Wizcrafts

My harness stitcher is a Union Lockstitch Machine and I stand to operate it. The floor pedals are near the left edge of the pedalbar and it is too awkward to sit on a high stool with my legs at an angle to the right, while facing the needle-awl area of the machine.

Content to be added and updated on an ongoing basis. Welcome to the Leatherworker.net Leather Sewing Machines Forum! If you are new to this forum and you are seeking information about the right type of sewing machine you'll need to sew leather, you're in the right place. Everything stated below is either my honest opinion, or the honest opinions of other members of this forum. We all have personal hands-on experience sewing a broad range of leather projects on a broad range of sewing machines. Most of us have worked our way up, trying different machines, fixing up old ones, modifying them, tricking them out, all in usually fruitless efforts to sew something they are simply not capable of sewing. This is especially true when it comes to sewing leather. Leather varies in texture, weight, stickiness, thickness, density, dryness and chemical composition. No doubt, some of you have seen pictures and videos online, showing this or that machine sewing leather. Those pictures are uploaded by the seller of the machine, to broaden their purchasing audience. What many first time sewers don't realize, is that just because a particular machine is said to be able to "sew leather," that does not mean it will do it well for the types of leather the buyer wants to sew. Leather varies, as stated above. The machines that can sew garment weight leather may not be able to sew chaps, belts, tack, holsters, or saddle bags. Just because a machine is large, or metal bodied, or or even industrial, does not make it a true leather sewing machine! First, I will address the machines seen on eBay, sold as Industrial Strength sewing machines. Most are all metal and proudly state that fact. The sellers talk about the "powerful" 1.2 or 1.5 amp motors that are attached. Some even have ribbed drive belts and gear reduction, to eliminate slippage when sewing thick material. No doubt these are strong machines. I have a few myself. I have 2 old iron body Singers and a metal body Kenmore, even an ancient White Rotary machine. Will they sew leather? Yes, two layers of 2 to 4 oz garment leather. Will they sew leather with nylon thread? Yes, but no bigger than #69 nylon. Will they smoothly feed garment leather as it is sewn? Yes, as long as it is fairly small in size and weight and not stitcky on the top grain. If the top is sticky, no way, Jose. Sticky vinyl and leather usually gets dragged back by the top pressor foot and the stitches are either too short, or filigree the material, or skip frequently. Sticky material, like smooth top grain chrome tanned garment leather and Naugahyde (vinyl), does not feed evenly unless the pressure on the "pressor foot" is reduced significantly. All of the feeding is done from the bottom, by the teeth in what are know as "feed dogs." The pressor foot has to apply enough pressure to the top of the material to keep it from moving between stitches and also to prevent it from lifting with the needle, as the needle begins its ascent. This is when the thread in the needle's eye forms a loop for the rotating or oscillating "shuttle" pickup point to grab. The grabbed top thread is then pulled around the bobbin case and bobbin thread, which is pulled up by the lifting take-up lever, to create the lockstitch inside the material. If the top pressure is insufficient for the thickness and density of material being sewn, the material will lift with the ascending needle and top thread. When this happens the loop may not be formed and there will be skipped stitches. Even if the material is held down by the foot to form the stitches, the spring pressure may not be enough to hold down dense veg-tan leather when the take-up lever lifts up. If the leather lifts during the take-up phase the stitch length will vary wildly, the layers may slide out of alignment and the needle may deflect and break. This can also cause skipped stitches. In an effort to overcome the problem of feeding sticky vinyl and leather, sewing machine companies and aftermarket manufacturers produce add on pressor feet to make it easier to feed these materials. Some dealers sell replacement feet with little rollers inside them (roller feet), or teflon plastic feet that claim to allow sticky material to feed better that steel feet. Others sell actual rolling wheel pressor foot attachments and sets, where the foot, feed dog and throat cover plate are replaced as a group. Finally, you can usually find a replacement foot called an "even feed" foot, or "walking foot" attachment. It contains an inner and outer pressor foot, which alternate up and down as the needle moves up and down. This is done by a lever that is hooked on top of the needle screw on the needle bar. The inner foot presses down and moves as the needle lifts out of the material and the feed dogs pull the material back. When the feed dogs reach the preset stitch length they drop down (drop feed) and the inside foot lifts up with the raised needle bar and snaps forward. The outer foot then drops to hold the material in place until the needle has penetrated the work again and is ready to form the next stitch. This is not a true walking foot, as is used in true walking foot machines. It is an effort to improve the feeding ability of the wrong machine for the job. An add-on walking foot will not actually help you feed heavy garments or chaps through the machine, but it will allow the leather or vinyl to move and stitch without stitcking to the bottom of the pressor foot, allowing you to increase the pressure to prevent lifting, shortened stitches, or skipped stitches. If the material being sewn is long and wide, or heavy, your machine will have trouble pulling it back to form the stitches, despite having the even feed attachment installed. There are no teeth on the bottom of the pressor feet and the material can slide easily with a little tug, or from the weight of the work folding over the front of the work table. I have learned that these even feed attachments usually reduce the clearance under the feet. This means you cannot sew as much thickness as with the standard foot. If you raise the pressor foot bar for more clearance, the needle bar, or top thread guide on the bottom of the needle bar will hit the inner pressor foot. They are a compromise feed system. Even if you are able to feed the material through an industrial strength sewing machine, you are going to be limited in the thickness that it can sew, as well as the size of thread it can handle and the sizes of needle it can use. Number 69 bonded nylon thread is fine for leather vests or small vinyl projects, but is not so good for upholstery or chaps, or anything thicker, like belts and bags. For these projects, you'll want to use at least twice the size of thread: #138. At this point, most home machines drop out of the picture. Even a lot of actual industrial machines will not sew with #138 or larger nylon thread. They might be able to sew soft polyester or cotton thread in larger sizes, often sold a button or topstitch thread. To properly sew leather you need an actual Walking Foot sewing machine. In my next installment I will define the various types of walking foot machines and what makes a dedicated leather stitcher different from a leather-capable sewing machine. I have to go earn my keep now, but maybe some other members will add to this topic. Later! Barra; Joanne; can this become a Sticky topic?

Most are first time buyers of industrial sewing machines and come here from the Sewing Leather Forum. Someone may have told them that they need an "industrial" sewing machine, but not the exact type or feed system. Without any background knowledge of what is actually required to sew various types and thicknesses of leather, they go for what looks like a big, heavy duty machine, only to find out here that it can't do what they thought it could. I, as well as many of the other sewing professionals here, had to work our way up through a variety of sewing machines, until we got the right machine for the jobs we need to sew. We spent a lot of time, money and frustration trying to kit-bash old machines, or wrong machines, into leather stitchers. After a lot of wasted resources we bought the best machine we could afford, that was actually capable of feeding and sewing thick leather. My first industrial machine (1984) was an old Singer 96k40, which I eventually converted into a roller foot feed. Still, all it could sew was leather garments and chaps, with #69 thread, tops. From its appearance, I thought it would sew 10-12 oz of belt leather without hesitation, but I was wrong. Ya live and learn. I will try to write-compile an article detailing this matter and perhaps it will be sticky'd. The title will be targeted at newbies to leather sewing. I and others have already posted most of the information that newbies need to read, but it has floated out of the current posts. Note: No disrespect is meant by the term "newbie." It defines a point in time where a person has yet to gather any meaningful experience in a particular subject they wish to pursue. Our forum exists, among other goals, to help bring newbies up to speed. For those, like "Stocksuspension," who have already bought an inadequate industrial machine, they can try to sell it through our own Machinery for Sale section, or their local Craigslist, for free.

I have a Union Lockstitch harness stitcher that can sew much bigger thread than #277, into 3/4" of anything under the foot. It is a needle and awl machine. PM me if interested in more details. It is located in mid-Michigan, for pickup only.

Short, tight stitches can be caused by too much top or bottom tension, or both. Also, since your machine has a flat, static foot, too much pressure on it will drag leather and vinyl and reduce the maximum stitch length.

Have you tried moving the stitch regulator knob to the longest stitch setting? If so, and it is too short, remove the stitch regulator knob and manually set its control cam to the longest possible position. The feed dog will only move so far, so you will have to max the setting with the adjuster knob off.

No. You can fit 1/4" under the pressor foot, but it is doubtful you will be able to stitch that much leather, unless it is soft leather. Also, you are limited to using #69 nylon thread and a #18 needle. This is fine for leather garments, or latigo, but not belts, holsters, or harness. Most leather goods 1/4" thick are sewn with #138 bonded nylon thread, top and bottom. A 99K is not equipped to handle #138 thread, or the #22 needle it requires. Furthermore, the 99K is a flat foot, drop feed machine. If you try to sew 1/4" of medium temper leather you will have to increase the pressure spring on the pressor foot, possibly all the way down. This increases the drag on the top grain and will cause the stitch length to vary all over the place and the layers will move out of alignment, from top drag. If you don't increase the foot pressure, the needle may lift the leather as it begins its ascent. This causes the top thread to not form a loop under the cover plate. Without a loop, no top thread is picked up and pulled around the bobbin, leading to skipped stitches. If you must use such a machine, at least fit it with a roller pressor foot.

Since you intend to use this machine to sew upholstery projects you will probably need to purchase a special roller foot equipped with steel rollers. Or buy a flip down roller foot conversion set. Most dealers have these items, or you can find them on eBay. The standard foot may not feed properly, depending on the softness or stickiness of the top grain of the material (leather and vinyl) and length of the project being sewn. Normally, vinyl and garment/upholstery leather are sewn on a compound feed walking foot machine, also known as triple feed. Your machine is single, bottom feed and is designed to sew cloth and denim. Here is your to do checklist: get proper system DBx1 (a.k.a. 1738) industrial needles, in sizes 16, 18, 20 and 22 (regular and leather point), in packs of ten if you now have a clutch motor, get a speed reducer, or a 2" motor pulley (will need a longer belt), or a replacement 1/2 hp servo motor with a speed limiter knob (Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines and other dealers) get a roller foot pressor foot, or roller foot conversion kit (see ) get #69 and #138 bonded nylon thread, in the colors you want to use, two spools each (1 for top 1 for bobbin). I recommend getting 1 pound spools for most used colors. get more bobbins and bobbin cases (with anti-backlash springs) get a quart or gallon of industrial sewing machine oil watch all of the industrial sewing videos you can find on YouTube get the proper long and short screw drivers for the pressor foot, needle clamping screw, cover plate and feed dog screws.

Here is showing how to thread an industrial machine similar to yours. Note, that if you intend to sew upholstery material, whether leather, leatherette, cloth, or vinyl, you will probably need at least #69 bonded nylon thread, in a # 18 needle. For a better appearance, try #138 nylon thread with a #22 needle.Get a speed reducer, or a servo motor with a smaller pulley, so you don't burn up the thread when sewing leather and vinyl. And, keep the machine oiled!

The Juki is an industrial machine, which uses series DBx1 industrial needles, not home style needles. The machine is a very high speed straight stitch machine, designed for sewing denim garments.

You left out the numbers after the dash, which are important for knowing what feed type it is. Roughly speaking, a 5/10 Singer 111 is worth about $250 to $300. A mint condition model might go for $400. Some of the Singer 111 series are straight needle/flat foot and some are walking foot machines. If it is a walking foot machine it should be able to sew upholstery, jeans and medium temper leather, up to 5/16", or maybe even 3/8" (slowed way down and thread run through a silicon lube pot). It uses the common 135x16 leather point and 135x17 standard point needle system, which are available in sizes 14 to 25. The 111 machines will sew up to #138 thread, top and bobbin, but the sweet spot is using #69 nylon. To sew belt leather, or skirting, the machine needs a speed reducer and a 1/2 horsepower (1725 rpm) clutch or servo motor. These machines need to be oiled frequently. They were used in the Korean War to sew parachutes.

Geoff; Check the screws on the gears driving the bobbin shuttle. If there are any that are finger loose, tighten them as much as possible. Make sure that the sliding shafts with gear teeth are not causing the bumps. They should be held in place by the bottom cover plate, under the bobbin area of the arm. Make sure that plate is tightly secured. Also, follow the moving parts under the machine and see if there is any binding at the coupling points. Maybe one gear or connecting rod has become loose??? Check the way the bobbin is inserted into its case. It should feed against the rotation, with the thread feeding through the slot, under the little spring, through the tiny thread hole, up through the hole in the cover plate. If you can track down the cause of the bumps and fix that item, all should return to normal.

If you use a zig zag machine to sew leather that is hard, it may cause the needle to deflect sideways, even when you want to sew straight. That is my experience.

Here is a description of what that Singer industrial sewing machine is designed to sew: "Suitable for stitching such products as blouses, shirts, men's, ladies and children's apparel, uniforms, overalls, lingerie, etc." It will handle thread up to #69 bonded nylon, which has an 11 pound breaking point. It is a tailors' machine, with a small pulley on the flywheel, enabling it to sew at very high speed. The springs that create top tension on the pressor foot and thread are set to garment material strength. You will have wasted you money if you buy this type of machine to sew leather. It simply will not sew 3/8" of veg-tan, especially hardened leather. What you need to sew armor is at a minimum a heavy duty leather stitcher designed from the ground up for slow speed, big needle, large thread size stitching up to 7/16". The Cowboy 2500 is such a machine and is available at a very reasonable price from Bob Kovar, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. His phone number is 866-362-7397. Call him and see what kind of deal he can offer you, or what alternate machines he has in stock, new or used, that will sew 3/8" hard leather, with #277 nylon thread and a #200/25 needle. Be prepared to spend around a thousand dollars for a CB 2500, or similar machine, based on the old Singer 45 class machines. Here is a scan of the product sheet he sent to me for the CB 2500.

I always wanted a Randall stitcher, but had to settle for a Union Lockstitch Machine. It was neat seeing the photo of the old Cyclone Machine. I wonder how many spi it can handle?

BVM; There are special cording/welting feet available for just about every type of sewing machine. They come in various sizes, to place the stitch right next to the right edge of a covered cord. Just figure out which diameter you need for a cord covered with the leather your want to use and order it online. Bob Kovar stocks a good selection of welting feet, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. I have welting/cording feet for my household and walking foot machines. The walking foot and straight stitch industrial machines have a wide range of sizes available, from 1/8" to over 1/2" diameter covered cords.

Good point! There are indeed American made leather sewing machines, still in production, or available as rebuilds. Actually, these should be referred to as "leather stitchers" not sewing machines. They are specially designed to stitch together very thick leather, with very heavy thread. These American made stitchers include: Luberto Classic (similar to the old Number 9) Luberto Cub Tippmann Boss Union Lockstitch Campbell-Randall Pilgrim Landis Ferdinand Bull, et al (I don't know if they are built in the USA) This is not all of them, as you can still get rebuilt Champion, Tippmann Aerostitch and American Straight Needle machines from various rebuilders.

That machine looks like it will handle the materials you intend to sew. You should test the machine first and see if you are able to control it at slow speeds for sewing belt leather. You can also contact Techsew (Raphael Sewing) in Montreal and see what they have to offer. They have several types of leather and upholstery sewing machines, including some super heavy duty machines. The company advertises here and has a good reputation. You won't have to worry about Customs. Their toll free phone number, in Canada, is: 866-415-8223

I'm glad you are open to our opinions, which are very strong on this forum. Most of the pros here have worked their way up through many sewing machines to get to where we are today. While we cannot decide what you should do with your own money we can offer learned advice. My advice is to go with a Cobra, Cowboy, or Artisan long arm 441 clone. I personally think that the best choice would be between the first two, as I know the dealers personally and have spoken to both about their machines. You will definitely get more than your money's worth from our member dealers. They are available personally to answer any questions you have and to fix any mechanical problems that may arise. The Cobra and Cowboy line of machines are custom built to leather-sewing specifications for the US dealers who promote them. Additions are made when they are unpacked, then they are adjusted, mated to a motor/table and sewn off. There is a big difference between a stock 441 type machine and a specially setup leather stitcher. Our dealers install special leather and harness stitching pressor feet, guides and throat plates, plus they make proper adjustments to the clearances inside the machine. A leather sewing machine has to endure a tremendous amount of pounding, as huge needles and thread penetrate 3/4" of often hard leather. I hope this helps.

Off Topic Security Warning! I noticed that several of our members have posted their email addresses in replies on this topic and others. You good folks need to know that spammers send out robot programs whose sole purpose is to scour web pages for email addresses. Every email address that is recognized by these bots is harvested and sent home to a spam database. Your freely posted email accounts will then be spammed. Your harvested email addresses will not just be used to send you spam, but will also be forged in the "From" and "Reply to" fields of spam sent to others. This means you will get bounces or be accused of spamming by recipients unfamiliar with how spammers conduct their campaigns. How to avoid having email addresses harvested You can prevent most email harvester bots from acquiring your posted email addresses by obfuscating them. This means that you need to use spaces, extra words to be removed, substitute the word AT for the @ symbol and use the word DOT instead of a period in your address. The more obfuscated the address is the less likely it is to get harvested. Example: yourname at yourISP dot com (Remove the spaces and convert the AT and DOT) This does make a little more work for people who want to email something legitimate to you, but it may keep a previously un-spammed account from getting into a spam database through a forum posting. For better security you should only list your email account in your profile and tell other members to use the link in the forum posts or your profile to send you email or private messages. Only members have access to this feature. This adds to the work that a spammer must do to reach you and most don't have the time to do so, or even read English as their native language. Another mistake that can cause your email address and those of your friends to be harvested is to send a group mailing using the C.C. field for the recipients. If just one recipient has a malware infection that includes an email harvester, every name in the CC list will be harvested. Instead of CC, use the BCC field. The recipients will only see their own name and the words Unspecified Recipients in the TO field. This is much safer than exposing your entire group of friends to spambots. I have been involved in the anti-spam community for a decade and I see these mistakes frequently. The results are always the same.

You're welcome Hipshot! Let us know what you find after you disassemble the head and pressor foot drive assembly. Once you build up all clearances to factory specs the machine will do a fine job on most projects under 1/4" thick. Just remember, the machine was made to sew boots, not belts.