension. A 201, which you are looking at on FleaBay, is only good for sewing soft leather, and is limited to using #69 bonded thread. It is built like a tank, but not with sewing leather belts in mind. The tensioning components and hook are too small and thin to use thread heavier than T70 (#69) bonded nylon thread. You will be very lucky if that machine will penetrate more than 12 ounces of soft leather. Then, you may find that the presser foot can't hold down the leather between stitches, so you'll need to crank down the spring over the foot. This will increase the drag on the leather, resulting in shorter stitches, possibly of varying lengths. Since belt leather is typically rather dense - especially after tooling it - the #110/18 needle will probably get deflected and break. Have you even taken the time to read the sticky article on the top of this forum, about the type of sewing machine you need to sew leather? If you had, you would not be looking at domestic sewing machines for making leather belts.

Hmmm

Not in this timeline. Maybe in an alternate future universe. A Singer 29k71 or 29k172 - both of which are in my shop - cannot sew thicker than 1/4 inch (6mm), nor with any thread larger than #92 (T90). Th k71 has a bobbin the size of three US nickes stacked together. The k172 has a bobbin the size of a quarter, stacked thrice. They hold enough #69 thread to sew several zippers onto jackets. Even if they could sew with thicker thread, the bobbins would run out after two or three feet (1 Canadian yardstick). We have machines for sale that can sew with .58mm thread. They are built by Campbell-Randall. Known as needle and awl machines, they sell for upwards of $6,000.

One more thing. The old Singer post machine you mentioned is pretty much limited to using #69 bonded thread (aka T70), with a #110 (#18 US) needle (leatherpoint). That is what I found on the two such machines I owned. You may use smaller needles, such as a #11 or 12, with #46 bonded nylon (T50) thread. This would be for fine detailed pattern sewing on Cowboy boots, at 20 stitches per inch (25mm). leather belts are normally sewn with at least T70 and larger thread. Only the thinnest belts, say under 3mm, would have #69 (T70) thread. Once you cross over 3 to 4 mm, T90 would be better. Thicknesses from 5mm to 6mm are better sewn with T135. This is already beyond the range your old post machine can handle. FYI: I just sewed a double bridle leather belt yesterday, with #277 bonded thread, top and bottom. Only the biggest of the big machines can tension such thread and still hold down the leather as the needle ascends. This thread is four times the thickness.and strength of the largest thread the old Singer post machine can handle

I just now Grokked why we have been having a failure to communicate: You are not on the US measurements scale. Doh! Let me try to translate for you. When I say 1/2 inch, it means 12.5 mm in your system. One inch = ~25mm. 1/4" = 'about' 6mm. 8 ounces = 1/8" = ~3mm So, the ancient post machine you are hung up on cannot sew 12mm stitch lengths. It will be lucky to sew 3mm to 3.5mm stitches, at best. The maximum thickness, of SOFT leather it will sew is about 4 to 5 mm. The old Singer post machines don't have any place to mount an edge guide. You will have to get a dealer to fabricate one, or find a way to attach a drop down guide on the rear of the left side of the machine. Expect to spend about $150 to buy a drop down guide and have it professionally installed. Roller foot post machines were built that way. They are not converted from a regular straight stitch machine. The feed dog is circular and turns continuously in one direction as you sew. Regular feed dogs oscillate, moving forward to feed, then dropping down, moving forward and lifting again to feed the material. This is called drop feed. A straight stitch machine can have a roller foot substituted for its standard foot, but the feed will still be drop feed. Modern roller foot machines are available with a driven top roller. I strongly suspect that you have chosen the wrong type of sewing machine. Have you looked into cylinder arm, walking foot machines?

DavidL; I strongly suggest that you take some leather and visit nearby industrial sewing machine dealers. Show them the material and thickness you want to sew, tell them your budget, then see the nearest suitable machine or machines that can meet your minimum requirements. As for your earlier reply to my question asking how thick you wanted to sew, your answer was 1/2 inch. I only know of one post machine capable of sewing 1/2 inch thickness: a Puritan chainstitch machine. If you really meant you want to sew a stitch 1/2 long, I don't know any post machines that can do that. Most sew very tiny stitches. The ones I used to own managed up to 6 stitches per inch. But, I had to dink with the stitch length adjuster on the end of the handwheel to get even that length. A previous poster was correct about the handwheels on the old Singer post machines. They are about 4 inches in diameter. Now, if you want to get serious about this, get yourself a new 441 clone, sold, serviced and supported by one of our member-dealers. Or, buy one from a local industrial sewing machine dealer who will offer after-sales support. You are going to need it if you have little or no experience with industrial sewing machines. Expect to pay between $1600 to $3,000 dollars, depending on the make and accessories ordered. A budget of $400 will only get you an old clunker that in all likelihood won't meet any of your expectations. I know this because I went through it when I started sewing leather. I wasted a lot of time, leather and money figuring this out.

Are you saying in requirement #1 that you need to stitch 1/2 inch stitch lengths? If so, you are going to need a whole nuther kind of machine. The average post or light duty cylinder arm machine only sews as long as 5 to the inch. My big Cowboy CB4500 sews two to the inch, as does its little brother, the CB3200. Contact Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, or one of the other advertising dealers on our forum to see what they have that meets your requirements.

DavidL; what exactly are you going to sew on your ideal machine? Old machines are very limited compared to modern ones.

Go for the biggest and best machine from the get go (Cowboy CB4500, Cobra Class 4, Techsew 5100, Nick-O-Sew 441), all of which sew over n3/4 inches, or else, buy a Cowboy CB3200, from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, and limit your work to 1/2 inch of stacked leather. Lesser machines have less sewing capacities in thickness, hardness and thread size. More expensive machines are for seasoned pros making a daily living sewing harness, holsters, etc.

4 layers at 3 ounces = 12 ounces = 3/16 inch. If that is the thickest you are going to sew, and if 8 or 9 oz is the thinnest, almost any roller foot post machine will do, as long as the leather has a soft hand. Dense leather begs for a heavier duty machine than these post machines. A 45k25 is a good medium to heavy duty machine you can hand wheel to sew shoes, but it is rare. Are you restricting your search to old iron? There are some really good roller foot machines available for sale at reasonable prices, from our member-dealers (see ads on top of all pages here). I know of at least one that has both upper and lower rolling wheels driven and a large, M style bobbin. This would make a great shoe upper sewing machine. The old iron was usually only bottom feed and smallish bobbins. They are also used to sew hats and mocs.

Thanks Machinehead! I just ordered a couple boxes of prewound black bobbins from them. Also got a quart of Masters contact cement I was low on.

Thanks everybody for your replies. I finally found and bought a 29k71, two hours from home. It is a small bobbin, short arm patcher. It's the best I could find at a price I can afford. Now, I could use a source for boxes of prewound #69 black bonded nylon bobbins. I can't seem to find any using G search.

A cylinder arm walking foot machine would be perfect. Look for one that uses standard Singer 111 presser feet and uses standard system 135x17 needles. Most will handle #138 bonded nylon thread, for which #23 needles are perfect.

Only if you don't care how the bottom stitches look. All Puritan stitchers are chainstitch only. There is no bobbin.

I don't know how to reverse the wiring, but I do know how to reverse the direction of the belt: twist it once into a figure 8! I did that on my Fortuna skiver's clutch motor. It reversed the direction and caused no trouble for the last year.

Wow, Constabulary, you've got magic! You stated it should be so and now the topic is unpinned. How did this happen?

You're gonna hate me for pointing this out, Gregg, but that post was made in late 2008. The linked to page is long gone.

Thanks Gregg. I appreciate your words and the offline assistance you have provided from time to time. I am even beginning to think about getting a cylinder arm darning machine for use as a patcher. Gotta get something that sews in any direction, before the second week in August.

This tape is aggressive and can gum up lesser quality needles. Only use it with compound feed walking foot machines, or dual feed, as long as there is an inside presser foot around the needle. Patchers have trouble sewing through Venture Tape. I use titanium coated needles on my walking foot and patcher machines. This reduces the sticking when sewing through the tape. Unfortunately, system 794 needles don't seem to be available yet with titanium coating. When they are, I will switch over 100%. Mother Superior (Bob Purcell @ Superior Threads) turned me on to these needles. Embroiderers and quilters use them, as do some factory sewers. Made for better heat dissipation, they also help sew through basting tapes and glued items. However, they do cost more than regular steel needles.

Venture Tape is double-sided basting tape for leather, sold by Wawak.com, a US based tailors' supply company. It is available in 1/4 and 1/2 inch widths, on 60 yard rolls. I buy this tape, as well as most of my zippers and 1 ounce patcher spools of nylon thread from Wawak.

All of my wallets thus far have the backs folded over the interior by a solid 1/4 inch, or slightly more. I use 2oz pigskin mostly, for the entire construction. These are not fancy carved or stamped wallets, but smooth backed functional ones like you would buy at J.C. Penny or Macy's. When I make a stamped wallet, the edges are usually left unfolded, but dyed with shoe sole edge dye. If veg-tan worked back is to be folded over the interior, I skive the edges in about 3/8 inches all the way around.

Pictures of the top and bottom stitches would help. I use an edge guide and press my wallets against it as I sew. I also fold the back tightly over the interior and tape it down with 1/4" wide Venture Tape. Nothing moves this way. Did you run off any test stitches first? Maybe the upper or lower, or both tensions need adjustments.

I am gearing up for a motorcycle show in August and need to get a second patcher, ASAP. I prefer a long arm, large bobbin model, but, will consider a short arm, as long as it has a large bobbin. I only want the head (no base needed) as it will be hand-wheeled around patches on vests. Singer, Claes, or Adler, in good sewing condition. PM me via the forum if you have one you can let go of. If anybody in lower or mid-Michigan, or upper Ohio or Indiana has one I will come get it from you.