rktaylor

I am almost done with my skirts and have my riggings installed. I am wondering if I should oil my skirts before installation. I won't be able to get to most of them after they are installed. If I do, should I oil everything I have made to this point? I am also thinking that I should cover my swells before installing skirts. Thanks in advance for the advice. Randy

Thanks for the tips. I will get some band aids and charge ahead. Randy

I volunteered to replace the fleece on a friend's saddle. Actually I got some round bales out of the deal, but now I might take them back. Somebody ran the saddle strings all the way through which I can redo without repeating. However the pockets for the tree bars are sew through the fleece as well. Furthermore, the pockets are part of the rigging and go under the swell cover. I am pretty sure I can remove it all and sew the pockets back on before the fleece is installed. But then I would have to realign the riggings. So, should I: 1. Do this the easiest (fix it like it is now) but probably not correct method? 2. Remove the skirts and riggings and fix it like it should be? 3. Return the saddle as is along with the hay? (not really an option, but it crossed my mind) Thanks, Randy

Billy, This thread kind of took on it's own life, but the discussion has been great for me. Thanks for all the thoughts. Randy

Ron, I took the one photo of my saddle directly from the side so that you could see the rise in the ground seat. I got that from another thread on marketing saddles. The other angle that is helpful is looking straight down. Then you can see the leg cut outs. I am learning a lot about ground seats. You know my second saddle thread turned into a ground seat discussion. It was really beneficial for me. The saddle is looking good. I am going to work on rigging plates tonight and maybe my skirts some. Good luck on the spring deadline. It will be here before you know it. Randy

Thanks Billy. I am locked on the metal strainer for now. If I ever get to a 4th saddle, I am leaning toward all leather. Randy

Big Sioux, Thanks for the compliments. Those aren't the 50th welts, but they aren't the first either. They're just the first ones I kept. The skirts were modeled after the saddle this is intended to replace (reference comment to Bob above about what to copy). They don't look too out of balance to me, but I can see your point. I think they actually may have ended up a little shallower in the rear after I blocked them. The skirts on the reference saddle are not blocked. I see what you are talking about on the back of the skirts. I think the rear of the skirts gets straight too soon and the straight edge is to long. I hear Jeremiah Watt echoing in my ear, "There are no straight lines on a round skirt saddle." I'll do better on the Will James. You are right, there is a lot of educational material available. Some is really good, some is ok and some not so good. I have a little of all three categories. What I use most are the Stohlman books, Watt DVD, Harry Adams' book, and this forum (in no particular order). Try to stay warm up in SD. Randy

Bob, I have thought about getting a good profile gauge and modeling a good seat. I guess since you did it that just means is was another good idea that I didn't act on. When I look at most of the saddles in my tack room, I am reminded of a statement from Stohlman's book regarding using poor saddles to learn construction. Basically, you can't learn how to make a good saddle, if all you do is look at poorly constructed saddles. I have a friend who recently purchased a really nice saddle. I may profile the seat on it. Take care, Randy

Ron, I appreciate you mentioning it, because the ground seat is the sculpted part of the saddle. The Cary Schwarz DVD I mentioned is called "The Ground Seat" and is produced by the Traditional Cowboy Arts Association. I think it's $45 on Amazon. I patched a triangular piece of leather in my Will James over the weekend to move the low point on the seat forward. I don't think it's as far forward as it should be, but it's a lot better. I am starting to see the triangle bicycle seat that is often mentioned. I would like to go to Prescott, but it's not in the budget this year. Thanks again, Randy

Ron, Thanks for the comments. I used Blevins buckles, but like you say we are talking ounces at this point. But take a few ounces out and pretty soon you are at a pound. I delayed my reply because I have been looking at a lot of seats since you posted. I am thinking about buying Cary Schwarz's DVD on ground seats. Anyway, I think (and the key word is think) I get it. I do believe I have placed the rider a further back than I should have. I don't think it's too steep for the way it's formed, but if I moved the rider forward it probably would be. I also think I need some improvement near the cantle points (as well as many other places). The saddle feels pretty comfortable on the stand. When it warms up a bit, I'll cinch it on a horse and see how the wife likes it. I am getting back to work on my Will James today and am really taking a hard look at my ground seat, before I start working on my riggings. Thanks again for making me think and study. It's good for the mind. Randy

Thanks Tramp. I know nothing about V-Twins so maybe we're even there. Nice catch CW. I saw that after posting the photos. I am not planning to have a billet, so it's even more important to get it burnished. Randy

Ron, It is probably hard to judge from photos, but if you put this one and the first side by side any sane person would pick this one. It's definitely a learning process and I still have a long way to go, but it's been a fun journey so far. Bob, I think it would be tough to get another half pound out of it and still have a decent saddle. I chose the Mother Hubbard style skirts/rigging because I thought it would be lighter. Given another chance, I would use rear jockeys. I think they would make the back look cleaner and be easier to build. Oltoot, I knew you were going to comment on the rivets and I don't doubt you for a second. In my defense, they aren't domed too much. I just tried to curl the edges some, so there is still a fairly flat surface. It may be a weak argument, but with the projected use and my young wife's age those rivets will be someone else's problem. I did plug around (probably 1.5" or so) and inside the rigging hardware, so that should wear fine. Thanks for all the comments. When it warms up some I will cinch it on a horse. Randy

Well, I just finished my second saddle. It's on a 14.5" Bowden BWBR tree that finished at about 13.74". It has 13" swells and a 4x13 cantle. It's mostly 10-11 oz. Hermann Oak with some heavier skirting in places. It weighs in at 28.75 lbs with no cinch. As I posted earlier, I wanted the saddle to be as light as possible (spouse request). It's about 6 lbs heavier than the saddle she currently uses, but there just isn't much in that saddle. I believe it was Bob Brenner who said 28 lbs was about the lightest I could get without scrimping on methods and material. I wanted to do something different with this saddle (relative to the first) so I could learn. The in-skirt rigging was fun, but a bit of a challenge for a novice like me in that I didn't have any educational material to study. I think it's pretty solid and I like the way it went together. The Cheyenne Roll and welts on the fork were also something new to me (really everything is new to me). I would say that there are very few pieces on this saddle that were the first attempt. Thanks to everyone who provided advice along the way. It was extremely important to me even if I didn't use it. Now I need to get back on the Will James I am building for me. Then I would like to build another one of these so I can fix some of my mistakes. Someday, I would like to build one with a master looking over my shoulder shaking his/her head. These are the Glamour Shots. Comments, suggestions, and scathing critiques are welcomed. If you would like a close up of a certain area let me know. I have some less glamorous pictures that I may post in Saddle Construction to point out what I think went wrong to cause them. Randy

I am certainly no expert, but I would get a tree that he can grow into. As you know it's a lot of work and you don't want to do it every couple of years. Do you think you could make the stirrup leathers and fenders to fit him now and then change them when he out grows them? I am interested to see what you decide to do. Randy

It's looking good Ron. I should have one finished in a week or so. I will post some photos in the gallery when I finish it. Randy

I think that looks pretty good. It's not world class, but neither is mine. I plan to spend a lot of time in 2015 just working on floral patterns. It's just time in the saddle. I wonder if it's better to carve the same pattern multiple times to track success or move on. There's a lot of different ways to draw all the components and each seems to require different tooling. Carve another one. Randy

Well here it is. Let the fur fly. I give it a passing grade, but it didn't set the curve that's for sure. I'm going to give Oltoot's challenge a go. As Bob Parks says, there's a difference between what you can draw and what you can carve. Randy

Thanks Slick and Oltoot, I was going to add more leaves, but got hung up trying to get the flow right. Now that I have a better feel for flow, I'll give it a shot. Then I'll tackle the buckles and slots. Randy

Thanks for the comments. I already have more spur straps than I have feet, but I need the practice. I have always struggled with flow as well until I had an aha moment on these. I have Bob Parks' book and attended a seminar at the Wichita Falls show. I think the part that I couldn't grasp is that when folks talk about flow, it seemed backwards to me. Backwards in that the flow arrows go the opposite direction that plants grow. I am just a little hard headed, but based on my father and son I believe it's genetic. Randy

I would say this is my first attempt at floral design, but it's just the first one I haven't tossed out. Comments and suggestions are welcome. Randy

Keith, Thanks for the tips. Your description of fitting around the swells makes perfect sense. The heck with Black Friday, this is the task for the day. Randy

Here's the status on my barrel saddle. There are certainly some mistakes, but most (as far as I know)seem fairly minor at this stage. I plan to fit the seat over the Thanksgiving break and welcome any input. I struggled with this on my first saddle and ended up doing it twice. So I am looking for some improvement. I think I fully understand the procedures of Jeremiah Watt and Harry Adams. However both of them are fitting on a Wade tree. Any tips for fitting around these swells? I really feel like my skirts were blocked good, but the top side of the bars are still more visible than I want. I am not sure I can do anything about this now, but tips for future efforts would be valuable. The seat will be rough out. Once the seat is fit and the cantle binding stitched, I plan to tool the swells and add the meandering cross border on the cantle binding. Then I will antique the swells, cantle binding and skirts. Once the skirts are finished, I can lace and install them. I like the way this saddle is coming together. It's been much easy than the first which makes it more fun and hobbies are supposed to be fun and relaxing. Any and all suggestions are welcome (even if I am not smart enough to use them). Happy Thanksgiving to everyone, Randy

My experience with Panhandle has been great. I have bought almost all my materials for three saddles (hardware, leather, woolskin) from them. I am by no means their top customer, but they are my top supplier. Prices are more than reasonable and the service is great. I order most of my stuff over the internet, but call them on occasion. I even stopped by once when I was passing through Amarillo. They are extremely nice folks and very helpful. Their Hermann Oak is tannery run so there will be some variability. I haven't bought latigo sides, but they cut some saddle strings for me when I was in the store. They were better than any I could get elsewhere (at least as far as I know). I'll keep buying from them until I can justify the 10 side minimum from Hermann Oak. That could be a long time. Randy

Keith, Thanks for the comments. I see what you mean about the seat jockey. That's my fourth version and it looks better than the first three. I didn't think it was egg shaped until I put it in place. I was actually trying to focus on how the three pieces go together. Point well taken on the rigging and the depth of the seat jockey. I am going to look at a lot of saddles over the next week and hopefully find the look I want. My fear it's that the saddle will end up looking long and skinny. However, that's the way the skirts are cut. I really appreciate the time you took to provide feedback. Randy

Slowing down, breathing, and not cutting leather. I spent most of Friday cutting up beer cartons and making patterns. The attached pictures indicate where I stopped. I needed more beer cartons and decided that didn't go with cutting things. I should note that I am thinking about shortening my skirts about an inch in the back, but I am not cutting them yet. The rear dee is kind of high, but the rivets would not be on the tree. I am also thinking about cutting the skirts along the stitch line where the rear dee is located. I am not completely satisfied with the front rigging. The bottom of the plate is 5.75 inches from the tree bar and the center of the slot is about 5.25 inches down. Earlier suggestions (not on this thread) were closer to 6.5 inches. This means it should be dropped about an inch. My next concern is the seat jockey only partially covering the rigging plate at the front of the rear dee. The seat jockey could probably altered some to cover this or I may move the dee forward about a half inch. It was good experience even though I wanted to cut leather. It will be at least a week before I get back to this, so I have some time to 'stew' on it for a while. Any comments about flow, form, etc. are welcome. I really appreciate all the experience that is freely shared. Randy