SeattleLeather

To add to this discussion, when I was speaking to them on the phone not long ago they said they will be RELAUNCHING a wholesale ordering system soon. They just launched the retail site, and want to get everything straightened out with that first, then they will be putting up a new wholesale system. What "soon" means is anybodies guess, but it is in the works in theory. At least the retail site makes it easy to look things up and find things, but for now you still have to hop on the phone for the actual order!

ByAmericansllc Sorry, I was sick for about a week, and then had catch up to play at my "real" job! Well, that would all make sense with what I've found from other companies. Zinc and steel wire seem to be commonly done here. Also correct on the brass casting. It can crackle/pop causing injuries, so the big companies don't want to touch it. As far as SOLID brass, not cast, you can find things made from wire/stamped from various companies still. Sovran81 There are many parts that would be awesome to have done, for me this is just kind of the first thing I personally would like to get as you can't find SS made in the USA. So is there anyone else out there interested? I think by this count we MAY be about 10 percent there... Also is it appropriate to post in other more main forums on here to draw attention to this in case others who don't look at this section frequently are interested?

Awesome! You should post your thoughts on the samples when they come in. I'm sure other people stumbling across this thread in the future will appreciate the info. As far as more links, what did you have in mind? Same kind of products, or something different. I have too many to just list everything! I know http://www.dotfasteners.com/index.html products are supposed to be really solid stuff, and they even offer most of their snaps in Stainless Steel, which is pretty awesome! Most of their snaps are still made in the US as well. I'd have to look through to find other rivet companies as I don't remember them all off the top of my head!

Wolfe9, will keep it in the tally as a rough number! I think between the posts here and some PMs might be at about 10% Come on high rollers, where you guys all at??? Haha! ByAmericansllc: Huh, that's interesting about Custom Metal Crafters. Which guy did you talk to? I believe I talked to Tim Balog, and he was the one who said those are being imported now. Ben I think is the other guy who responded to my initial email and also said those are imported now, but I talked to Tim on the phone. Aside from them telling me, one of the reasons I assumed that to be correct is that you see that 999 part number carried over to some companies that resell those same buckles, and one or two of them said they were made overseas too. I would assume there's not multiple companies using the same part number for sucha similar item. If they're still made in the states that's nothing but a good thing! They ought to make sure all their sales reps know this fact though if that's the case. I reckon that would make them the lowest minimum order for US roller buckles that I've found then if that's the case! Perhaps I'll have to re-check with Tim if I can't get this SS thing going. Electrathon: I agree across the board. Perhaps I chose a bad "representative" picture, as you are probably correct with that 2nd one being cast. I know some shaping/contouring ("coining" seems to be industry terminology) can be done to wire as I've seen this talked about on other manufacturers sites, but I did not discuss this with them. I would assume the quote above is for something more like the 1st one. I do agree that some of the subtle differences in number 2 would be nice, but if doable I'm sure they would add to cost. If we can get up to the minimum I was already thinking of checking to see even before posting this thread! As for some minor markup, yes perhaps. And to answer your question on the Custom Metal buckles, they are steel with nickel plate. If I remember my conversation correctly they can do solid brass wire as well. And finally, if you prefer the stainless mainly for the same reason I do (no plate to wear off) http://albest.com/product.asp?Func=DispProd&SelCat=Buckles&SelSubCat=End+Bar+Buckles could be of interest. If I were going for dressy or casual belts as my first stuff vs Rock gear I would definitely be checking into their solid Nickel Silver products! The rollers go too perfectly though with all the rock 'n' roll styled stuff! And as another note, is it within this forums ettiquette to make a thread in a more "main" forum linking to this one to bring attention to it? Some message boards I've posted on over the years had this happen all the time, and it was fine. I'm sure this isn't one of the most heavily trafficed sections, so bringing more attention to it from more popular sections would be cool! If this is ok, which would you guys that have been around here longer suggest? Also, if anyone feels like messaging friends they feel may be interested, please do! I would really like to see this happen, and the more people that know, the more will be interested, and the more likely it is to actually happen!

Thanks for the first replies so far! So Cyberthrasher, what kind of numbers are you thinking? Fact is I'd really like to pull this off, and there's more than one way to skin a cat. A few guys with established businesses buying 500 or 1000 would be awesome, but a dozen here, and dozen there can add up too! Between us I think we can get this done! Going forward can everyone try to put a rough estimate of what size and quantity they would want? That way I can tally things up and see if we're close to me being able to swing this thing!!! Also, Rayban, even though I responded to your PM I'm gonna post info for others. I think doing some other styles would be great, and from talking to some of the other manufacturers perfectly doable. When you're not trying to do "custom" stuff like this SS the minimums are FAR more reasonable. I've got quotes as low as 500. Perhaps gauging interest for different types of items with another thread is a good way to go? http://albest.com/product.asp?Func=DispProd&SelCat=Buckles&SelSubCat=End+Bar+Buckles These guys make some sweet end bar buckles. Thing I like most: They do solid Nickel Silver! I just don't like plate. It will ALWAYS fail eventually, no matter what "quality" it is. Their minimum on regular steel roller buckles was 500 units, so maybe their brass/nickel silver is the same? A far more attainable minimum for LW.Net users I would think! Even if I can't get the SS roller buckle deal done because there's not enough interest, I'd love to spur people on to buying from some of these companies!

Oh, and for anyone wondering I'm talking about guys like these: I didn't ask about getting the little stops, so I don't know if that quote includes them or not, but I'm fine without myself.

Hello all! So I am a bit new to the site, and heck pretty new to leather working in general. Did some as a kid, that’s about it! That said I’m not new to business. My dad has been self employed since I was a youngin’, and I’ve been running the family business for years now. Short version of the story is different size roller buckles in Stainless Steel, Made in USA of US steel, delivered to your door for around either $.99 or $1.30 a piece (depending on finish) at the 1.5” size. Skip to “So here’s the deal:” if you don’t want to read my other blabbering! Sorry for the novel in advance, but I like to be very clear and detailed about things. Here’s my conundrum. I want to start making leather goods as a half way serious thing right off. Serious as in very high quality, not necessarily high quantity. I want to use nothing but the best components. Furthermore I want 100% of my components to be made in USA. I was always taught if you’re going to do somethin’ do it right! Belts and bracelets to start, and we can see from there. I want to start with black leather and all Stainless Steel hardware. Eventually I imagine I’d get into doing brown with Solid Brass. The SB is not too hard to come by made in the USA, even in small quantities. The SS seems to be almost entirely special order. So the issue is, as was discussed in this thread (http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=40488&st=0) is that many of the manufacturers have high minimums… Higher than most of you guys who have been doing this for a long time and have established customer bases even want to touch. For anyone who sees it, I would also like to note the steel roller buckle the one member purchased from Custom Metal Crafters there is NOT made in USA. Maybe it was at the time, but when I talked to them a couple weeks ago it is now imported. So here’s the deal: I have a firm quote from Philip Machine on SS Roller Buckles, and in my opinion their flexibility is pretty awesome. Because they have to buy a certain minimum of the SS stock they need to make approximately 5000 units (based off all 1.5”)… BUT they are willing to mix and match buckle sizes and number of prongs for basically nothing extra. Smaller ones will be cheaper than my example below, and bigger ones more or less go up proportionally to the amount of extra SS they use. They manufacture 100% of their products in the USA, and in my opinion are a great company to support. The guy I talked to knew his stuff, and was able to give me an instant quote. If (lord forbid) there is enough interested to get above 5000 units, I imagine we can get the price down even more than as listed below. 1.5”x1.25” SS roller buckles .215 diameter for the main wire (this is a regularly available SS stock, perhaps slight variation is possible though) .135 or .152 diameter for the prongs $.70-.79 a buckle (he didn’t check exact current pricing on the raw stock, but in this range) This is with their “regular” finish, which he said is slightly duller than regular nickel plating. He said they can do an ultra high shine finish (some sort of buffing type thing or other process I forget the technical name he used. I think it was chemical based. NOT plating, still solid SS) that will get the finish up to basically looking like chrome. This is something they sub out to a company down the road a piece, and it costs $.27 cents a unit their cost, they usually mark up to around $.31. Going with the high figures this brings the total price to $1.10 a unit. Shipping is roughly $.08-.10 a unit. Reshipping cost to you guys let’s assume the same. GRAND TOTAL: $1.30 delivered to YOUR front door using the high numbers. That is what it will cost delivered for the ultra high shine, which is what I want to go for. They can NOT do the high shine on all units, so doing the regular finish brings down the cost around $.31 a unit, so $.99 delivered. Keep in mind that’s for 1.5”, so bigger/smaller ones will vary the price. So here’s what I’m thinking. I have the cash to put up for the order, I just don’t want to spend $6,000 bucks and sit on it. It could be a LONG time before I could get rid of that many buckles. If I could find enough people to offload say 90 percent of these, I will do them straight up at my cost + shipping to you guys. I would think we could get shipping down to $.10ish a unit to reship to other people. If I can line up enough to get rid of just a good chunk, I could also possibly still place the order and sell them to people at some reasonable “profit” for myself to help offset me sitting on a ton more buckles than I need. I’m thinking I would like 1.5”, 1.75”, and 2” buckles all in 1 and 2 prong variations. 1” perhaps in single prong. What does anybody think? You literally CAN NOT find SS made in USA roller buckles to purchase in reasonable quantities anywhere. I looked. Everywhere. If someone knows of one, please tell me! But I don’t think you can find them period. So basically whoever gets in on this will be the only ones who can say they use them in their products, and the only ones who can retail them as stand alone buckles through their businesses. We’d have the market cornered J I am also open to becoming the “minority partner” in this endeavor if someone else maybe wants most of them for themselves and just wants to use my lead. I will gladly pay someone a tidy profit to avoid having to shell out all the cash up front. NOTE I also have a pending quote from another company, so we’ll see where they land. They are a bigger outfit, so they might be able to come in cheaper… But it sounds like quantities would be higher by a good bit. I think public discussion is preferable, but send me a PM if you’d like! I’m just throwing this out there, and not necessarily in a huge rush to pull the trigger. If there is enough interest I will though! I’ve secured low volume sources for nickel plated steel made in USA, and perhaps I’ll just start with that and offer the “All Solid Stainless” line later as a “product improvement” if I have to. If you want info on those let me know, they can go down to under .50 cents per! This is my last “hurdle” for basic all SS items. But I wanted to gauge the interest!

Hi Victoria, Awesome! I hope Romefast can do what you need! Yea, I wasn't sure if you wanted truly "solid" (not hollow at all) rivets, which is why I posted those as well. They are oriented more for straight up industrial purposes, but they offer actual solid rivets in materials not frequently found offered by leather suppliers. Things like Stainless Steel, Solid Brass etc. You only ever seem to see truly solid rivets in copper from most leather places, otherwise it's tubular. So, not of use to you (but maybe someone else in the future will appreciate it!), but I think it would be a cool thing to use truly solid (for the extra strength) rivets at some point. Would need some hefty equipment for some materials though! Since you are looking for the speedy/rapid/kwik rivet style perhaps Romefast can help ya there too! If not I have some other bookmarks that may be of use, so just repost to this thread and I can see what other good places I have! That's a good strategy for the shipping! And yes MacPherson's leather is a pretty cool shop. I only went there for the first time not long ago, but it beat the heck out of what Tandy stocks, and I think is about the only other place around here. Anyway, good luck and do let me know if you want more links... I'm a bit OCD in bookmarking places, so I have a lot!

So, I have never checked their minimums on these particular items, but these guys are very helpful. http://www.romefast.com/ They're the actual manufacturer, and they're made in the USA! They make quality stuff. I guess you're just up the road in BC Canada, but I'm sure you'd still rather deal with a US company than some outfit over in China. If what you want are regularly stocked items they will probably have reasonable minimums, and a pretty sweet price vs buying through middle men. That's been my experience thus far in talking to manufacturers. http://www.romefast.com/SnapFastenersParallelSpringThreeEighthsInch.asp Are the snaps you're looking for. 10mm is basically 3/8ths inch, so perhaps changing up that keyword will yield some better search results. I guess those would also amount to something like a line 16/17 snap (16 Ligne-9.5 mm 17 Ligne-10.5 mm). Romefast has a wide selection of "kwik" or "speedy" rivets they make as well. Not sure on the type you're looking for from them, but they're "around". If you're truly looking for solid rivets (not tubular as suggested above) some of the hardware sites (like super industrial for builders etc) have a ridiculous selection of them in endless variations. You could try http://www.rivetsinstock.com/ or these guys http://www.indexfasteners.com/ When I emailed Romefast about other items I talked to the owner himself, and he was a really nice guy. Super helpful. Otherwise maybe try using those alternative names for the size of the snap I listed above. Hope some of that helps!

Oh yea. A custom belt I bought in one piece of solid 14oz English Bridle leather is what made me want to start messing around with leather again! I hadn't done it since I was a kid, and store bought belts are a joke. So why not do it yourself! I can hand sew ok now, but never done much more leather sewing than a few patches, fix a few busted seams here and there. I will certainly have to learn to do good consistent stuff like some of you guys do on here one of these days!

Well that sucks. You know you can just call your credit card company/bank and have them cancel the transaction right? Just have to tell them the company never shipped and stopped responding. That said I would probably email the company 1 more time, and give them a few more days to refund on their own, stating that if they don't you'll dispute the charge. Credit card companies side with the consumer 100% of the time pretty much.

I think it's an awesome idea. I'd say use scrap pieces from the same quality of leather you actually use in products. Definitely spend time on a good design. In a lot of ways, using random shaped leather (not business card size) could almost be fine. Doing key fobs or coasters or something could in fact be stepping it up a little more though. Speaking of, my biggest suggestion would be to the stamp maker to create a cooler looking/more detailed promo shot!

Mmm, 16-17 ounce thick belt... I may need to learn how to sew (properly) one of these days! And as to the topic starter. If you want something badass that will last, go for thicker leather as said above. I personally am all about SOLID HARDWARE. Brass is easy to come by, even made in the USA. That is what I would suggest. Then you don't have the issue of the plating wearing off after awhile. I HATE that. Other than that I think the other posts cover it!

Thanks for the info! I pretty well assumed the above, but it's nice to have it confirmed. I guess it's just one of those things where all the websites kind of assume you already know the super basic stuff, so nobody even touches on it! So I guess a 3/16ths and maybe one size up are in my future then! I guess some super tiny one could be cool for down the road too for nuance stuff, but I can probably hold off on that. The 125 is probably what I will get as well, looking at one at a local shop the other day it seemed to be more "rounded" and have a bigger area the leather can fit into. Thanks again!!!

Awesome. I figured as much. I have done a lot of graphic design work in Photoshop, so I'm very comfortable with that. I also like the fact that you can do truly precise measurements in the digital medium to get things EXACTLY correct.

Anybody? I'm sure there has to be some rule of thumb for size of edger vs thickness of leather? I really want to order some stuff soon, but I don't want a bunch of sizes that won't be immediately useful for me if I can avoid it.

I have been meaning to get ahold of them since hearing of them on here. For simple templates they should be able to work with a scale accurate 2D image from Photoshop I would assume? Templates ARE essentially 2D anyway since the thickness of the plastic (usually) wouldn't matter.

If you want a cool site that's a lot less sketchy... Check out http://www.thomasnet.com/ This is the same type of thing, but US based. They list tons of US based manufacturers, and I have found several companies I think I will be working with in the future on here. In addition to manufacturers, they do list many big distributors too. Fact is some manufacturers/distributors are only SUPER high volume, but some I've come across have what basically amounts to retail websites as well. Minimum orders of $30 and such. If you're looking for truly custom hardware you will find companies that do it on there. And made in the USA, so no sketchy overseas madness to deal with. Plus I just like supporting US manufacturing as well. What kind of hardware are you looking for specifically? I've built an INSANE made in USA bookmark folder for various types of hardware, and I might be able to give you a good lead.

So I'll toss in my 2 cents ($10.00 more like!). I'm super new to leather stuff in particular, but am a long time self employed person, and have previously owned a retail store. Much of it applies across the board I think. It may be a bit rambly at points, but it’s early and I don’t have enough caffeine in me yet! I think there will be good food for thought though. First I agree with the logic of "I would say if you are going to sell products like a $3500 saddle, they will find you." This is generally true. Think of all the random places that sell super high end specialty stuff. They can often get away with being a "destination store" no problem. This is not what you're planning on doing though apparently. So, then the question becomes who are your customers going to be? If you're going to stock supplies will it be other people who are sincerely interested in looking for something because they NEED it? Or are you hoping to sell more belts and such to out and out "consumers" who just happen to pass by? If you were going for more of the utilitarian supply shop idea, the cheap place might not be bad because those people need whatever they're after. Maybe they don't want to order online because they want to see things in person, maybe they're old and don't shop online at all, maybe they just want it now. But they need it. So they might travel out of the way. For the retail of actual leather goods angle, the high traffic spot would probably yield more sales for that type of product, and inevitably "high quality" leather care products. Mink oil, cleaner, etc which I would guess you would stock. So to me you need to figure out which of those is what you're really going for as the main thing, because as with the 3500 dollar saddle, they're different types of customers. What did the old shop specialize in? Was it more of a supply thing, or a consumer type shop? If he lasted a long time it might be an indicator of what would work. He also stopped doing it... So was it purely because he was getting older and didn't want to work as much, so he knocked off? Or was it because his business was slowly tapering off? Ask him! I talked to the guy who had previously owned a similar shop in the small town where I had my retail store, and he was happy to spill the beans because he was no longer involved in the business. As a matter of fact he still had some inventory around and I bought some of it off him, and consigned some more in my new store! Once you’ve figured out what type of customer you’re going after, then comes the next question. As mentioned above you SHOULD have the money around to lose money, or at best break even for a couple years. My shop made money the first year, but not much! It then ticked up over the next few years. Now you don’t HAVE to have 36 grand laying around in the bank (based off the 1000 spot). Realistically you’re going to recoup something out of that rent, but it may not be much at first. Plus you also have to factor in buying displays, inventory, signage, and other costs of opening. Depending on what kind of displays you want and how expensive the inventory items are, this can be considerable, even for a small shop. On the inventory note if I may make a suggestion from personal experience, and from experience as a customer too. If you’ve got the money, BE WELL STOCKED at all times. I would suggest carrying as wide an array of different items as you can, and whatever you do decide to stock, make sure you ALWAYS have some there. There’s nothing a customer hates more than going somewhere for a particular item they’ve got there before, and it’s out of stock. They won’t bother the next time in many cases. The more different types of random off the wall stuff you have, the more likely someone is to find something to buy. So, to go back to the having a ton of cash laying around bit. The real question there is can you afford to lose a good chunk of that rent every month at first out of other income you already have? And if so, can you afford it for the expensive spot? If you can afford to straight up lose 500 bucks a month, but not 1000, then that may dictate the cheaper spot is the way to go simply because you know it won’t kill you. Then there’s always how much more will I actually make from the higher traffic spot? Try to be realistic here. If you’re open Monday through Friday you have 20ish days a month. Let’s call that $25 bucks a day profit for break even on the pricier spot. I don’t know what price point of belts you’re selling, but if we want to assume reasonably priced ones, you might need to sell 2 more belts a day. Or, because of the lower margins, a dozen or two 5-10 dollar “accessory” items like cleaners etc. A ton of cheap little hardware items. Does some combination of that sound “reasonable” to sell in the town you’re thinking of setting up in? “Well what if the 1000 spot makes me exactly 500 more a month?” Personally I’d be ok with that. Higher overhead, higher gross, and the same net at the end of the day is something I’m ok with. Some people would rather have less work, less stress and the same bottom line. Another thing to contemplate, is what else “fits in” properly with your general idea that you can do to expand the market? As a for instance if you’re good at sewing, would you do leather repair? This is something where there’s practically no hard cost, so it’s almost 100% profit. If you don’t feel comfortable doing complicated stuff, would it be something you would want to learn? It’s certainly something that would increase the bottom line if you wanted to do it. How about selling used leather items like jackets? There’s an awesome new/used leather store I go to that makes it off just that and repairs. If you’re going for the more retail oriented spot, expand the number of “stock” types of items you make. If you’re personally all about western style belts on a personal level, maybe expand to make more Rock & Roll looking stuff to expand the potential market. Maybe not your cup of tea, but they’ll sell. You don’t even have to throw this stuff on your website if you want to maintain proper “branding” for that, just make some for the retail store. There are plenty of other ideas you could come up with I’m sure. Finally, if you have success in the cheap spot, you can always move to a better spot, which will inevitably drive up your “consumer” sales with little/no loss of “destination” customers. However if you go from the nice spot to the cheap spot you WILL lose retail sales, but it’d be hard to know exactly how much unless you have really good books stating what types of products were sold… And are a little psychic! In the end, starting any business venture is all about what kind of capital you have around to get the deed done, how much you can afford to lose, and what you’re comfortable with above all else. Some people can brush stressful situations off, others can’t. I’d say if you figure out what type of customer you’re really wanting to go after, and how much cash you can afford to lose IF you have to, that should just about make the decision for you! I hope my early morning rambling helped!!!

Yea, the lady basically made it sound like they'd just tossed the site up and that they were going to be changing/adjusting things a lot. Since everything seemed to magically be 55% higher than their wholesale catalog, I think they basically just bumped everything up by that as default. I would think they'll go back through and adjust pricing where needed. In all honesty on SOME things on there, even at current prices they're not super out of line. Some of the tools and odds and ends are within the normal "range" you see them sold for. Some other things like hides where there seems to rarely be much price variation (I'm guessing they're a low margin item with price control mostly coming from the tannery) it seems way out of line. I'm sure they'll be "manually" tweaking and changing pricing a ton as they actually get the thing going... Hopefully! They do seem to have a lot of weird items that other places don't, so it would be nice for people who can't order wholesale.

Yea I know. I want to place an order, but 500 right off is a good chunk for my first purchase as someone new to this all. I guess they only started a few weeks back, and if you signed up before that date and haven't placed an initial order you're still "grandfathered" in at $250. On the plus side she did say they still have no minimum order after the initial order, so at least it's no 500 bucks every time or something. Still seems kind of like a bad move. IMO having a 100 or 200 dollar minimum every time would do a lot more towards not having to do "small time" orders at the awesome wholesale rates than having such a big one up front. I guess I'll just have to toss a whole side in there or something to make it work, because I've really become sold on their Master Tools punches after reading such glowing reviews on here. Plus they really do have about the best pricing I've seen on a lot of the other tools I want as well... I didn't want to spring for as much stuff right off, but I guess it's worth it.

Thank you very much Itch, I know that information will come in VERY handy. Weaver's tool that does the same thing (and probably no better) runs north of 1500 bucks!

Hello! So perhaps my first useful, actually giving something back, post ever! I was just talking to Weaver on the phone about some questions I had, and in explaining why their minimum "First order" for a new customer just went from $250 to $500 dollars the woman said it's mainly because they just launched a RETAIL WEBSITE. http://www.weaverleathersupply.com/ I searched and didn't see any threads mentioning this, so I figured I'd pass it along. A lot of people have discussed wanting to order this that and the other from them, but couldn't because they didn't have a tax id/business license. Now they can! They just kind of "did it" without any big notification as best as I can tell, so not too many people have probably noticed yet. She did say at some point in the not too distant future they will be implementing a Wholesale ordering site too, but they wanna square away the retail site first. So after looking through my catalog, and looking at the website, there is definitely a pretty good price jump. For instance 1 Master Tools punch I was looking at went from $51.60 to $80.00. Another tool went from $26.95 to $41.50. So it looks like it's about a 54-55% jump over their wholesale catalog. Sides seemed almost exactly the same jump. I only spot checked a couple items, so there MAY be some stuff that's a smaller increase. For the time being they have a 15% discount promo code on the website, so that helps. That said, most of the other brands of tools they carry there are comparable-ish to some of the other "main line" leather supply companies regular pricing. With those companies discount clubs taken into account, or just hunting around on Google, you can certainly beat their retail site prices. But their wholesale still seems pretty darn untouchable for a lot of stuff. More importantly than all the common stuff I guess would be getting some of the weird odds and ends they have others don't have. Such as their Master Tools line, which sounds pretty awesome. It'll cost ya more, but perhaps worth it for some of their items. Anyway, enough rambling. Check it out!

This guy below specializes in Chicago Screws. Since they're similar he might know something if none of his stuff works for your purpose. Cool thing is he sells in reasonable quantities, and (something that matters to me) is almost everything he sells is made in the USA or Canada. So no junk. I emailed him before with questions and he was super helpful. http://www.chicagoscrews.com/ Is a sub site just with Chicago Screws Their "main" site is https://www.mc2office.com/ Hope this helps some!

And I guess I'll toss this in there too since I was just poking around a bit more... Osborne also has their "No. 126 Finest Edge" models, which run near twice as much as their No. 125 line and say they're drop forged when the 125 doesn't. Then they also have their "No. 127 Keen Edge" line which says "Ideal to round the edges of leather". What's the deal??? Are the 126s/127s better for my purpose? Is the 126 better than the 125, or just a different purpose? If so do either of those out perform the Weaver stuff, even if Weaver out performs the 125? It's hard to tell! All are still far more affordable than the boutique companies.