rktaylor

I think that looks pretty good. It's not world class, but neither is mine. I plan to spend a lot of time in 2015 just working on floral patterns. It's just time in the saddle. I wonder if it's better to carve the same pattern multiple times to track success or move on. There's a lot of different ways to draw all the components and each seems to require different tooling. Carve another one. Randy

Well here it is. Let the fur fly. I give it a passing grade, but it didn't set the curve that's for sure. I'm going to give Oltoot's challenge a go. As Bob Parks says, there's a difference between what you can draw and what you can carve. Randy

Thanks Slick and Oltoot, I was going to add more leaves, but got hung up trying to get the flow right. Now that I have a better feel for flow, I'll give it a shot. Then I'll tackle the buckles and slots. Randy

Thanks for the comments. I already have more spur straps than I have feet, but I need the practice. I have always struggled with flow as well until I had an aha moment on these. I have Bob Parks' book and attended a seminar at the Wichita Falls show. I think the part that I couldn't grasp is that when folks talk about flow, it seemed backwards to me. Backwards in that the flow arrows go the opposite direction that plants grow. I am just a little hard headed, but based on my father and son I believe it's genetic. Randy

I would say this is my first attempt at floral design, but it's just the first one I haven't tossed out. Comments and suggestions are welcome. Randy

Keith, Thanks for the tips. Your description of fitting around the swells makes perfect sense. The heck with Black Friday, this is the task for the day. Randy

Here's the status on my barrel saddle. There are certainly some mistakes, but most (as far as I know)seem fairly minor at this stage. I plan to fit the seat over the Thanksgiving break and welcome any input. I struggled with this on my first saddle and ended up doing it twice. So I am looking for some improvement. I think I fully understand the procedures of Jeremiah Watt and Harry Adams. However both of them are fitting on a Wade tree. Any tips for fitting around these swells? I really feel like my skirts were blocked good, but the top side of the bars are still more visible than I want. I am not sure I can do anything about this now, but tips for future efforts would be valuable. The seat will be rough out. Once the seat is fit and the cantle binding stitched, I plan to tool the swells and add the meandering cross border on the cantle binding. Then I will antique the swells, cantle binding and skirts. Once the skirts are finished, I can lace and install them. I like the way this saddle is coming together. It's been much easy than the first which makes it more fun and hobbies are supposed to be fun and relaxing. Any and all suggestions are welcome (even if I am not smart enough to use them). Happy Thanksgiving to everyone, Randy

My experience with Panhandle has been great. I have bought almost all my materials for three saddles (hardware, leather, woolskin) from them. I am by no means their top customer, but they are my top supplier. Prices are more than reasonable and the service is great. I order most of my stuff over the internet, but call them on occasion. I even stopped by once when I was passing through Amarillo. They are extremely nice folks and very helpful. Their Hermann Oak is tannery run so there will be some variability. I haven't bought latigo sides, but they cut some saddle strings for me when I was in the store. They were better than any I could get elsewhere (at least as far as I know). I'll keep buying from them until I can justify the 10 side minimum from Hermann Oak. That could be a long time. Randy

Keith, Thanks for the comments. I see what you mean about the seat jockey. That's my fourth version and it looks better than the first three. I didn't think it was egg shaped until I put it in place. I was actually trying to focus on how the three pieces go together. Point well taken on the rigging and the depth of the seat jockey. I am going to look at a lot of saddles over the next week and hopefully find the look I want. My fear it's that the saddle will end up looking long and skinny. However, that's the way the skirts are cut. I really appreciate the time you took to provide feedback. Randy

Slowing down, breathing, and not cutting leather. I spent most of Friday cutting up beer cartons and making patterns. The attached pictures indicate where I stopped. I needed more beer cartons and decided that didn't go with cutting things. I should note that I am thinking about shortening my skirts about an inch in the back, but I am not cutting them yet. The rear dee is kind of high, but the rivets would not be on the tree. I am also thinking about cutting the skirts along the stitch line where the rear dee is located. I am not completely satisfied with the front rigging. The bottom of the plate is 5.75 inches from the tree bar and the center of the slot is about 5.25 inches down. Earlier suggestions (not on this thread) were closer to 6.5 inches. This means it should be dropped about an inch. My next concern is the seat jockey only partially covering the rigging plate at the front of the rear dee. The seat jockey could probably altered some to cover this or I may move the dee forward about a half inch. It was good experience even though I wanted to cut leather. It will be at least a week before I get back to this, so I have some time to 'stew' on it for a while. Any comments about flow, form, etc. are welcome. I really appreciate all the experience that is freely shared. Randy

Slickhorn, Building saddles is a new hobby (one built: 2 and 3 currently under construction) for me so take this for what it cost you. I do not have a lot of experience repairing saddles either, but I am pretty good with my hands and like to build things. A good saddle school was not feasible for me. I already have a job and just couldn't justify the time away. So I decided to learn by doing. I think your concept of building a breaking saddle as your first one is good. However, I would not build it out of cheap materials because you expect it to be rough. My first saddle was built on a Batie tree, because it was economical and I really didn't know any better. It will be on a rack as soon as my other one is done. If I can sell my new one, then I will ride it until I get another one built. I am currently working on Bowden (about $275 +shipping) and Quality (about $450 delivered) trees. The Bowden is far and away better than the Batie and the Quality is better than the Bowden (you get what you pay for). I would like to see a Timberline to determine where I would place it relative to these two. I would also echo the comments about a higher quality tree being easier to build on. I think the Quality tree has a better, smoother finish. Blocking the skirts was easier on this tree as well, but that might just be a difference in the trees not the manufacturer. You're going to have $700-800 in other material (if you don't mess anything up), why try to save $100 or so on a tree? Maybe I should tell my wife how much I have invested in tools so she won't complain when I buy leather. It's probably best that she doesn't know. Keep us posted on the progress, Randy

Ron and Oltoot, Thanks for the quick reply. I actually have two saddles under construction at this time. This is a Will James for me. The wife's barrel saddle with the in-skirt rigging is coming along nicely. I may get the fleece sewn on the skirts this week. I am moving slower than I want and rethinking a lot of decisions. However, I have eliminated self imposed deadlines and am relaxing a little more. They will be done when I am finished. Ron, I can see how it took you a year on your new saddle. I like the suggestions on the rigging plate and will make a new pattern. I can trim the Cheyenne roll. For once, I may have some leather to trim that's not already on the floor. I can trim the skirts starting in front of the rear dee and hide the current stitch line under the seat jockey. I'll use some paper before I start cutting the leather. Thanks again for the suggestions. I am having a lot of fun. Randy

I can't decide if my skirts are 'deep' enough on the sides. I intended for them to be longer, but everything is still a learning process. I was ready to order more leather until I started my rigging plate pattern. Now I am tempted to keep them. But then I start thinking about my rear jockeys and wonder if I am going to spend a lot of time trying to cover up more mistakes. An experienced saddle maker suggested I hang the rear dees below the skirts so the billet fold is on the pad. I have a lot of respect for his work, but this seems counter to most recommendations. Any thoughts on the placement of the rear dee and potentially moving it lower? It can't go higher or the rivets will be too close to the bars. He also suggested I shorten the skirts in the back, but that is not an option as I have already cut a stitch groove. Dimensions: The skirts are about 3" from the bar starting just behind the point of the cantle to the back. The base of the rigging in the front is about 6.5" below the bar. The pink line on the pattern is a little under 6" below the bars, but still well below the skirts. Overall skirt length is about 28.5". Any comments or suggestions regarding anything in the photos are welcome. Thanks in advance. Randy

Thanks to all. I have decided to put the swell cover over the rigging. Now I just need to get to that point in construction. I am going to the Boot and Saddle Show in Wichita Falls tomorrow and spend part of my children's inheritance. Randy

Ron and Bob, Thanks for the feedback. I am learning that there are a lot ways to do it right and probably more ways to do it wrong. Since I don't have anyone looking over my shoulder your comments are beneficial. I don't know that I will ever build enough saddles to develop "my method" but I am having fun learning. Randy

I don't want to start a range war, but I am asking anyway. Most of my reference material says to put the swell cover on before the rigging plates. I suppose the reasoning is based mostly on ease of repair. Is there a compelling reason why I should install my riggings before my swell cover? It's a Will James tree (13" swells) with a flat plate rigging if that matters. Randy

Keith, It will be an in-skirt rigging. Thanks for the advice. Randy

Keith, Thanks for the feedback. I did the other side of the cover and I think it is much better. It is tighter at the top and bottom. I need to make sure I get a better stitch line along the welt so it is more uniform. I wasn't paying enough attention, because I knew it was just practice. I re-read the section in Harry Adams' book. It makes more sense after a little practical experience. At least now, I have a better idea of how to fit the whole swell cover and the little things that I need to focus on. Right now I have to finish my design for the cantle back so I can tool it. Then I will get back on the swell cover. I might even make some spur straps in between to rest my mind. Randy

I already messed this cover up, but decided to use it to practice welts. Since my welt is not very good, it looks like I made a wise decision. That doesn't happen often. I tried to keep the welt as low as I could and I know I am not as tight at the top as I would like to be. The part that concerns me is the bottom. My kneejerk reaction is that the bottom is wrong, but maybe the top is keeping the bottom from being tight. Thanks for any help. Randy

Bruce and CW, Thanks for the leads. I will check them out. According to Jeremiah Watt, I need some Horseshoe Brand tools. Maybe he will throw in some conchos if I order some. Bob, You're talking my language. I was actually thinking about having the local machine shop make some internally threaded shafts like you describe and just replace the entire bolt. Are you putting conchos on both sides or just the outside? Randy

Thanks Keith. Now I have some work for the evening.

I have seen decorative nuts or Conchos on the ends of stirrup bolts, but can't seem to find them. Maybe that's because I don't know what keywords to search. Does anyone know a potential source? Thanks, Randy

Ron, Thanks for the tips. I printed it and put it in my file. Is there an equivalent to Tan Kote? Randy

I salvaged this (at least as far as I know). I skived a little next to the cantle where it wasn't laying as level with the cantle as I wanted. I installed the cantle filler and glued it the back. After I trimmed it (my Rose round knife that I got from Bruce Johnson is pure gold) to the desired width, it looks pretty good by my standards. It's flared out at the sides some, but the top is pretty level without notching it. When I get done, what it's shaped like is what I wanted. Ha. Keith, I don't quite follow what you mean on the pattern, but was planning to cut the next one pretty straight across the bottom like Ron says. It was definitely too loose across the top, so I hope to get the next one a little tighter. Thanks again for the help. I am doing more working and less head scratching on these saddles. Randy

Here's a photo of the pattern. I cut it fairly square across the bottom and then fit it like the Jeremiah Watt video. It's bigger than necessary, but the first one I cut was too small. I think I will make this one work. It looks better this morning, than I originally thought. Buying three sides was good advice, but I don't think I will have enough left for a scabbard. I still have another one to do (on the wife's saddle), so this advice is helpful. Randy