rktaylor

Slickhorn, Building saddles is a new hobby (one built: 2 and 3 currently under construction) for me so take this for what it cost you. I do not have a lot of experience repairing saddles either, but I am pretty good with my hands and like to build things. A good saddle school was not feasible for me. I already have a job and just couldn't justify the time away. So I decided to learn by doing. I think your concept of building a breaking saddle as your first one is good. However, I would not build it out of cheap materials because you expect it to be rough. My first saddle was built on a Batie tree, because it was economical and I really didn't know any better. It will be on a rack as soon as my other one is done. If I can sell my new one, then I will ride it until I get another one built. I am currently working on Bowden (about $275 +shipping) and Quality (about $450 delivered) trees. The Bowden is far and away better than the Batie and the Quality is better than the Bowden (you get what you pay for). I would like to see a Timberline to determine where I would place it relative to these two. I would also echo the comments about a higher quality tree being easier to build on. I think the Quality tree has a better, smoother finish. Blocking the skirts was easier on this tree as well, but that might just be a difference in the trees not the manufacturer. You're going to have $700-800 in other material (if you don't mess anything up), why try to save $100 or so on a tree? Maybe I should tell my wife how much I have invested in tools so she won't complain when I buy leather. It's probably best that she doesn't know. Keep us posted on the progress, Randy

Ron and Oltoot, Thanks for the quick reply. I actually have two saddles under construction at this time. This is a Will James for me. The wife's barrel saddle with the in-skirt rigging is coming along nicely. I may get the fleece sewn on the skirts this week. I am moving slower than I want and rethinking a lot of decisions. However, I have eliminated self imposed deadlines and am relaxing a little more. They will be done when I am finished. Ron, I can see how it took you a year on your new saddle. I like the suggestions on the rigging plate and will make a new pattern. I can trim the Cheyenne roll. For once, I may have some leather to trim that's not already on the floor. I can trim the skirts starting in front of the rear dee and hide the current stitch line under the seat jockey. I'll use some paper before I start cutting the leather. Thanks again for the suggestions. I am having a lot of fun. Randy

I can't decide if my skirts are 'deep' enough on the sides. I intended for them to be longer, but everything is still a learning process. I was ready to order more leather until I started my rigging plate pattern. Now I am tempted to keep them. But then I start thinking about my rear jockeys and wonder if I am going to spend a lot of time trying to cover up more mistakes. An experienced saddle maker suggested I hang the rear dees below the skirts so the billet fold is on the pad. I have a lot of respect for his work, but this seems counter to most recommendations. Any thoughts on the placement of the rear dee and potentially moving it lower? It can't go higher or the rivets will be too close to the bars. He also suggested I shorten the skirts in the back, but that is not an option as I have already cut a stitch groove. Dimensions: The skirts are about 3" from the bar starting just behind the point of the cantle to the back. The base of the rigging in the front is about 6.5" below the bar. The pink line on the pattern is a little under 6" below the bars, but still well below the skirts. Overall skirt length is about 28.5". Any comments or suggestions regarding anything in the photos are welcome. Thanks in advance. Randy

Thanks to all. I have decided to put the swell cover over the rigging. Now I just need to get to that point in construction. I am going to the Boot and Saddle Show in Wichita Falls tomorrow and spend part of my children's inheritance. Randy

Ron and Bob, Thanks for the feedback. I am learning that there are a lot ways to do it right and probably more ways to do it wrong. Since I don't have anyone looking over my shoulder your comments are beneficial. I don't know that I will ever build enough saddles to develop "my method" but I am having fun learning. Randy

I don't want to start a range war, but I am asking anyway. Most of my reference material says to put the swell cover on before the rigging plates. I suppose the reasoning is based mostly on ease of repair. Is there a compelling reason why I should install my riggings before my swell cover? It's a Will James tree (13" swells) with a flat plate rigging if that matters. Randy

Keith, It will be an in-skirt rigging. Thanks for the advice. Randy

Keith, Thanks for the feedback. I did the other side of the cover and I think it is much better. It is tighter at the top and bottom. I need to make sure I get a better stitch line along the welt so it is more uniform. I wasn't paying enough attention, because I knew it was just practice. I re-read the section in Harry Adams' book. It makes more sense after a little practical experience. At least now, I have a better idea of how to fit the whole swell cover and the little things that I need to focus on. Right now I have to finish my design for the cantle back so I can tool it. Then I will get back on the swell cover. I might even make some spur straps in between to rest my mind. Randy

I already messed this cover up, but decided to use it to practice welts. Since my welt is not very good, it looks like I made a wise decision. That doesn't happen often. I tried to keep the welt as low as I could and I know I am not as tight at the top as I would like to be. The part that concerns me is the bottom. My kneejerk reaction is that the bottom is wrong, but maybe the top is keeping the bottom from being tight. Thanks for any help. Randy

Bruce and CW, Thanks for the leads. I will check them out. According to Jeremiah Watt, I need some Horseshoe Brand tools. Maybe he will throw in some conchos if I order some. Bob, You're talking my language. I was actually thinking about having the local machine shop make some internally threaded shafts like you describe and just replace the entire bolt. Are you putting conchos on both sides or just the outside? Randy

Thanks Keith. Now I have some work for the evening.

I have seen decorative nuts or Conchos on the ends of stirrup bolts, but can't seem to find them. Maybe that's because I don't know what keywords to search. Does anyone know a potential source? Thanks, Randy

Ron, Thanks for the tips. I printed it and put it in my file. Is there an equivalent to Tan Kote? Randy

I salvaged this (at least as far as I know). I skived a little next to the cantle where it wasn't laying as level with the cantle as I wanted. I installed the cantle filler and glued it the back. After I trimmed it (my Rose round knife that I got from Bruce Johnson is pure gold) to the desired width, it looks pretty good by my standards. It's flared out at the sides some, but the top is pretty level without notching it. When I get done, what it's shaped like is what I wanted. Ha. Keith, I don't quite follow what you mean on the pattern, but was planning to cut the next one pretty straight across the bottom like Ron says. It was definitely too loose across the top, so I hope to get the next one a little tighter. Thanks again for the help. I am doing more working and less head scratching on these saddles. Randy

Here's a photo of the pattern. I cut it fairly square across the bottom and then fit it like the Jeremiah Watt video. It's bigger than necessary, but the first one I cut was too small. I think I will make this one work. It looks better this morning, than I originally thought. Buying three sides was good advice, but I don't think I will have enough left for a scabbard. I still have another one to do (on the wife's saddle), so this advice is helpful. Randy

Ron, Could you share some details on the antiquing method you use. I know there are some other tutorials, but I am just curious about your method. I really like the way it looks, so it's ripe for emulating. Thanks, Randy

Well, Jeremiah Watt says, "If you've done it right, it will just roll over." I guess I didn't do it right. This is the second one I have glued on and the third one I have cut out. I have part of it like I want, but not all of it. The glue is breaking loose but maybe it's not as bad as I think. It is also not as flush with the cantle as I would like. Maybe I should hammer it more. I have more leather and am not opposed to cutting another one. Sorry about the rotated photo. Thanks for any advice. Randy

Oltoot, I don't believe I followed your instructions real close, but I skived my arms off, had the little lady sit on it, and skived some more. I think I have a pretty good ground seat now. I am drawing my stamping design, then need to practice some. After that I will put the cantle back on and then on to the fork cover. Thanks for the input. Randy

Ron, Let's deal with the last question first. The stirrup leathers are 2 1/2 inches. I thought the same thing about the front riser. My primary references are Harry Adams' book and Jeremiah Watt's DVD. Both of these are based on a Wade tree. This looks more like how JW does it. However after three attempts at a metal seat strainer over the weekend, I may do an all leather seat. I think you are right about my rigging placement. I don't have my hardware yet, so I was just planning. I figure poster board is cheaper than leather. Oltoot, I was confused, then thought I understood, but alas realized I was still confused. My thoughts behind the one piece top it that I can get it to fit right and do all my tooling on it. I can cut the bottom piece larger, then block it. I can cut it to match the top after they are glued. This seems pretty easy to me, but that could be because I don't know what I am getting into. I was going to make the top piece out of 13-15 oz and the skirt out of 10-11 oz. So I thought this way would be fairly strong. Maybe a lot stronger than it needs to be. CW, I think I will end up a bit smaller that these. I just wanted to make sure I had enough leather around the bars to block. Once, I get my rigging plates this week, I can really see where I want to place them. I haven't given up on a light weight, but I have tempered my expectations some. The bottom line is I don't think I can leave enough leather out to keep it light and still end up with the saddle I want to build. I know Stohlman's V3 has the in-skirt rigging, but I only have the first two volumes. I still have a lot of questions, but I will try to ration them a little to ease the load on everyone here and maybe increase the uptake by me. Thanks for all the input and advice. Even if I don't take it, it's still valuable. Randy

I have started working on a barrel saddle. Based on feedback regarding building a lighter saddle, I decided to go with a skirt rigging. Any comments on the pattern? I put some dimensions on the pattern. These may appear skewed since the poster board is not pulled up tight to the tree all the way around. What about the dimensions? Is there too much or not enough clearance from the tree? I am planning on a 3/4 rigging. I have a #13 ring rigging ordered from Sheridan. The pink line would be the intended edge of the top skirt for the rigging cover. I am working off the style that Bob Brenner posted in another thread. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing it again here so you don't have to look for it. My plan is to cut the bottom skirt oversized and then match it to the top after it is blocked. Thanks in advance, Randy

Thanks for all the input. Truth be told, my wife would probably prefer new kitchen chairs over a saddle. But I am not making chairs. Like most of them, she tolerates a lot and smiles through most of it. I was leaning toward an in-skirt rigging, so you have convinced me to go that way. I will post some skirt/rigging patterns when I start working on it to make sure I understand what you are saying related to riggings. I like the idea of leaving a space on the skirt between the front and rear rigging. I bet, based on projected usage it will last longer than 25 years. I get what you are saying on the Bowden tree. My first saddle was on a Batie tree, so I am looking for comparisons. I also have a Quality tree ordered for a saddle I am building for me (you see where my priorities are). I had a friend who was going to order Timberline, so I would have a good sample to look at. He hasn't got off high center yet so I won't get to touch one of those for awhile. I wanted the barrel tree, because I live in a college town with lots of cowgirls. I figure if I ever want to sell saddles, I need to tap into their dad's money. haha I was thinking about buying a side of 10-11 ounce HO, but am going to wait until I know what else I need to save on shipping. Since Oltoot told me to order 3 sides of heavy skirting for my saddle, I have some left that could be used for some of this saddle. I think 2 1/2 inch stirrup leathers and was considering half leathers. I don't know about going down to 2 inches. It's hard to build something light when you have a tendency to overbuild everything. There will be a lot of tooling practice for this saddle because I have a floral pattern in mind. Maybe I should start this weekend. Thanks again. Randy

I am planning to make a saddle for my wife. It will just be used for trail riding. I have a BWBR tree ordered from Bowden. The two primary constraints are: 1. It must be comfortable (I'll take my chances here). 2. It must be light. Her current saddle weighs just over 22 lbs. That's because there's not much to it. My goal is to stay around 25 lbs if possible. Questions: What is the lightest leather that you would recommend? I have some HO 13-15 oz that could be used for some pieces (ground seat, swell cover, ??), but thought I should have something lighter for the fenders, stirrup leathers, seat, etc. I was planning on a 3/4 in-skirt rigging, but could do a single O-rigging. Any thoughts on which is the best option to keep weight down? Which option would be easiest for a novice saddle maker like me? Thanks for any advice. Randy

Ron, That's really cool. You give us newbies something to shoot for. The only question I have is: Why a year and a half? Thanks for sharing. Randy

Do you want to do this as a hobby or a profession? I looked at a lot of saddle schools before I built my first saddle, but the bottom line is I did not have the time to attend one. I have a full time job already and was not looking for a new profession. If you are considering it as a hobby, I can offer my experience. However, I am a long ways from being a saddle maker and further from being a brain surgeon. Randy

Ron, You know I do not have the trained eye that others do, but the 'flow' looks great (rear jockeys onto the skirts and the seat jockey). It all 'fits' together. I can see the issue you point out with the rear rigging but it certainly doesn't look bad. I see CW's point on the screw also. If either of those are your worst mistake, pat yourself on the back. I really like the tooling on the rear jockey. The way that you blended the border and basket weave with the floral design. Very nice indeed. Take some time to ride it before you start your second. Randy