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@chuck123wapati, the article you have given shows the effects of fats soon after tanning, not the effects of long-term use of it by the users of that leather. The article also talks about how synthetic oils have superseded natural ones because of oxidative issues. But it does not say exactly which fats and oils and what the effects are over a long time, Although it does say the actual type oil does not matter. It matters to us though. All of us here are talking from personal experience or trying to get personal experience and are curious to know, once and for all, about the true ill-effects or advantages, or both, of oils commonly used by ordinary leatherworkers. If you do have actual knowledge it would be nice to hear about it, like so many others have so beautifully and positively contributed to this thread.

@kgg and better smelling too.

The deterioration of leather and the thread happens over time. I I will apply the oils on the leathers and keep them somewhere safe, and check through the months, with periodic updates if there is damage. @fredk what do you think? Incidentally, does anyone have natural fibre threads that have deteriorated without use? I know my regular stitching thread does so, and I have no reason to expect otherwise from thread used for leatherwork.

@ScottWolf that is exactly the point @fredk made earlier, that people blindly repeat what they have heard, not necessarily from their own experience. If you wants to hear the actual voice of experience, you need to have worked with leather for years and remember what was used, several decades later, to know what was or was not detrimental to it, and there are so many other factors that can damage the leather as well. I, for one, am too new to leatherwork and will be long dead and gone before many decades have gone by. Ergo my comment about instructions in my will. It is not a matter of refusing to acknowledge information as much as the widely present views of today - " I saw it online, so many people online said it, so it must be true. Even if you say different, so many online say so, so I believe them'. About oils turning rancid, it is the smell or texture that is unpleasant most often. Besides I do not know what the products of those oxidative processes are and they may affect the leather, or not. Additives will retard or prevent the oxidation of oils but then, you have to have the correct proportions of the additives for preservation, else it is pointless. That becomes another chemistry experiment. I should think anything used in excess would cause some issue or the other, excessive softness or even remaining on the surface causing greasiness. Like you said, most commercial products, if you read the MSDS, contain many of these oils and waxes . I have been reading them up when researching leather conditioner recipes. It is a little amusing when people refuse to use neatsfoot oil or mineral oil or petroleum products and then swear by products with these very ingredients. One thing I have noticed is, when people say that leather deteriorated, it is often the threads which rotted away. Natural fibres deteriorate faster than leather, naturally. That happens even in ordinary cotton clothes with cotton or linen thread. Cotton and linen themselves deteriorate over time. I wear a lot of cotton and some of my favorites are not usable 20 years later. That is all the time it it takes. No one uses any oils on ordinary clothes! Leather itself falls apart sometimes but I suspect that is because of excessive oils or the way it is used. Not knowing what causes the damage, the easiest to blame is the oils used. Commercial companies with ulterior motives push this further and a myth is born. To debunk this, our experiments with leather might help just a little. Putting in a few stitches with cotton and synthetic threads is a good idea. @kgg that is good information about jojoba oil. It is said to have a composition similar to skin oils. You are talking from personal experience. @Burkhardt which vegetable oil do you use? I hope others join @fredk and me in this experiment, using oils and scraps they have at hand. About mice. Please don't remind me. My cat caught one and placed it behind me on the sofa. It fell behind the cushions and I found it a while later while cleaning. It has nearly petrified within a few months. Evidently in that place it was deprived of air. Not a pleasant experience. Mice will eat anything and are smart too, and cute. I always hear people squealing about their cuteness - does not deter from their unpleasant pee and stealing and chewing habits! I believe the smell of cloves deters them.. No idea if that is true and I do not I want my leathers to smell of it.

@fredk unfortunately, you are right about the reasons for research. About the olive oil, exactly. Exposure to air.. and leather is not going to be kept air-tight! SO great. I will try as well. I have plenty of scraps I can use. I have coconut oil, both fractionated and cold pressed. I know the cold pressed goes rancid fast if exposed to air. So will not use that. I know how it smells. YUCK! Will check the fractionated. Use it on veg tanned leather and keep it outside, in a warm place for a week to 10 days, reapplying if it gets too dry. Let's see what happens. Cold pressed coconut oil gets smelly in a few hours. I suspect this will too. People use fractionated coconut oil in their hair as an after wash conditioner - you can smell it from a distance.

@dikman exactly what I think too. Companies will go for what is cheapest. And Mineral oil is obtained fossil fuel, therefore organic or 'natural'. That is what those companies probably mean. And fool a the majority of their consumers. @fredk WOW! Your Austin will be a 100 soon! Pics please, if possible of this car? Back to topic, You are perfectly right. Tanneries and most everyone else will parrot what is online. And from your experience, engine oil does not damage leather. So mineral oil should be fine too. @TomE's and @sheathmaker's experiences show that neatsfoot oil, used judiciously, is also good for leather and not does not damage it. SO mineral oil and neatsfoot oil are good possibilities for use in conditioners. Both evidently do not do any damage. I wonder if there are any labs doing some sort of research work on the effects of other oils on leather. Vegetable oils, I am a little concerned about. By their very nature, they are not meant to have a long life or survive differences in temperature; how long do coconuts or avocadoes or olives survive anyway? In contrast, cattle have longer lives and are warm-bodied. I'm probably talking through my hat though. I feel there will be someone or the other telling me so, usually kindly. You have a good idea @fredk Maybe as many people as possible could talk about their experiences here, rather than hearsay off the internet, about the effects of different oils on leathers, in different conditions. A repository, so to speak.

@TomE, @sheathmaker I like neatsfoot oil too and use it all the time. After all, it has stood the test of time. The smell however, is sometimes a bit unpleasant. It also darkens leather and I want to make a conditioner that will not do so. Ergo, the questions about mineral oil.

@Gump, Thank you. I will look for it.

@ScottWolf I have discovered that mineral oil makes leather shine. I was not sure of the sealing properties but that becomes icing on the cake as we use it last when getting a shine anyway. @fredk Could motor oil have other additives perhaps that cause the damage? @Wepster PB Blaster will surely have other additives. Could they play a role in the damage? As @Klara says, the composition could make a difference. @TomE, @fredk - difference between living skin and preserved skin - therefore different requirements in care. Of course. But I suspect mineral oil is relatively inert on skin and only prevents surface dehydration. But it might react with chemicals in leather which has after all undergone chemical modifications. There are supporters and nay-sayers for every single oil online, from neatsfoot oil to mink oil, to vegetable oils. I suspect leather deteriorating is a result of several factors including but not limited to the oils used. I guess it is a matter of not just what but how much, like your example of neatsfoot oil @TomE @Wepster I believe there is a tannery around here, if I remember right, of exotic leathers. But leather anyway. I will inquire with them.. Put it up here as well, if I learn anything. Thank you everybody for all this information. I am going ahead with making a conditioner with mineral oil - what I have is food grade. If the leather deteriorates over time, I will leave instructions in my will for that information to be put up here.

Why do so many people say mineral oil is bad for leather? Online, there are so many sites, none of which are actual chemists or experts, who go on about how bad mineral oil is for leather. But if mineral oil is fine for baby skin, surely it is good for leather as well. Johnson's baby oil is just perfumed mineral oil and has been used for decades.. Then people say 'petrolatum ( petroleum jelly) and petroleum products are bad for leather - we would not apply it on our skin and should not on leather. Hmm. My mother used pure petroleum jelly (Vaseline) on her skin nightly as a young girl and had skin that looked barely 45 when she was 80. The beautiful skin is genetic; the lack of damage due to petroleum jelly evident. So again a myth. How and why is it bad? Does anyone actually have an idea or scientific evidence or is it just a lot of hearsay... most started by companies selling leather care products? I searched online but all I see is more and more of the same - sites which sell leather and leather-care products talking about how everything but their product is bad for leather and women prettily going on about their leather care cream and paste recipes, usually with oils which will surely go rancid soon enough. It is like people saying that the Romans used olive oil so it is wonderful for leather - maybe, maybe not, maybe the Romans had nothing else. and knew little more. I rather hold judgment about mineral oil until I find some scientific evidence about why it is bad, if it is bad. Has anyone seen any such information? or has information to the contrary?

@Klara yes I plan to do that. Recently I have been working with chrome-tanned leathers. But once I start on Veg tanned again, I will experiment. I usually get all my chrome-tanned leathers from Springfield or Leather Guy but veg-tanned is from Tandy and not very good. Maybe that is why I did not get a good result. Will get some from one of the other stores now. I want to try Korba from Buckle Guy. I ordered their samples and really liked that leather.

@Klara, thank you for showing me what you made. I tried on scrap leather as well and because it seeped, I did not use it on my final piece. A small knife sheath for my use but perfect for learning. I wish I could use vinageroon on edges, since that is one dye, if you call it that, that does not transfer or crack.

@Eirewolf, if you have a Tandy close by you could get leather acrylic paints. You might get them in a Hobby Lobby as well. They work for edges and actual edge paints seem to be the same, only thicker. @Klara You use vinegaroon for edges? How do you do that? I tried it on a dark brown scrap and it seeped inside to form an uneven edge.

Stanley knife or for most leathers, round knife for curves and exacto knife for finer cuts. This is as a newbie with less than 1 year's experience. I also sometimes use a rotary knife but feel that I cannot get a cut exactly where I like with it. So I use it for more general cutting. The thickest leather I have cut to date is about 7-8oz. For thinner leathers, scissors work well for me.

@Handstitched .

@chrisash, I know. It is always 'keeping up with the Jones'. Silly really. And sure, most are well made, machine made, remember, but still plasticky and give such a skewed view of what leather is, to the general public. If those materials use so much plastic, might as well call them 'vegan' leathers and use actual vegan leathers, which are just synthetic material anyway, what we used to call Rexene. Just because the companies selling those leathers say there is good leather under there somewhere, can one trust them? My issue is, there are plenty of handmade leather items out there that are very well made as well. Go to any thrift store or consignment store and you will find plenty. The more expensive ones are the branded ones of course, but check in the cheaper sections and you find beautifully made, good leather items - bags, belts, even some footwear - going for a song because they do not have brand names attached. Lovely leather, great workmanship but kept alongside plain, cheap plastics, not even the reasonably well made 'vegan' leather ones. That is what really gets to me. Beautiful work by craftsmen which are ignored and often, not even recognized. See, pay less for handmade items than for those branded items I can understand, not even recognizing them as something good but equating them to cheap, plastic, is bothersome to me.

The 'high end' things.. like handbags are just as bad. The bags feel so plasticky and have logo prints on them, so many of them. And colors and patterns which also feel plasticky. Yet many say they are leather. What type of leather, the quality is anybody's guess. Yet they charge thousands for them. I understand all that was said about the expenses involved in producing them in the West and while there are some brands, whose prices are high but reasonable, others are not. No bag is worth the thousands they charge. Yet, people pay for the brand and then, most often, they advertise that brand for free, with the logo all over that bag! LOL. Smart marketing on the part of those companies I must say. The companies get paid for the bags and get free advertising as well. Saffiano, the very popular leather used in high end goods is an example of the plasticky feel of the leathers. I got some and am wondering what to do with it.

@MagiKelly This is a wonderful tutorial that you have put up. Thank you. A great many people evidently feel the same way as I do. It is still pinned in "How do I do That?" The first pin, in fact.

My condolences on your loss. The pen-holder was lovingly made and so well appreciated and used. How wonderful!

Whenever this happens, I just google the conversion of mm to inches or vice versa and save the values. Only trouble arises when they just give a number from 1-5 for example. Yesterday hubby very sweetly sat and carefully measured all my punches and made a note for me, with appropriate punches on a piece of leather, so I know the size in different ways (number, mm., inches ). That is an option.

@DwightT, I'm afraid I have to disagree. We are techies too, for over 4 decades, continuously from development to QA. So have some knowledge. Several people I know agree with me as well, that this is possible and several have experienced it. Personal experience trumps theory, I believe! Sorry no offense intended but so many here say that people tell them it is not possible while we know it is and and have experienced it! I did not bother to try to get my printer repaired because it was an old one but if I had, I would have probably been told the same thing that @fredk was told, that it is possible and the same action would have been taken, of uninstalling and re-installing the printer drivers, after a complete, in-depth virus check. FYI for all, pdf files are considered to be some of the most vulnerable for attaching hidden malware. The creator of the pdf document might not even intend to infect other computers but if the sender's computer is compromised in any way, then unbeknownst to the sender, malware could get attached and sent. There are so many ways to infect and spread viruses and new ones are coming up each day. People saying it is not possible is the same as scientists saying in 2007 that "sea levels will not go up more than 1 inch by 2050 and there is no real danger due to global warming until at least the late part of this century!!" @DwightT, I respect your experience but remember, there are plenty of printer companies and thousands of hackers with the singular aim of bypassing security, many of them school children who want to be 'discovered'. Personal experience from a boy in my daughter's school. As far as I am concerned, I have always been and always will be wary of any downloads, even from reputable sites. Better safe than sorry.

Weaver Leather Supply has a lot of information on its site. Check this from them: The Leather Element: Thread, Needles & Chisels - YouTube

All of these you will get in a kit on Amazon. Amazon has a large selection to choose from. As I mentioned above, I started leatherwork in Jan.,2023 with an Amazon kit and do not regret it a bit. I got all the basics for a song and am building up a collection of good instruments as needed. Until then, the items from the kit worked fine. I still use most of them. A Stanley knife works for cutting most leathers. The stitching chisels I received in my kit are fine and I still use them. Not even needed to sharpen the as yet. Ditto the awl. You can use a woodworking one at a pinch. Edge beveler was not too sharp but I sharpened it. You can get thin whetstones in Amazon for a song. Tokonole is very useful; glue - I use gorilla glue and it works fine for me. Edge paint I only started using recently - I used plain dye earlier. It was fine but if you want to use those high-end leathers, you will need to practice with edge paint - it is not as easy as it looks. All the videos on YouTube use thick leather with straight edges. Very few bags have only straight edges or are so thick! At least in my experience! They would be so heavy if very thick! Besides, it takes practice to cut smooth edges that will paint or burnish well. I started with acrylic leather paint to learn and then bought the actual leather edge paints. For burnishing, I discovered that more than a wooden burnisher, a piece from an old, cut up pair of jeans works very well, in fact works best. It is khaki in color so no risk at all of color transfer. My kit included needles and thread as well which were fine for practice and learning. I bought a skiving knife off Amazon and had it sharpened with a man who sharpens it here for a couple of dollars, I kid you not! He is very good and that knife is very sharp indeed. X-acto knives also work very well for a good amount of the cutting and sharp kitchen scissors of course! And lighter to burn the thread once you start stitching. You can improvise a stitching pony. Plenty of YouTube videos to show that. But that is needed, otherwid=se stitching leather can become tedious. It is not very expensive to buy though. I would suggest buying plain leather, the least expensive, to practice cutting, stitching etc. until you gain some confidence. I saw those teaching videos too and it is not as easy as it looks! It takes ages to get satisfactory results and for high end items for loved ones, you will want that perfection even more. I practiced by making sheaths for every sharp instrument in the house! The type of leather does not matter much as long as it is veg-tanned. About leather, many stores have sales, either ongoing or at specific times each month when you can get good leather for very reasonable rates. They become difficult to resist sometimes. That's all I can think of to add from my recent newbie experience.

@AlZilla me too! It got me the basic things like mats, needles, etc. for a very reasonable price, that I still use. Other things I bought over time as I realized I needed them. @DesertLeather, that is an option for at least the basic items.

Thank you. I will check there.