Tosch

Thank you both for your thoughts!

In an old Visalia catalogue the D-ring for attaching the rear cinch billets is placed centered below the point of cantle. See saddles 1,5,6 in the picture. I think this makes a lot of sense since - with the saddles I see - the tree starts to turn upward @ behind the point of cantle. I would think you would want that pull-down effect of the rear cinch before the tree turns upward. However, most saddles I see (pictures of) today have the D-ring placed further back. Either with the center of the D ring just behind the point of cantle (pic 2) or really behind the point of cantle (pic 3). Where do you think the rear cinch D-ring should be placed and why?

Well, the horse side of mine has a diameter of 7 fingers (did not have a tape with me) which measures @ 5 3/4". Hope it helps.

Big Sioux, could you give us a link to the website you mentioned, please. Just curious what the lady saddle maker has to say. Sounds like something that was discussed here on this forum a number of years back. Thanks in advance.

Since you have not receive an answer yet, you may want to click on this link http://saddleblog.blogspot.ch/2010/01/swade-saddle.html and have a look at what Steve Mason calls a swade saddle tree and describes as a wade with swells. Hope this helps.

If I am not mistaken they make it exclusively for a Germany based saddle Company. Their Website might even say so. Maybe that company will sell you one? There was a report on here from someone (from Hawaii ?) who did build on their EVO.. tree. Seems to be a bit flexible as well. Hope it helps.

Bob, thank you! And I do understand it is a (huge!!!) work in progress and the wording might change over time. Thus probably explains that the wording is not always the same throughout the whole "article" or book as puplished online (which I do appreciate a lot! Your friendly explanation eagarding QH bars opens another question for me (well, for you ) "Northwest and Arizona bars in quarter horses. These bar designs consist of bar sub elements such as rock, flare, twist, length, etc. that fit the breed conformation" I always thought that the difference is the stirrup leather cut in the bars. I do know that one tree maker in Texas (not a custom maker in the sence of the the Nickkels and others) makes his arizona bars with rounder front bar pads than his Northwest bars, at least that is what he told me when I telephoned him more then 10 years ago. On second thought, it makes sense that different stirrup slot configurations influence other elements of bar design. Or are you saying that besides that the overall design is different because, well NW and Arizoner Ropers just are different ? - Not counting that "every maker does things differently (I hear you Denise ..). Or did I misread what you are saying? Thank you!

I have to admit now I am a bit confused: From your saddle fit project page "bar angle vs gullet width" http://www.saddlemakers.org/id198.htm and http://www.saddlemakers.org/id204.htm I gained the understanding that you / the org. would refer to semi -quarter horse bars as having a 90° angle, quarter horse bars - 92 ° angle, full quarter - 93°..... obsiously I missread something. Oh, wait, actually you do not name the bars degrees any more on those page, but you did so in earlier versions. In your definition, what is the difference between quarter horse bars mule bars arabian bars when for each type you would specify bar angle and gullet width ( or hand hold width) separately - is it the amount of rock or bar length, something else? It ads to my confusion, that here http://www.saddlemakers.org/id193.htm#bar_angle you seem to prefer to move away from giving bar angle degrees and gullet measurements altogether. I do thank you up front for explaining it. Tosch

Please, add me. Thank you!

Call the Company (talk to the "CEO") to let them know, make a pic of the area and send it via email, send the tree back - maybe when talking to them they come up with a (different) solution that satisfies you. They should be glad you notify them so they have a chance to get it straight instead of you spreading the word that they sent you a tree with a problem.

Adam, when I first saw the saddle/horse combination I was afraid you have become unfaithful to you Icelandic Horse ! I like the saddle, and I like the seat profile. Many happy trails..

It did not let me copy/paste something .... If you really want to dig deep (!!!) into history do an internet search for SSHT-0039 Smithonian (=Man made mobile: early saddles of Western North America. You can download it as a pdf file. Might be a deeper look into history than most like. You also can do an internet search for The legacy of the Wyoming Stock Saddle which can be read online, I somehow downloaded it and have it as a word file. As the title implies it concentrates on the Wyoming Stock Saddle. Probably not quite what you was looking for, but that is all I can help you with.

From a saddle buyer (and user) perspective (for what it is worth): Over the years I have ended up with 3 different saddles on different tree configurations from 2 different makers. All saddles needed the ground seat modified for me to be comfortable A different saddle maker than the one building the saddle had to put in another layer of leather up into the cantle and forward up to the points of cantle or to the stirrup grove and crown the seat more. Things I could not have done. But with all three saddles I then had to modify the sweet spot in the ground seat (multiple times) by removing some leather here and adding some material there . Now my sweet spot on all saddles is more or less in the middle of the seat (front to back) something the late Verlane Desgrange advised me on some years before she past away. And I modified the seats that they all now have a nice leg channel. And for once I do not feel of being behind my horse's movements. One of the saddles came with an all leather ground seat, the two others with a metall strainer. When I watched the saddle makers modify the seat and when I did it myself, I could not see any difference in modifying a leather or metall strainer ground seat. I do like to look at nicely stamped and carved saddles like everyone else does....but the for me seat design is of outmost importance !!! OH sorry! I forgot to compliment you on your nice saddle (!) , was so concentrating on the seat discussion.

Patrice, To get an idea what a good used saddle is you might want to visit www.ranchworldads.com and go the saddle for sale side. Lots of good used saddles. Hope it helps. I wish you success on your journey.

I like the website. It is simple and clear. Were nice if the saddle tree pictures in the saddle tree gallery could be enlarged. I am using IE.

For years I had to fondly smile when I saw pics of your Icelandic horse with this type of saddle! What happend to you saddle tree template you showed some time back at "Dr. Deb's" site? Your Nikkel tree looks great! I wish you the best of luck with your project and will definitively follow it on here. Have a great new year! Tosch

I just found a twin to your saddle on ebay, after nine bids the current is $205.17...they list "Montana saddlery" as maker.....http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-LIGHTLY-USED-TOOLED-LEATHER-WADE-ROPING-ROPER-WESTERN-RANCH-HORSE-SADDLE-/231007076112?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c9183f10.

Oldtimer, A mule saddle tree has less rock because a mule's back is straighter/flatter than a horse's back. Tosch

Congrats on a job very well done!!!!!!

You are doing great. I enjoy following your thread. Tosch

Hi Lisa Since you have not gotten any response so far: try to get in touch with Detlef Wilhelm near Mainz, dw-saddlery.de , talk it over with him. Tell him "hi" from Thomas in Switzerland. Hope that helps Tosch

Just contact Simco.

gtwister09, Thank You !!! This link was what I was looking for and could not find again. Glad it is still there. Tosch

Oldtimer, there was a thread here at LW about this topic 1 or 2 or 3 years back. People explained where and why they used the reference points they did. If I remember correctly the lowest part of the front bar pad was said to be the best reference point since it was not modified by stock thickness, horn angle, etc. Also somewehere here http://www.saddlemakers.org/id190.htm was a great visusal and verbal comparison/explanation about the different reference points one can use. I just could not find the exact site or it has been taken off. I am waiting for the ASM to upload the still missing parts of this interesting website. It gives more that just an overview of factors related to saddle fit. Tosch

According to a German horse magazine from 2003, a German company by the name of "Witex"in 41334 Netettal-Kaldenkirchen (ZIP, town) , Südliche Wambacher Str. 4 (street), still manufactures these saddles.The email address is witex-gebr.winz@t-online.de . Their webside,however, does not indicate that they still build these saddles ( http://www.witex-geb...z.de/40958.html),.On the other hand,the website states they still build military riding saddles (Militär-Reitsättel). Acc. To the magazine article they still build the saddle for the few riding animals the German Army has. They also make their on own trees (at least for their trecking saddles). So why don't you contact them? Good luck . Tosch.