Denise

$35.00, $100.00, $225.00. 20 minutes to 3-4 hours. Sounds like lots of variety there, just like the whole area of saddle fitting...

Welcome Lokiprime. We have a good search function here on LW.net up at the top right of your screen. Try sporran and "possibles bag" and you will get some pretty good information from people who have made them. Lots of talented people here who are willing to share their knowledge!

I have heard Dawn dishwashing soap recommended in particular for a number of different things. Anyone know what is different in Dawn than other dishwashing soaps? Why is it the recommendation?

The difference I see between Fpotter and BondoBob is their market. Frank is building for guys who really USE their saddles on lots of different (yet usually similarly shaped) horses and have enough knowledge of its function from practical experience to know what works and therefore what they want for their area. Bob is building for individual horse owners who want a saddle for this horse and who often don't know a lot. This second one is the market the "saddle fitter" goes after too, and the unfortunate thing is that if they do a lousy job, the owner probably doesn't know it. They believe their saddle is OK on their horses because a "professional" told them it was. So much of the information I have seen on the net about saddle fit is absolute garbage, yet I assume this is what these "professional saddle fitters" are telling people too. That's why we like building for cowboys. They know what they like and they like what we make. Simple. We are just getting more inquiries lately from individual horse owners and people who build for them because we are on the net, so I am trying to learn more about that segment of the industry. Saddlebag, You are the first one here to answer the fees part of my question and I honestly don't know what a saddle fitting costs. Could you tell us the what an "average" saddle fitter charges in your area? How long are they out there? What do they look at and do during a call? It seems some people make their living doing this - or do they make the living selling the saddles and the fitting is just part of the package?

Our experience is different than that, Keith. Maybe it is because a lot of our trees go into rigs for working cowboys, but I would say a significant majority of our saddle making customers are riders with quite a few of them having cowboyed for a living at one time. Maybe they don't ride as much now as they used to (having to make a living in the saddle shop cuts into riding time) but most of them really know what they are doing when they are on top a horse. I still maintain that overall (there are exceptions of course) the best saddle makers are the ones whose backside knows the topside of a saddle very well. Using a saddle, particularly for long hours at a stretch, gives you time and incentive to understand how it functions best - top and bottom. I think the Colorado Saddle Makers Association is still pretty active, but I haven't heard that they tried to put together any accredition process for saddle makers. I wonder about the American Saddle Maker's Association. Other than stumbling onto their website on occasion I haven't heard a whole lot about them, especially lately. So it doesn't seem likely that there is any official accreditation or training for all these people running around "professionally fitting" western saddles. That is unfortunate in one way as it leaves the saddle buying public looking to find the occasional person who actually has something to offer them in way of information, but vulnerable to well intentioned people with minimal knowledge and lots of confidence, unscrupulous saddle sellers, and outright con artists. In another way it is quite fortunate, because if those of us who actually build these things can't agree on some basics in regard to how we want them to fit, then who will set up the accreditation process? The one who sets the standard, sets up their ideas as being correct. So far, we don't know who is right in the areas of discrepancy. That is why I am so excited about what the next 5 to 10 years will bring in the area of saddle fit. With the new technology available in terms of pressure pads, etc. we should be able to get some solid, scientific evidence on what works best. PS. David, how come you get a Master's in saddle fit and I just get an unknown something degree?

Interesting information coming out here. The Society of Master Saddlers in the UK seems to have the most comprehensive courses. To take their introductory course in the UK, you need to be part of their organization or be another "equine related professional", so at least you need some background with horses to start. But their introductory course is only 2 days long, and a vet or physiotherapist doesn't come in with much knowledge of how a saddle is made or works. I have problems seeing how in two days you can understand saddles, horse's anatomy and biomechanics and how they all relate. You could learn some "rules to follow" but to really understand the why - I kind of doubt it. At least it is a start. To be a Qualified Saddle Fitter you need at least 3 years experience in saddle fitting (as an unqualified saddle fitter??) and be a member of their society or "qualified saddler or higher". So at least you need to know something about saddles to be official qualified by the SMS. That course is only 4 days and one for assessment. Their US course is two days long and other than "being employed in the equestrian industry" there is no prerequisites for it, though "Preference will be given to those who own or are employed by a business which is retailing saddles manufactured in the UK." You don't get Qualified from that course. However the Overseas Retailers Course will Qualify you. It is four days plus a day of assessment and you need to be recommended by a member of the SMS and work in a business that sells at least 33% of UK made goods. Conflict of interest would be a concern here I would think. The NPTC out of the UK (I can't find on their site what that stands for!) uses the SMS system as part of their criteria to become a saddle maker, but it is not a stand alone qualification. They recommend 40 hours for that section but it includes fitting harnesses, bridles and other tack. All this is English only. The Australian one is more interesting. It is run by Horseland - a commercial enterprise. For $1200 dollars (discounted if you are a Horseland employee!) you can take a 2 day course (they say you need certain prerequisites but they are not given) - work for a year (unqualified?), then take an exam. You can take another 4 days (no cost mentioned) to get Level 2 qualification. What I find interesting is the quote I guess I always assumed that a person actually making a saddle (not just a production line employee, but a real saddle maker) would know more about how saddles work on horses than a tack shop employee with a two day course subsidized by the company they work for. Conflict of interest? I would think so. David, I think the SFT is given by the Saddlefit4life group that sells the Schleese saddles endorsed on the Australian site. Doesn't sound like there is anything offically set up in Europe. Is the American Saddle Makers Association is still going? What are their accreditation standards for a saddle fitter? Anyone know? So far it is the only thing around that might deal with western saddles. I found an interesting couple of quote from a link from the Australian site here. This is a woman in the US who is fully "Qualified" from the SMS in the UK. Hmmm...I am thinking Kevin's quote might sadly be the reality here in North America. Somebody, please refute this and tell me it ain't so!

Barra, I need to digest the links you put up. Some interesting statements there... Kevin, Could you/would you explain more? My perspective so far is that the whole idea of saddle fitters is much more from the eastern 1/2 of the continent and has been primarily from the English riding world. Do you know how the fitters in your area get their "accreditation"? Are there courses in North America like there is in Australia and the UK?

I have been hearing and reading more about "Professional Saddle Fitters" lately and I must admit that this is a new concept to me. My questions are: What or who qualifies someone to be a professional (or non-professional) saddle fitter? Is there any regulation of the industry anywhere? What type of training do they have? How much they charge? Do they sell saddles too or is that considered a conflict of interest? We have quite the selection of people from around the world here so I wonder if it is different over in Europe or Australia than here in North America.

PM Blake on this site. Good chance he knows where trees are available and the quality of each.

I'm actually at Valleyview, Alberta. Joe and his friend John Miller came by our place a couple years ago and John came back with this knife to show us las year.

Thanks, Sorethumbs. I did manage to get a copy off Amazon, but it took a while. The do come up and the prices vary - a LOT. I managed to snag one for $125.00 US, but with the trouble I had gettting it I wonder if it was a mistake of some kind. Most go for over $200 and I have seen over $500 - per volume. Lately there was one on the Canadian site for $175 Canadian, but it went pretty quick. I guess the key is to keep checking often.

Barra, I just checked and your dollar will be a whole lot closer to par up this side of the border, and if you are that close anyway... Calgary Stampede is early July if you are into rodeo stuff. Lots of good saddle shops, especially in southern Alberta. Some are members here. Stop in at Caledon Leather in Calgary and meet Ken and maybe Don. I'm sure you could spend a few hours there (pun intended ). Spring in Alberta is beautiful - green grass, blue skies, cattle and horses. Ignore the main route of Highway #2 (or the Queen E II as it has recently been renamed) and take #22, also called the Cowboy Trail. Good road. Starts not that far north of the border. View of the mountains all the way and right though cattle country. It runs close enough to Calgary you can duck off and visit there if you want or miss it if you want. And if you decide to go for a nice drive in the country, keep heading north. I know a tree shop that you could spend a couple days at and ask questions. It's only 7 hours north of Calgary by car. A bit longer if you take the bus...

Tom The board puts a limit to the size of the pictures in one post. You can either take the pictures smaller as you are doing, or use your picture program on your computer to compress them. If you search there are a number of threads on different computer programs that do this well. I won't try to explain because, well, I really wouldn't know what I was talking about. I just know where to click on my computer to do that. Hope this helps a little. Denise

Just checked out both schools and read their saddle fitting pages. Interesting reading - if you don't mind reading the same thing twice. Not completely identical, but a whole lot of it is. Wonder who wrote it first?

Hey Jim, have a GREAT birthday!

Jordan described his journey into the sandal making world here: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?s...&hl=sandals JustWakinUP made some flip flops for his daughter and showed us here: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?s...&hl=sandals (Those who can't do, point to threads of those who can...)

Happy Birthday from here too, Casey.

Noah, that would probably be your best bet. Them or ranchers closer to you that you know well enough they would call you when something is sick enough to be put down. Find out ahead of time where you can get something tanned. A taxidemist is a good suggestion. Then when you get the call, go out and be there either when they put it down or as soon as possible afterwards (blood pooling in the down side discolors the hide) and you skin it out and get it to the tanner.

Ray, have you watched cats 23 hours out of 24? But sorry for highjacking your thread. My sister had a little red Suzuki (sp?) soft top jeep looking thing (yup, really into vehicles here...) she called Eric the Red. It was RED all right!

You're welcome. We bit the bullet, expanded the shop and put in a Clear Vue Cyclone set up 1 1/2 years ago and have been very happy with the results. But then we do wood work full time. After 10 years of living in dust, this is such a relief. And the house is cleaner too because it doesn't come in on our clothes in the same way.

My first little car was Elsie - L. C. - Little Car. Pretty tame. But my animals name themselves. I walked out of the SPCA with a silver tabby kitten and by the time I hit the front sidewalk she had called herself Tabitha. I didn't want a cat named Tabitha, especially a tabby cat. Far too common. I tried and tried and tried to change it to something else. But Tabitha or Tab she remained for 15 1/2 years. Never Tabby though. I even got after my grandmother for calling her that once. Tab's companion cat was Finnigan Finbecker the First Nikkel. Long story there. He lived to be almost 17. They were the inside cats and thus "the kids". The outside cats are working cats and they are "the stepkids" - cheap food, no special care, etc. Right now we have Squint and Doodle. I think the coyotes got Dandy. We had Harriet - a spayed, female long haired cat. I changed the spelling to look better. Billie Bob was the best at mousing though. One place we lived had a litter whom we called Bubble, Squeak, Burp, Fib and Horatio. They were all black and white except Horatio who was grey and white with a kinked tail. A wilder cat around here had a litter. The ones I remember were Ping and Pong, Squirt and Smurf. Our canaries are Mello and Dee, the females, and Pavaroti, the male. Figaro died. And Taylor the Wonder Dog came with Tay as a name, but that is so close to "stay" that we changed it a bit. Rather boring name, but the best dog in the world, bar none. (Or at least that is how I see it!)

If you really want to learn more about dust control than you ever thought was possible, here is a site to start with. http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/DCBasics.cfm That is his "Basics" page and it goes from there, but there is some good information on the type of dust that is most dangerous and why most of the hobby type dust connection systems don't really work that well. Most of it applies to larger machines and more dust than sanding a holster would make, but the principles are the same.

Here's that old thread Ashley. Anything you want to change or add now? http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?s...ic=8468&hl=

29!! You're getting old! I moved up to 26 a year or two ago, after being 23 for quite a while. Maybe some day I'll make 29. In the meantime, hope you have a HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Tom, Right on this page there is an options button on the top right - below the my controls section. That's the one. If you don't see it, ask again!