Wizcrafts

The Singer is made to topstitch parts on shirts and underwear, while the Pfaff chainstitch machine is designed to sew the inside seams on shirts and underwear.

That looks like a 96K40 tailors' machine. I had one from 1986 until 2005. It is useful for sewing leather vests after you replace the pressor foot, throat plate and feed dog with a roller foot conversion. It uses system 1728? needles, available up to size 21 and is able to sew with up to #92 thread. The pressor foot lift determines the sewing capacity, which is usually 1/4". You might be able to trick up the foot a tad more, to allow you to sew 5/16", but that is pushing the machine beyond its design limits. Do not consider the 96K to be a leather sewing machine, just because somebody has sewn leather on one. This was actually my first industrial machine purchase. After going through a half dozen other machines and several thousand wasted dollars, I finally bought a true heavy duty compound feed walking foot machine, then a Union Lockstitch machine and have never looked back since. Point of interest: My Father was a Tailor and had a 96K40 in his shop. I learned to sew on it. He used it to hem pants, coats and other garments, for customers needing alterations.

Yes, the bottom teeth will leave some marks. They can be rubbed out or smoothed with a plastic or bone slicking tool, or a modeling spoon. Another trick to get rid of tooth marks is to flip the holster upside down on a hard surface and tap along the stitch lines with a cobblers hammer. This sets the thread well into both surfaces and removes most tooth marks. This would be followed by edging and final finishes. I suggested that the O.P. drive from Cleveland to Toledo, to try out various machines with his own leather. That way he will get the best machine for the job, appearance and available money.

Both Bob Kovar and I have mentioned in our replies that the Tacsew 111 will not handle thread sizes larger than #T135/V138, without grief. We are both referring to bonded nylon thread. Number 135/138 bonded nylon thread has a breaking point of about 24 pounds of pull and can be sewn using a #22 needle. This is technically adequate for a pancake style holster with a gently drawn gun, but not for a competition or police holster, where a tightly secured weapon may be drawn quickly and without finesse, in a life or death situation. For these you should use at least #277 bonded nylon or bonded polyester. The bonded 277 thread has a tensile strength of about 45 pounds and is thick enough to give a solid appearance to the stitches. This thread size requires a #24 or #25 needle. Most commercial holsters are sewn together with either #346 bonded thread, or 5 cord waxed linen thread (requires a needle and awl stitcher). This presents a solid, professional top appearance which will withstand years of use and abuse. The waxed linen thread has the advantage of being locked at every stitch, by the wax hardening in the knots. If one stitch breaks, the rest usually stay put, just like happens on leather soles of shoes (sewn with 6 cord bees-waxed linen thread). The thread and needle sizes I am referring to are usually beyond the normal handling capability of upholstery machines. For instance, I have a souped up walking foot machine (Consew 206RB clone), paired to a special gear reduction servo motor. When I install a #25 needle and thread it with #277 thread, the needle can barely penetrate 2 layers of 9-10 oz belt leather, at slow speed. After a few stitches the needle tends to get caught in the leather and either skips stitches, melts the thread, or bunches it up underneath. A heavy duty leather stitcher, like a 45 class, or 441 class machine, is built with stronger bearings, casings, moving/take-up parts, bigger pressor and needle bars, heavier top pressure and tension disk springs and a huge bobbin, which sits inside a large shuttle case that has sufficient clearance for #346 thread in the bobbin and for the top thread and big needles. These machines will penetrate thick, hard leather, with a big needle, threaded with thick thread, without binding or breaking parts. The extra heavy top pressure spring with hold the foot down on the leather, as the needle withdraws to form the stitch, preventing skipped stitches. These machine usually are equipped with a lube pot on top, which are meant to keep the top thread lubricated and to provide cooling of the needle, which gets seriously hot going through so much leather. Such machines are designed to sew maximum thicknesses of 7/16" (45 class) up to 3/4" (441 class), depending on the model and how the needle/pressor foot/feet is/are setup. All of the new super heavy leather stitchers come with a 1/2 or 3/4 hp servo motor and a speed reducer, for serious punching power. There is no way for an upholstery sewing machine to match the handling capability of a designated leather stitcher. Yes, they will sew 3/8" if adjusted to raise high. Yes, they can sew with #207 top thread and maybe even #277, with #138/207 in the bobbin, which hopefully is a large M size bobbin. But, they are more likely to have problems sewing into 3/8" with #207 thread than a bigger machine like the ones described above, which can sew with #346 thread, into well beyond 3/8" of belt or bridle leather.

You are talking about an upholstery walking foot machine, based on the decades old Singer 111w155 series, which is the grandfather of today's walking foot machines. It not built for sewing thick leather or thick thread. It is just a few hundred dollars cheaper that the real leather stitcher I suggested you ask about (Cowboy 2500). Our dealers specialize in machines that are actually capable of feeding and sewing thick leather with heavy thread. Ebay sewing machine vendors do not usually carry such machines. Here is a scan I made from a product sheet for the Cowboy 2500, which should be perfect for making the holsters you described. There are optional pressor feet and a swing-down edge guide available at a reasonable price. They should have one setup to try out, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. I don't know if the prices in the scanned sheet are still in effect, or are lower or higher now. I got this flyer about a year ago.

The 29k2 should be fine for small runs of mocs. You will be limited to smaller thread sizes (#92 top and & #69/92 bobbin), which should not be a problem for mocs. I don't know about mucs. The machine you asked about is almost a century old shoe patcher. It has a tiny bobbin and produces very short stitches once you exceed 1/8" of leather. If the foot drive mechanism is worn out you may not get better than 7 or 8 stitches per inch. Its thickness limit is 1/4" under the foot. If you can try the machine before you buy it, do so. If the drive puck is worn out (very short stitches at max setting) and the moving parts are rusty, pass on it. If the seller wants more than $100 - $200, pass on it.

Deanimator; The advice you are receiving, about the sewing machines better suited to holster making, comes from lots of experience. We are trying to save you the time, frustration and expense of working your way up to the machine you needed all along. The type of machine I suggested is really only suitable for flat leather sewing, where the bottom can have tooth marks without ruining the job. If you cannot have teeth marks from the feed dog you will need to move up further, to a compound feed walking foot, or needle and jumping foot machine. If you can gather together a couple of grand, you can buy a new heavy cylinder arm machine capable of sewing up to 3/4". If one thousand becomes your limit, get the strongest machine you can find. It should be a dedicated leather sewing machine, not an upholstery machine and definitely not a garment machine or home machine. If you have never sewn with an industrial machine you may have trouble operating one with a clutch motor. Instead, buy one with a servo motor installed. Some setups have a speed reducer between the motor and machine flywheel. Another type, sold by Bob Kovar, in Toledo, has a built-in speed reducer. I bought one and like it a lot. It really punches through thick leather and is very easy to control with the floor pedal. Since you are already in Ohio, Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines should be a logical choice. Bob Kovar, the owner, is the US dealer for the Cowboy line of heavy leather stitchers. He also has many used machines (not Cowboy) in stock. Take some leather there and try you out some machines!

You are going to need to at least double the amount you wanted to spend to get an entry level industrial machine that is suitable for "low to medium volume" production of the holsters you have described. Your least expensive machine is based on the ancient Singer 45K series cylinder arm machines that have long cylindrical bobbins and a flat pressor foot. A Cowboy 2500 is reasonably priced around a grand and can sew up to almost 1/2" of leather, with #346 thread and a #26 needle. It is a bottom feed, straight stitch machine, with a non-walking flat foot, a heavy top pressure spring, plus beefed up thread tension and take-up parts. Such a machine will sew the types of holsters you described. Contact Bob Kovar, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, at 866-362-7397, for more details and the actual price.

Eddie; From your answers and your last statement, it is my opinion that you require a "square feed" stitcher. I don't know all of the machines that have this system, but I do know that the Union Lockstitch, Campbell-Randall and the Luberto Classic all have square feed and a jump foot. If you get a chance you might try getting in touch with Mr. Luberto (1-800-419-9898) about his Classic stitchers, which resemble the old Number 9 machines. The feed is done entirely by the needle, which is pulled straight back, after penetrating all layers, with the pressor foot up. The pressor foot comes down, then the needle moves up and out. Because the needle movement is not pivoting, but is square, or straight back, all layers move at exactly the same speed. This includes gradual transitions, as well as instant layer increases. I believe that that long out-of-production Ferdinand Bull machines also used a square feed and jump foot. I don't know of any other machines currently in production that work that way, aside from the ones mentioned earlier. I think of these machines as thickness/layer agnostic. BTW: Campbell-Bosworth (1-800-223-6018) is the current owner of the Union Lockstitch machine name, and is the supplier of all parts and accessories for them.

The answers to the following questions will help us provide you the the best recommendations. 1: What are you sewing on the ULS machines? 2: Are you using any special pressor feet (stitch-in-the-ditch, stepping, cording), or just the stock feet? 3: Are you using a flat or a raised throat plate? 4: What type (linen+wax, nylon, polyester) and size of thread (numbers or cords) are you using? 5: What range of thicknesses are you sewing on the ULS machines? 6: Are you sewing through plywood, sole leather, or rawhide? 7: How much space does your work require to the right of the needle and awl (to the inside of the machine)? 8: Are you using a swing away roller edge guide on the throat plates? 9: Are you sewing with the clutch feathered, or geared down, or at full speed (800 spi)? If it turns out you are sewing with a standard pressor foot and throat plate, into harness, bridle or skirting leather, at or under 3/4", you might be able to switch to a major cylinder arm walking foot machine. They are available from dealers who are members of this forum and come in a variety of arm lengths, with various pressor feet and throat plates used for anything from belts, to bridles, to holsters. Some may even have stitch-in-the-ditch pressor feet available. They also have various speed and motor packages to suit your work. These machines go by brand names such as Adler, Cobra, Cowboy, Techsew and Toro (by Artisan), among others. All are new and fully supported and have plenty of accessories available for special jobs. Once I see your answers I will try to offer more suggestions. If it turns out you really do need a needle and awl stitcher, the only good option remains Campbell-Randall-Bosworth. They are used by Freedman Harness, day in and day out, to produce show harness for the most demanding clientele. They are huge, slow, hold tons of thread (linen+lax wax or bonded polyester), and sew the most beautiful stitch you will ever see.

The only viable replacement for a Union Lockstitch Machine would be a Campbell-Randall needle and awl stitcher, from Campbell-Bosworth, in Yoakam, Texas. They are members of this forum and can provide you with all the details. I have a Union Lockstitch machine, which I am rebuilding and I am curious why you want to replace yours? If yours is no longer in use, do you have any extra parts, needles, awls, bobbins, or accessories you are willing to let go of?

Suem; I happen to have the patcher you are looking for and I am willing to sell it. It is a Singer 29k172, big bobbin, 18" arm patcher, on a treadle base, in perfect working order. It sews a bit over 1/4" of leather and the foot lifts about 5/16". This is the darning model, which has a turnable T-bar by the needlebar and a darning tension disk set. When the T-bar is turned inline with the needlebar, the foot is lifted off the material, allowing you to sew any stitch length, by hand pull. I am located in Flint, Michigan. If you are interested in driving that far contact me via the forum PM.

ANSWERS Q1: No. The term 1/4" Welt refers to the diameter of the round cording and material covering it, that a specially designed welting foot is made to sew. This is an upholstery foot with a rounded out area that sits over covered cords, to sew close to the edge to make piping, which fastens seams together with a professional appearance. Q2: Yes. You absolutely need a walking foot machine for the work you first described. A roller foot might also do the job, but not as well as a compound feed walking foot. Q3: Drop Feed indicates that there are feed dogs under slots in the throat plate. These dogs have teeth that pulls the work to form a stitch length between stitches. Some machines have a knob or lever that actually drops the feed dogs so they never touch the material. This allows one to perform hand or hoop embroidery. Q4: A full rotary hook simply rotates 360 degrees around the bobbin and bobbin case. Many machines use that system, as it is simple to deploy. The opposite is an oscillating hook, which rotates so far one way, grabs the thread off the eye of the needle and rotates a little further, until the thread falls around the bobbin, then backs up to repeat the process. This system allows one to use thicker thread than a full typical rotary system. Q5: For sewing leather on a portable machine you should look for one with a 1.5 amp motor and a built-in speed reducer. Most portable walking foot machines are so equipped. Q6: Alphasew is about as good as any of these portable Chinese machines. Until you spend over $500 you are in the lower end of the manufacturing scale. The Sailrite machines are much stronger and more reliable than the less expensive knockoffs. If you only intend to sew a small amount of leather, or nothing exceeding 1/4", the cheaper machines should do just fine. Pick one with the longest warranty against manufacturing defects, in case a gear or shaft breaks, or the motor burns out. BTW: You initially said you want to sew up to 3 layers of 6 ounce material. That come to 18 ounces, or 9/32" - so look for a machine capable of lifting the foot about 3/8" and capable of sewing 5/16".

None of the machines you listed are going to sew leather. I would recommend that you look into getting a portable walking foot machine. They range in price from about $300 up to over $700. The Sailrite are the cream of the crop. The Consew 206rp? is in the middle and the unpronounceable name brands are at the bottom of the scale. Sewmun at aol dot com - on this forum - has one of those machines he sells, but I don't know the details. He's at the Sheridan show until next week.

I sometimes have my top thread twist off of the regulator spring and disk and form a turn over its shaft. This causes a neat filigree effect as the top thread pretty much seizes and the stitch length becomes 32 to the inch. This is the disk with a take-up spring, typically under the main thread tension disks. When I mentioned checking the top thread to ensure that it is feeding properly, it was from experience.

Here are some possible causes of the bad stitches. The bobbin may be warped or have a sharp edge or gouge that causes the thread to hang as it passes that point. The bobbin case may be the wrong case for your machine. The bobbin case may have a nick where the bobbin thread feeds through the slot and under the spring. The bobbin case spring may be bent up too much and does not provide normal, smooth pressure to the bobbin thread. The bobbin case spring may have a rough spot on it. The shuttle pick-up point may be damaged by the needle hitting it and could cause the thread to bind as it goes around the bobbin case. The needle may be too big for the thread and work being sewn. The needle may have a nick on the point. The needle may be bent or have leather burned onto it. The top thread may be feeding improperly, or catching on the regulator spring shaft instead of feeding around the disk, or could be doubling over the thread guides or a thread post with holes. The top thread might be twisted around the loop in the thread stand. The top thread might be getting caught under the bottom of the spool, on the thread stand. The thread may be defective. The leather may have tough or weak areas inside it that affect the stitch quality. Check all of these items to eliminate them or confirm one or more as the cause. A sewing machine is designed to allow you to balance the top and bottom tensions to achieve a perfect stitch, as long as you stay within the range of thread sizes and needles recommended for that machine. Are you using thread sizes that your machine is made to handle?

That patcher will sew a bit over 1/4" of leather, using #69 thread. It has the small bobbin which will hold enough #69 thread to sew a couple of belts, or a pair of boots, which it was designed for. The maximum clearance under the lifted pressor foot is 3/8", but the working lift maxes out at 1/4". This limits these machines to patching boots, shoes, jackets, or thin belts and straps. They are really good for zipper installations and applying decorative patches to leather vests. The patchers all have top feed only, via the teeth on the bottom of the pressor foot. The foot rotates 360 degrees, via a butterfly adjuster under the head. It is worth $400 to a shoe repair shop. A saddler would be better off buying a cylinder arm heavy duty stitcher.

The point on the oscillating shuttle is only designed to pick the thread off the needle when it moves in one direction. After picking off the loop it allows it to flow around the shuttle and bobbin housing, forming the lockstitch. If you run it in reverse, the timing will be wrong, the point will not pick up the loop on the needle and no stitch will be formed.

What dream machine? I was talking about a portable WF machine that can sew up to 3/8" of leather without bogging down or breaking parts. The $500 price was off the top of my head, not etched in stone. I am not interested in becoming a sewing machine builder or importer, nor do I have any money to invest in such a venture. Had I known that my making a suggestion for an intermediate level machine for new sewers was going to trigger such a backlash, I never would have posted it. I didn't think I was telling anyone what to do. A simple "it's not cost effective" would have sufficed, but you are making this into a big deal. I have no wish to continue this argument with you Art. I'm sorry I ever brought it up.

Art; First of all, the $649 price at AB is for the basic setup version of the machine. Now you are looking at an $849.00 machine. Anyway, a few of our dealers already carry a portable machine that can be beefed up upon request. They are being sold to all kinds of users, from inmates to upholsters, to carpet installers. My idea was to have a complete custom package available for modifying these machines into a leather capable stitcher, within their limitations. You and I don't need such a machine since we are already equipped with serious equipment. But, a newbie to sewing leather projects, with a limited budget, would benefit from this type of machine, as a first leather capable sewing machine. Once the person outgrows it he or she will probably move up to a cylinder arm compound feed heavy stitcher. Are we done arguing now?

The Singer 550 is a home sewing machine, not an industrial model. You will need an industrial sewing machine that was designed to handle and feed heavier thread, that uses larger needles and has a separate motor capable of driving the needle/thread through heavy leather. It will need either a clutch or servo motor, rated at about 400 watts, or more. The exception is the SewPro 500GR that is rated at about 300 watts, but has a built-in 2:1 speed reducer and a 50 mm pulley. I have one hooked up under my table, driving my National 300N walking foot machine. This setup can sew through 7/16" of belt leather, with #207 thread and a #24 leather point needle.

They are already out there Art. Many sewing machine vendors are selling unmodified portable walking foot machines now for well under $400. The buyers can then purchase a Monster Wheel from SailRite for about $125, plus postage and it adds the punching power and smooth slow speed needed to sew veg-tan projects up to about 3/8" - after grinding the bottom teeth off the pressor feet. My idea was that perhaps some of our dealers could get these machines modified at the factory to sew leather, rather than vinyl. They would have smooth bottom pressor feet (to avoid marking the top of the leather), heavier top tension and pressure bar springs, a slightly heavier take-up lever and a wider, heavier flywheel already installed. Unmodified, these machines now weigh 41 pounds, in the carrying case. Add another 9 pounds for a larger, heavier flywheel (which slows the top speed & increases torque) and you've got a 50 pound mini workhorse, perfect for shows, flea markets and hobby sewers. They are not triple feed, but double feed machines. The outer pressor foot moves in time with the feed dogs. This is still better than a straight stitch machine. Having the heavier springs, flywheels and take-up parts made and pre-installed at the same factory that produces those machines would be cheaper than purchasing a standard mini walker and then purchasing or modifying those additional parts, later on. There was a discussion on this very forum where some members have increased the height of the pressor feet to sew thicker leather with heavier thread than the standard portable machine can manage. Others have discussed how adding a Monster Wheel allowed them to sew thick leather. This could be done at the factory for a lot less cost, making it possible to sell already modified machines suitable for hobbyists and traveling leathercrafters lacking the budget for a full size industrial machine. Just a thought. NB: These suggestions and ramblings are aimed at selling a decent portable machine to a leather crafter who wants to get into sewing, at home or on location, but lacks the budget to move into a full-fledged heavy leather sewing machine. It is a cost-effective alternative to a pull lever portable stitcher and easier to use for long runs. There have been quite a few inquiries made on this forum, over the last few months, for machines capable of sewing up to 3/8" of real leather, easily controllable, at about the $500 price point.

I propose that the dealers here contact their parts and casing suppliers and see if they can come up with a portable walking foot machine that is already beefed up and modified to sew real leather, up to 3/8" - without needing to add another flywheel, or grind the teeth off of the pressor feet. Such a machine would be a great first machine for casual leathercrafters or those attending flea markets and shows. Make no more than 50 pounds in a carrying case and sell it for under $500 and you'd have a winner, in my opinion.

Hmmm. Ok. I am not a dealer and I do try to help newbies to sewing leather, as much as I can. Many of these good folks are long time crafters who have been hand sewing for many years. Maybe their art has been noticed by local gun shops, or clothiers and they are going to need to get into machine sewing to handle the expected volume of new business. Let's accept these as given variables. var = "leather crafter" var = "hand sewing exp only" var = "commercial work lined up" var = "needs industrial sewing machine" Suppose that the only assistance we want to offer this person is that you should buy the cheapest industrial machine you can find on eBay, or in a hock shop, and learn to use it, break it and fix it again. When they finally know everything there is to know about getting an old P.O.S. machine to sew leather they will also come to realize that it was the wrong type of machine for their jobs. They will try in vain to learn to control the clutch on the motor, but will have little luck, with many runaway stitch lines. The needle will turn red hot and burn both the thread and the leather, cause the motor is too fast. The machine will not like the heavy nylon thread and large needle sizes that are recommended for heavier projects. Thread will bunch up under the leather and jam the bobbin case. In many cases the first time sewing machine buyer will purchase a machine on eBay because it is shown sewing leather. When our crafter tries to sew a 1/4" thick veg-tan leather belt or 5/16" pancake holster the machine may skip stitches, change stitch length, or fray the top thread. Nobody told him that he needed a beefed up, slowed down, compound feed walking or jumping foot machine, so he bought a straight stitch garment machine, dirt cheap, cause it said "sews leather." Then, after a year of monkey futching around with this P.O.S. machine and ruining dozens of projects and dozens of feet of expensive leather, that would have made him or her some good money if properly sewn, he or she finally decides to call a dealer that frequents these forums and is himself a member here. The dealer takes the toll free call, listens to the rants and raves of the angry leathercrafter who has dinked around with the P.O.S. eBay or Craigslist machine long enough, and after calming him or her down, offers to sell them a brand new fully functional leather sewing machine at a reasonable price. This machine will be made to sew real leather, using heavy thread and large needles, into multiple layers without causing them to go out of alignment, often up to or in excess of 3/4". It will have a brand new servo motor and possibly a speed reducer, giving it incredible punching power at extremely slow and controllable speeds. The fictitious person jumps up and down about the price of the new machine, but finally takes the plunge and buys one from the dealer. After the machine arrives and gets assembled, the fictitious crafter begins sewing with it. After a few phone calls (toll free) to the dealer for explanations about a few adjustment details, the crafter is happily sewing all manner of leather goods for sale; flawlessly. If something jams, he can call his dealer again, toll free, and once again he or she will receive all the assistance they need to get them sewing again. The dealer will supply him or her with quality thread, needles and bobbins. The leather goods that the new machine can sew will not be limited to 5/16" or 3/8" thickness, like they will be on a garment or upholstery machine. If a holster job with a thick filler comes along, up goes the pressor feet, in goes the 3/4" of leather, down goes the needle, in goes the #346 thread, and sewn becomes the holster. Try that on an eBay or Craigslist garment or upholstery machine! With all of that said and out of the way, the dealers on this forum are not out to gouge our members. They are trying to make an honest living selling decent machinery to a specialty market, and provide great service and support to their loyal customers. I have read a lot of comments from members who have purchased new sewing machines from our dealers and I don't recall seeing very many negative comments, if any. Nor do I recall reading about the new machines falling apart. I myself have gone the route of buying garment machines, then "leather" machines (NOT), then heavy stitchers and finally, a needle and awls machine. I wasted thousands of dollars finding the right machines that can sew "real leather." I have spent countless hours trying to jerry-rig old machines to sew thicker material that they are designed to sew. I have bent and broken hundreds of needles, melted thread and burnt leather. My next sewing machine will be a brand new cylinder arm machine from one of our own dealers. I am through dinking around with old, P.O.S. machines.

You are most welcome! Anytime!