Denise

Neat saddle, but just to let you know, the "Swade" saddle tree terminology isn't new to you and your trainer friend. It has been used by a saddle maker and tree maker in Canada for quite a few years now. https://www.stevemasonsaddles.com/saddles.htm Great minds think alike, but every tree maker does things differently so just to beware that some people may have another design in mind if they ask you for a Swade.

Dusty Smith at https://wyosaddlesandtrees.com uses the system, as do a lot of the hand makers. I know Bowden does but I don't know about any other production makers. It is getting more commonly recognized.

I've moved this to the Saddle ID section because it is more likely to be seen by the saddlemakers who may have answers to your question. All the best!

Thanks Randy. Our lives have changed but things are still going well. We are coming out with a video on western saddle fitting soon, so that has been a learning curve and a half, but it has been rather fun. Have you been able to get a hold of Troy? I talked with him about Howard Council and roping trees a few years back and he had a lot of knowledge about him.

Troy West would be a good one to ask.

Whether it hits the spine or not with the groundseat will depend on the shape of the equine and the "fit" of the tree - wider trees being more likely to hit if the animal is narrower. Contacting the top of the spine anywhere down it can cause major, major problems for your horse that may even in the long run result in their death in the worst case scenario. If you plan to use this saddle on those equines, don't use this tree. Get something that fits well. If you really want to use a ralide tree, try a narrower tree to see if it still hits. But honestly, there are lots of trees out there with far more surface area on their bars, that this is important in spreading out weight and decreasing pressure under the saddle.

Anyone here worked with Premier Elements 13 in video editing? There is no way in the program to copy a finished segment from one project to another and we aren't sure if there is an external clipboard that will work to take multiple segments at time so we can copy a number of finished segments. I know we can put things together after they are finished and exported but would like to work more with the segments in the program without doing that if possible. Anyone know how to do this? Thanks, Denise

That, and finding narrow enough horses that it will work well on them. Horses are a lot larger and broader than they were 100 years ago. Sort of like a lot of people...

Randy, At this stage we have no plans to pull down the website. We are also working on a video about how western saddles work on horses - fitting information. And who knows, maybe the info will be put into a book some day? We'll see...

Louellen's and Packers are both nicely shaped forks. They have side cut similar to a Modified Association but their tops slope off more than the Mod Assoc, the Packer sloping more than the Louellen (regardless of the spelling, which varies depending on the maker). A 12" wide fork is my personal preference as it gives enough swell but not a lot extra that can add weight, which you usually don't want for a woman's saddle which is basically a trail riding saddle. It is all personal preference anyway, and there's mine!

I moved your topic to the saddle ID, restoration and repair forum. More likely to get answers here.

It's moved! Have fun with your project!

Cheryl, I have combined all your separate threads on this one subject into one post, as we usually do with duplicate posts on this forum. I have left it in the Leatherwork Conversation forum as that is where it has garnered the most interest. If you wish me to move it into another forum, please let me know. Additional posts regarding this topic can be added to this thread. All the best in getting to Sheridan.

This is a good place to post, but there is a saddle section where it would more likely be noticed by people with saddle interests. Try the Resources section there.

Both these books have been commonly read by saddle makers. The Beaties book was actually recommended reading in a saddle making course here in Alberta a few years ago. I've read it, though I'm not a saddle maker. I got a copy through inter-library loan, which is a really good option prior to buying. Some good information in it. It has been a very influential book in the saddle making world, I think. The They Saddled the West book is decent history on saddles in North America. We eventually splurged on a copy off Amazon to get one for ourselves. I think we paid more than the $84 they are asking. Nice to have in the library of someone serious about learning about saddles and their history.

We have paid between $50 and $80 to our local butcher for a raw hide straight off the animal, and those are big cow or bull hides. No profit in hides. They are strictly a by-product.

I have read a bunch about Corriente. The bottom line seems to be that it is a decent saddle for it's price ($700 or so). However, it seems that while some are good, some are so-so and some are bad and sore horses. I read one person saying to get a "custom" Corriente, not an off the rack one, and your chances of getting a bad one were lower. No personal experience here - just passing on what I have read.

Shortening the bars may sound like a good thing, but remember that it is taking surface area off your horse so the pressure under any one area will be greater. Some people want short bars because they believe the propaganda that you can't have anything past T18, and that just isn't true. No research says this (though people do) and pretty much every western saddle out there goes past there and all our horses aren't crippled. If the horse is really short backed, then yes, you don't want the bars too long. There are a number of things that can be done with angles on forks and cantles that can be done to get enough room for the rider while making a shorter bar, yet keeping the rider centered on the bar. Just cutting off the back of the bar will end up with the rider's weight pressing down more toward the back of the saddle, and thinking about what happens when you step on the end of a board versus the center tells you how that may work on the horse. (The same thing happens when the cantle is just slid back on a bar so there isn't much bar left behind it.) Moving the fork forward on the bars is the last trick in the book to get a large rider on a small horse. It depends on how it is down, but it is possible to keep the fit the same and do this. But different makers have different amount of bar out the front of their forks anyway. Some seem to have excessively long bar tips to my eye, but that is the way they build them. If you are going to go dubbing off the bars, make sure you add enough relief to the bar tips. Don't just cut them off and leave them with the same shape on the bottom. You need to give them a bit of curve that last inch or so. Bar tips digging in are a great way to harm the horse.

Is the cantle intact? Looks like an old high back cantle that may have been broken?

David, If you go to the Canada post website here: http://www.canadapost.ca/cpotools/apps/far/business/findARate?execution=e1s2 you can check out what options you have for what countries. We only ship larger boxes, so can't tell you what the small packet rate is or any of those options. We used to be able to ship to Europe Expedited but quit that a few years ago so the only option via Canada Post is often Xpresspost or even Priority. A few countries still have ground (water) and the one customer that wanted us to ship it that way and wait 6-8 weeks had it arrive in 2. Lots cheaper but not recommended as you can't track that way while you can the others. If you are worried about brokerage, etc. don't ship a courier company from Canada to the US. They will nail the customer with fees. Our saddle trees are $600 and up. No duties, etc. at the other end in the US at all. Europe, of course, has them. Maximum insurance on parcels to the US or Internationally is $1000.00, though you have to declare total value even if it is over that. I know the USPS won't insure for even that much. That covers loss only, not damage, I think. I wouldn't recommend splitting into smaller parcels unless you need to insure for full value and it is over $1000. The cost of shipping two small parcels outweighs the cost of one larger one in most cases. Shipping Canada Post is a lot more expensive than USPS, but when you are 10 hours from the border, that's what you do. Never shipped via USPS, so can't give you any more info that way. Just know that shipping couriers is not the way to go across borders...

We use the post office, both going to the US and the Europe. No extra fees on the US end. There are taxes in Europe, but they would have them no matter how the package was sent. We insure for full price and have never had one lost yet, though a couple have taken a while to get where they were going. Spain takes a LONG time to get through customs - a few weeks to a month is their norm. Shipping to Europe is expensive as Xpresspost is pretty much the only option. When you get to places like Australia and South Africa, the post office only offers Priority. That is prohibitive. But we send large boxes that get charged on volume - 14 kg and 19.5 kg. Smaller packages it may still be worth it.

Looks like it might be a Ralide tree? If so, you can probably get an identical replacement if you can figure out the number. That said, it won't be a high quality saddle when you are done with it, even with a new tree, so you need to make your decision based on that.

In Canada, we have done away with pennies. A penny cost more than a penny to produce so the government called it quits on them. But things are still priced at 9.99. Then they round up or down to the nearest nickel - if you are using cash. If you are using credit or debit, it goes on as 9.99. The mental game continues...

Aurelie, Glad you put "Wade" in quotation marks... Neat work. Original patterning. Keep at it!!

Make it $59.98. That way, being as don't have pennies up here any more, you don't have to deal with change, but people still get the psychological boost from getting a "cheaper" product. I think it does work. When we go by gas stations and the price is $129.9 a litre, we say "it's $1.29" rather than "it's $1.30". So I think it works - a little anyway...