Wizcrafts

Bob Kovar; Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines: 866-362-7397

2 x 4 ounces = 8 ounces, sewn to 8 ounces = 16 ounces, + 3 ounces overlays = 19 ounces = ~5/16" This is at the upper end of the ability of the old Singer 111w155 machines, which can sew 20 ounces maximum. I think your best bet is to look for a walking foot machine with a 3/8" capacity. Consew 206RB-(1 - 5), Cowboy, Econosew, Tacsew, Juki, Chandler, Adler and Pfaff all have models that sew up to 3/8" with a triple feed system. We have at least three forum members who sell both new and used industrial sewing machines. Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines 866 362-7397: Bob Kovar Keystone Sewing: Greg ? Raphael Sewing: Ronnie ? I have been to Toledo and seen the hundreds of machines in stock there. If you can't find an affordable walking foot machine there, I give up. Bob Kovar also sells and installs the SewPro 500GR 3:1 gear reduction servo motors that allow total speed control, from one stitch every few seconds, up to about 6 or 7 stitches per second. If you get a decent used walking foot machine, mounted onto a table with that motor, your be set for a long time. These machines sew with #138 bonded nylon thread. It is possible to use #207 on top, if you use #138 in the bobbin.

I paid $176 shipped, last Winter. I guess the price is the same, but don't know for sure. Maybe some other members who bought one more recently can confirm the price. I do know somebody that bought one from that eBay seller and it had a larger pulley that was hard to replace. They are not standard pulleys, as the shaft is narrower than most clutch and servo motors. The pulleys are hard to remove and replacements are hard to find at this time. I have asked the eBay seller if he has other pulley sizes for this motor and will report here when I find out.

I was aware of that eBay seller and already checked them out. I bought my SewPro 500GR, with the preferred 2 inch pulley for leather stitchers already installed, for half the shipping charge this eBay store asks. That's why I recommended Bob Kovar for a good source for these motors. They are smaller bodied than clutch motors and do required a shorted v-belt than the original you are replacing.

So buy a servo motor that is easy to control! Bob Kovar sells a gear reduction SewPro 500GR that has excellent control-ability and lots of power at slow speed.

Forget about getting a walking foot zig-zag machine in your budget range. Not that one couldn't fall out of the sky and into your shop, but it's unlikely. That said, you can buy zig-zag flat foot, bottom feeders for under $900. The problem is that they are not designed to sew leather and may have a lot of trouble feeding it. Used straight stitching walking foot machines are plentiful and available within your price range. New ones are not. Be prepared to spend at least $1300 to $1500 for a half decent new walking foot machine, with a table and servo motor. A really good one, like a Juki, will cost over $2100 new, up to $3000. As for the big bobbin machines, they are available from various manufacturers, like Adler, Juki, Consew, Seiko, Chandler, Cowboy, Cobra, Techsew, Artisan and various clones. The big bobbin machines hold 50% more thread than standard bobbins. The Juki large bobbins are even bigger; holding double a standard load. If you are really lucky you may find somebody selling an old Juki LU-563 in the $850 range. Some of the aforementioned machines retailed for well over $2000, up to $4000 for Adlers. Someone who bought one of these top of the line machines new will not be likely to let it go for less than half of what they paid, unless it has problems. Note, that the quality of the stitching depends on the condition of the machine and the type of needle and thread you use.

How much shorter belt did you have to buy? You said that the pulleys are the same diameter, right?

Ronnie at Techsew sells a brand new type of servo motor with a push button speed system and a readout panel on the front face. You just tap the up or down buttons until your desired speed is shown.

If that is a patcher machine, with a large bobbin, it can sew with #138 thread, in a #22 or #23 needle. If you want to sew with the recommended #69 thread, get some #16 and #18 needles. Series 29x4 (leather point) needles are available in sizes from #12 or #14 up to #23 (I have each of the sizes in that range). I even have some #24 needles in 29x3 ball point.

I bought a SewPro 500GR servo motor for my walking foot machine, from forum member and sewing machine dealer Bob Kovar. It has built in 3:1 gear reduction, a 2" output pulley and a speed limiter knob on the back. While it bolted into the original clutch motor holes, it's shaft sits closer to the table than a clutch motor. Therefore, I needed a shorter v-belt to keep the motor adjuster above the bottom of its range. Since the original pulley was a bit larger than the one on this motor, I had to take off another inch from the belt. I finally settled on a two inch shorter belt, which centers the motor height adjuster. Bob Kovar's number is: 866-362-7397

This is deja vu! I had a 45K25 with a roller foot also. But, I didn't try to change it into a flat foot; just smoothed out the tracks it left with a spoon. However, I DID mount it onto a Singer patcher iron base and used it as a treadle machine! It needed hand help on the wheel, poking a #25 needle through heavy leather, but it sewed okay for small projects. The hand wheel is massive and adds torque. I wish I'd kept that machine!

The website is still under construction and not online at this time. But, I got this flyer for that machine when I got interested in it. I guess they use a different needle system (214xTW?) than I mentioned earlier. Here is a picture of a CB2500 all set up on a table and ready to go, from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. Bob Kovar can be reached at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, at: 866-362-7397

No. That model was built without a bobbin mechanism. It uses a looper instead, to form the chainstitch. That is all it will ever be.

If you want to sew with #69 thread, buy some #18 needles. #92 thread uses #20 needles and #138 thread uses #22 or 23 needles. All of those sizes are available from any well stocked dealer. That GA1 looks exactly like the Cowboy CB2500, which uses series 328 needles. Bob Kovar, whom I mentioned in my previous reply, sells Cowboy machines and has all types of industrial needle systems and sizes, including those you want.

If it uses series 328 needles, Bob Kovar has them for sale. Contact Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, at: 866-362-7397 He also has tons of thread, in all sizes.

I'm sorry. I gave information about the Singer 111w155 when you were asking about the 211w155. That series is newer and sleeker shaped and has more model numbers following it. The 211w156 has a reverse lever, which is not present on the 211w155.

The needle system refers to the designation, in this case, 135x16 and 135x17. The former is a leather point and the latter is round point. The needles in this system are almost 1 3/4" long and slightly over 1/16" in diameter, at the upper shank (that goes into the needlebar). They are sold in width sizes ranging from US #12 (metric 80) up to #25 (metric 200). This corresponds to a appropriate thread size range from #46 bonded nylon or "invisible" monofilament, up to #277 bonded nylon. The most common thread size used in sewing upholstery and leather garments is #69, also known as T70. It requires a #16 or #18 needle, depending on the thickness and density being sewn. Links to thread and needle charts have recently been posted in replies to similar questions. Search posts for "thread and needle chart" or "needle size chart." There is a Sticky topic at the top of this forum that explains how to choose the best size needle for any given thread size. Finally, to answer your last question, the 155 is sub-model designation, which happens to have a walking foot, triple feed system. The 155 is the last of the line for the 111 series and is the most sought after model. It stitches forward only. One must use the Poor Man's Reverse (turn the work around 180 degrees) to back tack. The 111 Singers must be manually oiled frequently. They have a safety clutch that disengages the bobbin drive if it gets jammed with thread. When that happens a button pops up on the bed. The bobbin mechanism is disengaged until you clear the tangled thread out. Then, you push down on the button and turn the hand wheel until the mechanism catches again and it locks back into time. Before this invention, a jammed bobbin case would throw the machine hopelessly out of time. The Singer 111w155 can sew leather up to 5/16".

In addition to Ferg's chart for the model 211, whatever clearance the pressor feet have, with the lifter on the back raised, subtract about 1/16" and that is the maximum sewing thickness. The biggest thread it handles is #138 bonded nylon. Without knowing what clearance your machine has under the raised feet, I'll have to guess it will sew about 5/16" maximum. It uses the standard walking foot needle system: 135x16 or 135x17. Clean it up, keep it oiled, replace any worn out parts, put a servo motor on it and she'll be cherry for another half century. Just don't wear it out trying to run #207 thread through it. The 591 is a garment sewing machine that is capable of also sewing light weight drapes. It uses a smaller needle system than the 111 and 211, and clones. Those needles top off at about size 21. The machine is not set-up to sew with anything heavier than #69 thread. It is for garment making, tailoring and drapery hemming, not for leather. Never was, never will be. Been there, done that. Don't be fooled by the strong appearance of industrial sewing machines. The skin does not reveal what is inside or how much pressure they can stand while working. Garment machines are not designed for sewing with heavy thread, big needles or dense payloads. You can easily knock them out of sync by trying to sew leather belts with them. In reality, the sturdy iron casings and bronze bearings on industrial machines are made that way to absorb the high heat from continuous high speed sewing. Most modern high speed garment machines have an oil pan, oil pump and wicks that distribute oil to moving parts and bearings. How does 3000, to 5000 stitches per minute sound for sewing a belt? NOT! Only walking foot, or harness machines are actually built leather tough. These are slower speed machines, with very thick take-up parts, heavy tension springs and sturdy drive systems. Most walking foot upholstery machines have a maximum sewing speed of 800 to 1000 stitches per minute. Most leather sewing machines are geared way down to about 160 to 320 stitches per minute (exception: Union Lockstitch; 800). Plunging a #25 or 27 needle, threaded with #277 nylon thread, into 1/2" to 3/4" of hard belt leather generates an incredible amount of friction and heat. I've seen smoke coming from leather and thread literally melting in the needle's eye, at 600 spi.

This is something that should go into its own new topic. Post it anew and I will answer your questions.

Ask the seller if the motor is 110 or 220 volt, in case you only have 110. Get all of his curved needles, bobbins and any linen thread and stitching wax he can spare. Beg for a manual, if he has it. Ask to be shown how to thread the top thread and wind the bobbins. Actually, a working demonstration will be your best bet. Bring some thick leather. This machine should be bolted onto a concrete floor, or at least set upon a level concrete floor. Oil it in every oil hole before using it. Make sure it turns by hand freely and is not jammed.

$200 is an awesome price for a sole stitcher! If you are going into the shoe repair business, this is a must have machine. This is a machine that sews around the perimeter of thick, dense leather items. If you are not into shoe repair, it is really of little practical use to you, unless you sew a lot of thick leather projects just along their outer edge. This would include hand cuff and ammo pouches, knife sheathes and some Western gun holsters with a single row of stitching. The machine uses 6 or 7 cord, right twist, waxed linen thread, (hot melted beeswax or Sellari's liquid wax). The thread is sold in one pound spools by Campbell-Bosworth and costs around $42 a spool. Needles are curved and expensive. Oh yeah; it weighs about 700 pounds

Did you order a shorter V-belt with it? You're going to need one. In my case, I replaced a clutch motor with a 2.5" pulley with a SewPro 500GR servo motor, touting a 2" pulley. I ended up requiring a V-belt 2 inches shorter that the original. The servo motor sits closer to the body than a clutch motor. If you neglected to get the belt with the motor, order one 1 inch shorter for just the motor, then another inch for each 1/2" difference in the diameter of the motor pulley.

Here is a picture of the sewing machine that the seller of this patcher is actually using for his excellent leather work. It is similar to the long arm Cowboy and Cobra and other Juki 441 clones sold over here. The only reasonable use for an ancient, 99 year old Singer patcher, is sewing patches onto vests and jackets, installing short zippers and fixing rips in bags, clothes, shoes and boots.

I would offer $100 to $150 tops for that old machine, especially since it is sold as head only. You are going to have to invest a lot of time and possibly some cash to fix it up. A machine in that condition was not well cared for. Plus, although the butterfly works, how badly worn is the crank mechanism inside it, that moves the pressor foot? A brand new 29k from that time period could only deliver 5 stitches per inch (5 mm long), into thin leather (4 oz). By the time you place 8 oz of leather under the foot, you'd be lucky to get 4 mm stitches. It goes downhill from there, until you max out at 16 oz thickness, at which time you'd get 3 mm stitches, maximum. If you are going to use the patcher to repair boots and shoes, tiny stitches are normal. Also, the old patchers are pretty much limited to thin thread, like #V69 / T70. You might however be able to run #92 through it. The stitch lengths I mentioned are for a tight, like new or completely rebuilt machine. If the patcher is as unserviced internally as it appears to be externally, you can probably cut the maximum stitch length by 25%, or worse. I have tested old patchers that struggled to yield even 8 stitches per inch (per 2.5 cm), on 4 oz leather. Take some pieces of 4 ounce leather and try it out. If it yields close to 5 mm stitches in one layer, the drive mechanism is tight. Thread it up, including the bobbin and make sure it stitches properly, top and bottom, from 4 ounces, up to 16 ounces (4 pieces). If the foot has difficulty moving the leather enough to form a reasonable stitch length, it is worn out and will require dis-assembly and shimming or brazing of worn out parts.

I have never had a v-belt with much more than a 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch deflection. With 1.25" you will probably have a lot of slippage under heavy loads. Tighten up that belt Trainee!