Hunhunt

There are many old lasts for sale on Ebay. I have bought quite a few for the leather shoes I make. Most are pretty well used and require some filling of nail holes. I reshape them to the styles I desire to make. You can look on Ebay and get an idea what prices they are getting.

I have ordered from them before. There is a substantial discount when ordering 100 sq. ft. or more (I paid $8.82/sq. ft. last year). You will want to talk to Shelley Huard at Tannery Row. She is great to deal with and I really like the chromexcel that I got from them. It can take a little while for your order to be filled so best to plan ahead. It took around 3 - 4 weeks to receive the order and shipping cost on 6 sides (110 sq. ft.) was around $85.

As I noted above, I try to plan well ahead when ordering from ZW (always order by phone) since I have run into problems similar to those expressed by others. Unfortunately, the 8 weeks that dogboy experienced is just not acceptable. My last order took around 4 weeks as the crazy horse leather I had ordered was out of stock. I found out from the woman I talked to on the phone that their supplier had promised the leather but did not come through with the date they had promised. That put ZW in an awkward position. Regardless, their communication when fulfilling orders could certainly use some improvement. The woman I talk to on the phone each time is always very pleasant and tries to be helpful. I sure wish that I could find another source for crazy horse leather though so that I wouldn't keep having to go through this hassle each time. If anyone knows of another source for crazy horse leather I'd sure appreciate it if you could share the information.

You might try calling Bob Kovar at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines (they advertise on this forum). When I was in need of a machine for my particular application he was very attentive as I explained my needs and he made some excellent recommendations. He did not try to sell me more machine than I needed, just the machines that would work for me. He's a good listener and has a temendous amount of knowledge reagarding leather sewing machines.

The tool pictured looks like a very blunted overstitch wheel. I have two overstitch wheels with very sharp points and they mark chrome or vegtan leather just fine. I just got the second one from Bruce Johnson (he has lots of them on his website) for marking around the welt of shoes to handsew the uppers to the midsole. The Tandy model that I used previously is too wide and mars the leather uppers. The new (actually very old and cool) tool from Bruce works great.

I have been learning how to make shoes over the last year. I have confined my efforts to oxford style shoes on Munson lasts using stitch out construction after trying other ways to last the shoes. I have also tried a variety of leathers from very heavy soft shrunken bullhide to oily casual looking leather to best quality Horween Chromexcel. In the process I have narrowed my leather choices down to Horween products for a dressier shoe and Crazy Horse leather (available from Zack White Leather) for a more casual look. Although I am primarily using Horween Chromexcel right now, their Beaufort leather is actually easier to work with in terms of gluing since it is less waxy/oily. Both the Horween products and the Crazy Horse leather are a real pleasure to work with because they are so moldable. This makes molding around the last much easier and provides better results for me (no wrinkles to fight with and a crisp looking finished product). Even though these leathers are easy to mold they do not seem to stretch out of shape after extensive wear. I have also used Horween Austin leather and similar S.B. Foot leather but found those products very difficult to mold due to their very limited stretch. Hope this helps.

Haven't used the Predator leather to make any more shoes. I did try gluing some scraps using the techniques described to see if adhesion was any better. It does seem like there was some improvement. Until I try making another pair of shoes with the Predator I won't know if it completely solves the problem on the joints described. Right now I'm working with straight Chromexcel but using the same technique since even the straight Chromexcel is very waxy. Next I plan to try some Beaufort Chromexcel which is supposed to be slightly less oily/waxy to avoid the problem.

I think there may be confusion here with regards to the term "aniline". Aniline dye is used in coloring the leather (or wood). It is a dye that is very clear when applied so that the leather surface is not obscured. Another option would be pigmented stains but they tend to muddy the leather (or wood when used in staining wood). Pigmented stains can be used to hide surface defects. The actual hand of the leather is more a function of the tanning process. I use some very soft hand chrome tanned leather for upholstering chairs. The upholstery leather is relatively thin also (around 3 oz). On the other hand, for shoes I use a stiffer hand chrome tan that averages 5 to 6 oz thickness. For shoes the leather needs to stretch and mold particularly in the toe box area. I have used some very oily, relatively soft chrome tan for some shoes but the toe box tends to collapse more. I have used a relatively hard temper S.B. Foot chrome tan for some shoes but it takes a lot of grunting to get the leather to stretch as described. Some Crazy Horse leather I recently tried is another chrome tan that has a medium to softer temper and very nice stretch. It's probably the easiest leather I have worked with for shoes. Finally, I have been working with some Horween Chromexcel that is combination tanned (chrome and veg tan). It is hot stuffed with oils and waxes after tanning. It has a medium to stiffer temper but molds beautifully. You might visit Horween's website as they have a wealth of information available. Each company has their own recipes for processing, tanning and treating and each can result in different "feel" in the final product. When in doubt ask for samples of the products you might be interested in. Some vendors have very good descriptions of the feel of the leather on their websites or can give you a good idea if you call them (Waterhouse Leather for example). Hope this helps answer your question.

OK, thanks for the information. I'll give it a try.

I paid around $450 for the reconditioned Chase pattern splitter. It is an 8 inch and I have split up to 4 inches. As you split wider chrome tan the leather tends to stretch as you pull it through the splitter. Yes it will do a lap skive but not a tapered lap skive like the Krebs pattern splitters. For making belts I don't need a tapered lap skive to fold over the portion where the buckle goes so the Chase works fine. Bruce explains the attributes of the various types of splitters on his website. The Krebs splitters have an adjustment mechanism so that you can get repeatable thickness in your splits. The Chase does not have this feature. The Krebs tend to be more expensive. Bruce suggested that the Chase I got from him might be best for splitting the types of leather I use due to the thinner blade and shallower (?) angle of the cutting edge. I have been very satisfied with it. There are other types of splitters as well that you can learn about on Bruce's website.

Thanks for your reply. Since the oil and waxes runs throughout the leather, how does sanding improve the adhesion? What cement are you using? I was able to get adequate adherence to follow up with sewing lapped seams but the problem is when lasting the shoes. Using stitch down construction the upper is glued to the midsole and then sewn down tightly to the midsole against the insole. But the glue joint fails in the vertical joint between uppers and the cross section of the midsole/insole. The leather pulls away from the area and looks unsightly.

I'll second the recommendation to contact Bruce Johnson to see if he has any splitters available and for his recommendations for your application. I recently purchased an old Chase pattern splitter from him and have tried it on several different chrome tanned leather pieces as well as some Horween Chromexcel. The splitter worked fine on everything I tried. This included some very oily, pliable chrome tan that I had no hope of splitting as well as a very soft, heavy knap shrunken chrome tan. The knife needs to be very sharp.

I am currently trying out some Horween Predator leather for making some shoes. Just wondering if anyone else has experience with this leather and if you have been successful at gluing it. The leather is extremely oily and waxy, even more so than regular Horween Chromexcel. I have tried Masters All Purpose cement and the cement remained gummy after application. I tried pre-treating the leather with Masters solvent prior to applying cement to try to remove some of the oils and waxes at the gluing surface. The results were the same with a gummy surface with poor bonding strength. I then tried Fiebings Tanners Bond Leathercraft cement (non-flammable). It dried but could be peeled right off the leather in a thin film sheet with virtually no bond strength. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

You can split the leather either hairside up or down but normally you would split hairside up. This helps you maintain consistent thickness in your workpiece (kind of like a thickness planer in woodworking if you are familiar with them). You pull on the piece from the topside of the splitter so it does stretch some as you are pulling the leather through the splitter. I've not had a problem with excessive stretching and you could always take a lighter cut to minimize force required to pull the leather through the splitter. I have heard of people flipping the leather over and splitting hairside down in order to minimize stretching. Then you would be pulling on the flesh side that will be discarded so you don't care if it stretches. However, the flesh side is much weaker than the hairside so I would be concerned about it tearing as you are pulling the leather through. You will like working with the Horween leather, it is amazing stuff. I am just starting to make some shoes with some of the "Predator" CXL. It is very oily and is similar in some respects to "Crazy Horse" leather.

When splitting chromexcel the flesh side looks pretty much the same after splitting as before. I tried splitting another type of leather that was just chrome tan and it had a very loose, soft nap (don't know if that is a legitimate word when describing leather) on the flesh side. This stuff was almost impossible to skive with a hand skiver because the blade would just bog down in the thick, soft fiber. The Chase pattern splitter cut right through it with no problem and left a tight, smooth surface on the flesh side. As far as surface defects, since those are generally on the top (hair) side (bug bites, scars, brands) the splitter won't solve that as it is the flesh side that is being split off and is generally discarded.

The Chase pattern splitter is purely trial and error. There are splitters such as the Krebs pattern that have a means of getting repeatable thickness. Bruce Johnson has a great blog on his website that describes the capabilities and differences in these machines. Another good resource is the article "Splitting Machines" on the randallmachine.com website. I chose the Chase pattern because I work primarily with chrome tan leather which can be difficult to split compared to vegtan. The Chase pattern was recommended because of the thinner, lower angle blade. I tested the Chase pattern with some very soft temper oil tan and had no trouble splitting it. It splits CXL just fine.

Although you wouldn't want to do this on a regular basis, you can split CXL for some of your smaller applications. I wanted to use scraps left over from shoe-making (5 - 6 oz chromexcel) to make wallets and notebook/checkbook covers. I purchased an old Chase pattern splitter from Bruce Johnson (moderator on the "Leather Tools" section of this forum) and tried it. It works great for splitting 6oz down to as little as 2.5oz. I've split pieces as wide as 4.5 inches which requires some grunt but splits beautifully.

I have purchased one of the Chromexcel seconds in the past (not from Springfield). It is really nice leather but for my use (shoe making) there was too much waste. I swallowed hard and ordered from Tannery row (actually ordered 6 sides instead of the minimum 5 for the discount). The first quality sides are just amazing. It took quite a while to get the order filled but it was well worth the wait. The seconds do work great for smaller items like wallets, etc. and Maverick's delivery time is second to none.

I came to the same conclusion that you did - I always just phone my order in. They definitely are not as fast about filling orders as some other companies. I just try to plan ahead so that there is no rush to get the order from them. I have always found them very pleasant to work with over the phone. I recently purchased some of their Crazy Horse leather also and just completed a pair of shoes from that leather. The side I got was really outstanding and worth the wait. It works great for making shoes. Unfortunately they are showing most of their best grade heavier vegtan double shoulders out of stock right now. Glad I have enough of that to last for a little while longer. The absolute best company I have dealt with as far as prompt service for ordering leather has been Maverick leather. I phone in the order and the leather arrives in 2 days. We live in Idaho where 2 day delivery generally means 3 days. I don't know how Maverick does it. They have some outstanding deals on S.B. Foot leather right now so I'm trying that leather out for shoes as well.

Waterhouse Leather is my favorite source for upholstery leather. The quality of the hides I have received from them has been outstanding, price is very competitive and Peter is a real pleasure to do business with. Have also purchased some outstanding waxy bridle leather and latigo from them.

Wouldn't the other choice be the CB227R rather than the CB2500? The three layers of 8 oz would be at the maximum end of the capacity for the CB227R but the lighter end single 8 oz would seem better sewn on the CB227R than the CB3200. The CB227R is also a triple feed machine and would have a wide range of choices of needle sizes on the lighter end. I guess it all depends on whether most sewing would be on the three layers of 8 oz. Then the CB3200 would seem like the better choice.

I was in the same situation as you last year living here in central Idaho. I talked with several of the dealers who advertise on this forum and got good information from all of them. I ended up buying a machine from Bob at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. It was a real pleasure doing business with him and he has helped me since the purchase to overcome a few problems that were related to my inexperience with machine sewing leather. Bob gave me really good advise too on what machine would best suit my needs (mostly thinner leather such as upholstery leather) so that I didn't buy more machine than I needed.

I have found the 5 DVD series "The Art of Shoemaking" on the "Healthy Handmade Shoes" website to be a great resource for learning how to make shoes using stitch-down sole method.