Sovran81

I have a project coming up (strap harness) that I plan on riveting together and using a little hand sewing. I have been researching rivets. Solid rivets seem to be the way to go but I am worried about the rivets on inside of the straps chafing either from the washer edge or the peened rivet. Also the requested metal color is nickel. I found tubular rivets with rivet caps at Hanson Rivet. They are basically a solid rivet with a small tubular section at the end for peening inside the rivet cap. These appear to be just the ticket as the cap will cover the peened end. Has anyone used these type rivets or dealt with Hanson Rivet? I emailed them Frday and hope to hear from them tomorrow.

If you are not using a core, I have found a crown knot to be both functional and decorative. If using a core, the lace needs to be bound to the core, then a turksheads braided over it. Or if braiding through a ring there is another method that has been talked about in the braiding forum in a couple threads. They should appear on the first page. I braid but dont go through rings so dont feel qualified to give the information on those methods.

It is a piece of brass. He used brass because it was a piece he had laying around and wont leave possible stains the way steel would. I used aluminum on my beveler. Both are soft metals so they are easy to hand machine (cut with a coping saw and file). I have done away with the little finger because using it limits you to the thickness you can bevel. Instead I set the depth of the cut with the guide then lay an old credit card over the leather to keep it pressed down in front of the blade. doing this allows me run almost any thickness of leather through the beveler.

Always top notch work. I love seeing your name next to a post. It means I get a treat today.

It does make a difference. I have never seen roo lace pre-beveled , but I have run across ads for latigo lace pre-beveled. You can find vids to make a cheap beveler out of a block of wood on you tube. the 2 that come to mind are Abraided and Bernie46.

Use as much steel wool as you can dissolve. IIRC I got 6 pads to dissolve in 1 gallon. If it still smells like vinegar add more steel wool. Strain it first before filtering, or you will be changing lots of coffee filters to filter 1/4 cup at a time. The amount of tannins in the leather do contribute to how black it will be even with the black tea/coffee pretreatment. I have had some leather that I had to finish with black shoe polish while other leather just a conditioner. I love the look you got on your bag. It has so much more character then just a black bag.

Check out blueprint carriers. Most are expandable plastic tubes with caps. Amazon has them. http://www.amazon.com/Alvin-Telescoping-Plastic-Tube-27inches/dp/B000HF6IN6/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1332384874&sr=8-5 No worries with getting cardboard wet.

Pure tallow (except mutton) is readily available on ebay. I lucked out and got 26 pounds for $9. Tallow can be made by boiling any fat on the animal. The best fat to use is from around the kidneys and the best tallow is gotten from mutton. There are many different formulas for conditioners and waterprooing. Be aware that the 2 are not always the same. Conditioners are designed to maintain a small amount of moisture so the leather doesnt dry rot. Waterproofers are only used on 1 side so the leather can breathe on the other to maintain a certain moisture level by absorbing from the air.

Email notification aside ( I have mine turned off), a simple @dirtclod is an easy way to address whos post you are answering. For daily members and 1 clicks page loads of new content I like the view new content link at the top right of every page. @TexasJack Thank the heavens I dont use smoke signals anymore. hehe

Thanks Chef, I googled the DAP and really couldnt find a source. Where do you get it from?

Contact cement is what a lot of us use. Now I have a question about glue and since you started the thread I will just put it here. What is a good glue for oil tanned leather?

Sounds like it worth the $30 bucks to try out. Thanks Ferg

I have a splitter to reduce the thickness. It sound like you are saying it may be harder to split. How do you consider it stretch wise when compared to cow? I guess what I am asking is if it is stronger then cow, and doesnt have a lot of stretch then it should be good for braiding. Granted its not roo, and goat is supposed to be the next best, but goat has such horrible stretch that you waste alot of leather trimming your strands after stretching. Horse is affordable compared to either roo or goat. Would you mind cutting a 1/4" strand and measuring it before and after stretching it like you would for a braid strand? Horse hide is all butt so it would seem to be a fair test of stretch Vs. other types of hide. Edit: abrasion resistance is another question. how does it compare to cow? I would guess better because of superior density.

How stretchy is horse? Would it be suitable for braiding?

Looking at the first link I believe the core doesnt go through the the ring, creating the weak point at the ring. This is what I meant by the core doesnt provide strength since its not attached to the ring. By transitioning to a flat braid when you go through the ring it will maintain a neat braided appearance. once through the ring transition back to a round braid and you will cover the "unfinished" back side of the first braid layer. Braid a few inches down and then terminate with a turk as shown in the second link. To run the core through the ring and maintain the strength ( how big are your dogs? and arent show dogs trained to not pull? ) Use an eye splice like shown here. There are better vids, this is just the first one I found that seemed to show how simple splicing is and explained about tapering the splice. Using this method I dont see why you couldnt just round braid the core and the splice through the ring then terminate where the core is spliced in. Then cover with a turk. or add the T braid that Brain showed in your second link. That pretty much covers the work end of the lead. For the control end of the lead, I think i was still sleeping when I posted before. LOL I was thinking of a ring at both ends of the lead. Anyway it could be spliced in the same manner as the work end except with a larger eye and no ring. as to where to start the braid, since both ends double back on themselves around the splices I see your deliema. I would start at the control end splice working towards the loop then continue back towards the work end. This would cover the start of the strands. It may end up being neat enough to not require a turk to cover anything. The reason to start at this end is to have less strands to pull through the ring bolt when you get to the work end. I hope I have answered your questions and not confused you more. Finally I would listen to Brain first. He is the resident knot expert.

1. This is just my assumptions concerning a core. A core will only give added strength if it is attached at both ends. The only way I know to attach at both ends would be to do an eye splice using twisted rope as your core. this will give you the strength end to end and keep the diameter from getting too big. The splice area will still be larger than the core but thinner and stronger than other methods of doubling the rope back on itself securely. In my braiding the core doesnt give strength, its only the foundation for the braid. 2. If you splice a ring in with the core, I would braid until you hit the ring then go through the ring, possibly switching to a flat braid through the ring then go back to a round braid back over the core for a few inches. Terminate then cover with a turk.

I learned the 5 x 6 turk that Bernie has in the above vids and can pretty much do it without thought. I recently found Dracs old post with tutorial on the turk he cant identify (http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=431&st=0&p=24535&hl=floggers&fromsearch=1entry24535 ) . LOL He isnt the only one. Anyway in bernies vid he goes over 2 stands in 2 different sections of the knot before the interweave. Drac shows you where to go over the 2 strands 1 time. I have tried the Drac method a dozen times or more. the knot come out looking really good for a while. Everything is centered and square, it seems like it is finish perfect. Then it all goes to $h1T. It fails at the same point every time. I am pretty sure this knot needs a 2nd set of over two strands, but I havent got a clue where. Each time it failed I backed up a few and tried it somewhat different with no luck at all. Can anyone out there point me in the right direction?

I own one and like it. The good--- solid frame, solid tool steel blade instead of the bimetal or edge hardened blade, The blade is set up dead center on the roller, great finish on the frame. The handle locks down securely. The bad--- index markings for depth are only rough guess, The blade could be sharper out of the box, but hey couldnt they all. Controlled tapers are made a little more difficult due to the spring on the handle (this could just be me). My only disappointment is the roller. It is not billet and has an assembly gap from rolling the flat stock into the roller. I have measured the leather before, at, and after this gap and there is no difference so this small gap is purely asthetic. Would I recommend this splitter to a friend? Yes. it is accurate, simple to maintain and easy to use.

Thanks Sylvia. I will check out those links.

I have seen that splitter, I opted for one that would have the capacity for bellies also and have a keystone. If you are interested in beveling your strands, I have a pic of my homemade sizer/beveler in my gallery. Feel free to copy it, I did. For black on veg tanned I use vinegroon before cutting. I havent really played with other colors but when I try it I will probably make a batch of rit alcohol based dye and soak the strands before greasing and stretching. My thought is that the strand will allow the dye to soak in more thoroughly. Downside is that after stretching it might produce lighter color. Greasing may darken the color afterwards. Just another reason to use strands from the same section of hide. @Kiscien I checked out your website. That is some fine work. I work in paracord as well as leather. Unfortunately I have higher demand for the paracord whips so get little time to perfect my leather plaiting.

I stretch all my hide I plait with. Like Pete I cant always afford to use roo so I have experimented with other hides. The biggest determining factor for stretch I have found is where the strand comes from. A strand from the shoulders has almost no stretch while a strand from the belly is can stretch by 1/3. I split my strands to .8-1.3 mm. Roo happens to be about that thickness. Cow needs to be split to that. taking a strand from each animal the same size cut from the same area (shoulder/back) the roo stretches less. from the belly the roo seems to stretch more. Since I have only used roo a few times and they were female, I assumed the roo belly stretch had something to do with it being marsupial. I am far from an expert and didnt stay at a Holiday Inn last night, these were just my findings with the hides I have used. Edit- I try to keep my whips at 20-22 mm. I prefer the Aussie thin whips to the American 25mm thick ones.

Do you plan on using a shot bag? If so your finished whip might be very thick using 3-4 oz. That is 9-12 oz thickness of leather braided tight not including core material. That will make for a very small diameter core. Remember a whip is supposed to be supple once broken in.

Depending on the part of the hide the strand comes from determines the amount of stretch. I try to match strands from the same part of the hide so they all stretch the same. Yes you stretch the same as roo. Realistically I would rather have the strand break on the hook then on the whip. Heavily grease your strands before and during stretching. use more grease as you plait. It doesnt matter what type of critter leather you are using, greasing during plaiting is pretty much the last chance to get grease into the plait.

Sorry no app that I know of for the formulas. I picked them up over the years talking to whip plaiters. The width of the braid..... I am not sure I follow you. The thickness of the strand crosses over a number of other strands which is giving you a thicker diameter then you thought you would have. The width of the braid can affect thickness if you are bunching the braid up as you plait. As for the core size, use the first formula. Just as any math equation if you have only one unknown in an equation you can figure the unknown. I tried to run the formula to determine core size but I must have forgotten something since high school. Using the metric system makes all that math alot easier.

Nice job. I like the way you put the pentagram at an angle. Its up to the viewer to see it as they want.