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@Tugadude Yes I see. Everything ready and, like I mentioned to @fredk I feel its like cheating when everything is cut and punched and ready to sew. Finally, nothing quire like a pattern, piece of leather, some cutting tools and chisels to work with.

@fredk I really put my foot in my mouth, didn't I? I meant when I said that the holes are hidden, about the lovely work on this site, from experienced leathercraftsmen who know how to select the correct thread and of course the holes are hidden. Something a newbie aspires for. You have explained it here so clearly. Should have put it all into words but then I thought, too long, so did not. And I agree about ready-made kits. Have never tried them though - it feels like cheating when everything is provided ready cut and punched. I see that the holes remain.

I agree Some of the patterns we get online are the same, but I use a diamond chisel instead of the punch recommended.

I was not very clear in my earlier post and if I mislead in any way, I apologize. I agree. Slanted holes work the best. They look beautiful from both sides and the narrow cut keeps the thread more snugly than diamond cuts, although the leather does close around the thread in the latter as well. The pre-cut round holes, the worst. I learnt subsequently that with round holes, slanted stitches are possible with casting - as you @Tugadudesaid the Nigel Armitage video. I have seen all the tutorials here, thank you to all the experienced people here who have guided so well about that - and I have learnt one thing. It is the technique which finally matters. Technique of saddle-stitching. Once experienced, as I see with all the experienced leatherworkers here, the type of holes do not matter AS much. They know the way to stitch, cast or not and so on and make beautiful items That is what I meant when I said the type of holes do not matter - not to disparage but to say that there are ways to get around whatever the shape and direction of the shape of the holes, once saddle-stitching is understood - should have explained that way. About Awls. I thought sharpening them was a difficult matter too, until I read a thread here which explained exactly how to do it. Was it you who explained @Tugadudeor someone else? I'm sorry I do not remember but It was so clearly explained, as you have done here too. And finally about the price. In many threads, newbies are advised by some, not all, to buy either 'the best money can buy' or ' the best affordable' or specific expensive brands. That is good advise but sometimes, it is a bit premature. This was mainly my point in the earlier post. At the start, I too was obsessed with chisels which is why I commented. I wanted 'good' french chisels and as is my habit, explored brands and was undecided, until Uttam praised my work once and, looking at it with new eyes, I realized I was getting the results I wanted with my inexpensive, diamond chisels, easily at that. That is why I spoke up about not needing expensive chisels. One thing; when I said 'kit' I did not mean ready made kits of cut leather with a few tools, to just stitch together to make purses etc. I meant the leatherwork kit which only contains all the tools for leatherworking. If you enter the words' leatherworking kit' you find dozens on Amazon.

As a newbie, for whom everything is still a learning experience I would like to put in a few words. However the holes are made, pricking irons and awls, diamond chisels, etc. they are finally hidden by the thread. So it matters not a whit whether the holes are slits, angled diamond shaped holes or tunnels, for all I know. As long as the stitching is good, the holes are completely hidden. Coming to how the holes are made; yes pricking irons and awls are the traditional way but now, there are diamond chisels available to make this easier. So no reason not to use them, especially for us newbies because learning saddle stitching faster means that we can get onto projects we can be proud of instead of feeling frustrated because we could not stitch well. As a newbie, I am relieved that we have diamond chisels; I tried and could not do the pricking iron and awl method - awful lines. Maybe I will learn one day but until then, diamond chisels work well. Coming to the brand to use. Yes the expensive ones would be wonderful to have but cheaper ones work well too. When newbies have so many things to buy, expensive chisels are not needed, in my opinion. I know because mine are cheap ones off Amazon and they work fine, not just adequate, fine. I use up to 6-7 oz leather and even through my newbie mistakes when I forgot a board and the tines went blunt, a little sharpening was all that was needed. So when I see newbies being advised to buy 'the best they can afford' or expensive brands, may I gently remind that with so much to buy, that is not necessary to start with or even later if not needed? When on a limited budget, it makes sense to choose where to economize. I was clueless when I bought an Amazon leathercraft kit but it was the best thing I did. I received everything I need, from a cutting mat to 2 other boards for pounding and for use under chisels, from snaps to rivets, to thread to knives, bevelers and I don't remember what else. All i needed to buy was a set of diamond chisels ($10 on Amazon) and I was set. So I got everything needed for basic leatherwork for about $100.00. Not the best brands, naturally but they all work fine. Since then, I have bought the same brand chisels, 3mm and 5mm. Inexpensive and effective. Will I buy Kevin Lee ones some day? Maybe. Maybe not. They are like designer handbags to me. Ordinary inexpensive bags carry my things as well, so why spend on designer ones? Not like shoes, where cheap ones pinch. So that is the difference. There are many inexpensive brands of chisels which are fine. Whether chisels, or pricking irons or awls. Maybe they should be considered as well. Being able to afford does not mean spending blindly, in my opinion. Just my two bits of what I learnt as a newbie. Hope I did not offend with anything I said here.

@bruce johnsonThank you for that detailed guidance. When I received the Rose knife, I knew I was in for a lot of work. Last night, I sharpened another, unbranded knife.. It got sharp fast, within a short time. I do not have machines but I do go through the different grits or whatever they are called, on the water stones. On the unbranded knife, it took me about 15 minutes and it is very sharp now. Did twice the time on the Rose knife, remembering that in this site, people always said what you have confirmed, that Rose knives have some of the hardest metal and are difficult to get sharp. My knife just yawned and went back to sleep. Reading what you have explained above, I realize I am in for a long series of long sessions of sharpening. Since I do not have an electric grinder or a belt system, it will all be by hand. I will work on it, through the weeks and months. I will reach there one day. I will check with the magnification; I did it once to check for damage and it is without cracks as of now. I will continue to check, at each sharpening session. The knife already has a wide bevel. it is not 1 inch but it is a small knife. So I think a 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch should do? I will remember to keep the bevel that wide before I sharpen the edge. I have a set of rouges, including the black one. Not needed them for the other knives but will break them out for the Rose. I will apply them onto a set of strops. Old leather belts on Cardboard - keep them ready for whenever I need it. As usual, a printout of all these details and information so that I remember at the right time. And I can understand the pleasure of finding good knives unexpectedly. Last week, at a flea market, I found an old Bissonnette beveler, for a dollar. Sharpened it, following Stohlman's instructions in his book. A pleasure to use now. Somehow, I find myself using such finds more than I use new instruments. Found a Henckel round knife yesterday as well. The seller did not have much idea of the value, but it looks clean and with very little tarnish or rust. Well cared for. Will follow same instructions for sharpening that one too. Stopping looking at knives now though, else I spend more time making sheaths and sharpening knives than in doing other leatherwork!

Okay. Thank you.

I'm sorry. I know I sound dumb, but when do I use the steel? Each time before and after use like the strop?

@doubleh luckily since my knife does not seem to be damaged, I think I will not need a file or machine. But I will remember, if I ever end up with a damaged blade. I save all the information I collect here in a word document for reference. Very helpful. Besides, I do not want to use a machine or file on my knives. I haven't used and don't have either, so no experience either. @chuck123wapati I don't plan to use a file or machine on my blade. I have a set of water stones and will use that. The set came with a piece to flatten the stones as they wear down, so that is covered. I made a strop with an old leather belt stuck to thick cardboard onto which I rubbed green rouge thickly. I anyway strop my knives on it before and after use each time - learnt that from this site. You mention "you don't need anything for now on your blade except a steel , a strop or.." What steel would that be?

Oh. Then it is a good thing my knife is not damaged anywhere. I examined it minutely under a magnifying glass.

Yes. I think so too.

@doubleh luckily, the color has not changed at all. So it seems fine. That is a relief! If the temper is compromised on a knife, can it maybe be ground out until a section with the temper undamaged is reached? Is it possible? Would be very difficult to do, though.

@chuck123wapati, that is good to hear. The edge is not discolored or different colors. It looks no different from when I sharpen my other knives by hand, only very uniform all around. It is sharp and cuts okay. The seller had said it needed further sharpening. So it appears he just sharpened it a bit, not sufficient to do any lasting damage. Yes I will sharpen it by hand. I believe, from reading other threads here, that Rose knives are very hard steel and take longer to sharpen but I have no issue with that. It will be worth it. Thank you for putting my mind at rest.

Last week, my husband bought me a good rose knife. Online. It was not sharpened in the photographs. The well-meaning but clueless seller sharpened it by machine before sending it to me. Can see the sharpening marks which are different from those when sharpened by hand. Will the knife have been irreversibly damaged? Can I do anything to rescue it? I get my kitchen knives sharpened by a gentleman who does that, at a local flea market. He insists sharpening knives on that electric circular stone, I do not know what it is called, will not damage the temper. From what I read everywhere else, it does. My kitchen knives are ordinary ones and easily replaceable. My leather knives, not so much.

I use these as well. They work fine. They are sharp and have not yet bent, even when punching leather up to 6-7 oz. I have not tried with thicker leather. And at the low price, replacement does not hurt, if they do bend or break.

You have put everything together very beautifully. One would never know you picked the images off Google.

That is very beautiful. Did you create the design yourself?

You might get better results if you search Google for "Asian water buffalo". Japanese water buffalo are also called Asian water buffalo.

Mine is a bit long too. Sorry, in advance, for the length and for being so passionate about it.. @tugadude, been in business, set up a business for someone else, got it into the black within a year (my 75 year old CPA could hardly believe it) and then left - owner was a greedy, corrupt person and I refused to do anything even a little shady. So yes. Been there, done that, in the tech world, in the Bay area. Just don't talk about it. That is all. It does not define me as a person. Yes, setting up a business is very difficult. Yes, there are clueless people in business. No idea why people starting businesses don't go to their local SBA chapters for some guidance. They are very helpful and informative. Anyway, all that you say is true but that still does not excuse substandard work. Whatever the hurdles in business and they seem endless sometimes, if I had not provided good service I would not have had loyal clients. It is similar in any business. In the leather business the only thing is, people might not buy as many leather items like, for example, clothes, and therefore there is less risk in selling goods that are not very well done. And clothes? People know quality. They go to a Walmart for inexpensive clothes, Macy's for a little better and the high end stores for expensive or maybe the consignment stores too. So people know clothes - good and bad. The same with footwear. Why not leather then? So while I agree with Chuck that companies can charge whatever they can get for their goods, why are the general public not being made aware of the great leatherwork being done? Why are companies producing substandard work almost hijacking the industry? We see not very well made items being sold at exorbitant prices everywhere. People are willing to pay? good for them. But what happens to the leather industry and the good leather craftsmen and the beautiful work that they produce? One other issue is that with not well made products selling for so much, people might be reluctant to even look at better produced items, believing them to be out of reach. So these items are giving a false impression of that as well. It all comes down to informing the public. I know I keep on about it - my hobbyhorse - but I really feel strongly about this when I see the beautiful work done by so many here and what I have had available through the years. I examine some of the leather I bought through the years and... they are okay. Not great. If we all cheer those who charge exorbitantly for not very good stuff, that is all that is finally going to remain. And future generations will look at old items made by an extinct generation of craftsmen and wonder at the talent. Okay that sounds morbid and is improbable..at least I hope so. I know I am very new to this craft and will never be one of those who does stunning leatherwork. But I can appreciate it when I see it and I see so much here, and there is so much more out there that I do not get to see. I feel really sad about the cheap stuff getting so much exposure when there are such talented craftsmen who don't get that. Those who produce such gorgeous leatherwork are artists and should be valued, their art valued. Not allowed to get hidden under the flood of indifferent, mass produced items. Better stop now.

@Klara, I agree about belts. Simple belts are as nice as elaborate ones. But the prices are a bit much on that site, don't you think? Websites can be created and maintained without much expense. See, WordPress and AEM are two of several Content Management Systems which people can use to build and maintain their own dynamic websites, including payment processing, that takes away the need for IT departments or consultants to maintain content on a website. It is a simple process where one is guided every step of the way. It can all be set up at a very reasonable cost, less than $500.00, and the only thing to maintain is the license. And these websites can be viewed on any browser, any operating system, and on any screen size. In fact, many websites that we see online are built using WordPress. If you look at the bottom of the screen, that appears in small print. And @ToddW, I completely agree. Mexico and other countries do produce good quality leatherwork as well as not such good work. That happens everywhere. Unfortunately, the not-so-good work is cheaper and sells the most. In the process, people have little chance of knowing what good quality is. Another drawback is that those countries get a reputation of producing substandard work, which is sad for the leatherworkers there who do produce good quality work. The other issue is, leatherwork has very low bars for entering the field. So any and everyone thinks they can get in and get by with producing the type of work we see out there, selling on the cheap. So good quality leatherwork gets pushed to the side more and more.

Two things: Reviews are always to be taken with a pinch of salt. Myriad ways to fake them. Secondly, about people liking these goods - when they have no idea what good quality is, how will they know they are getting substandard quality? That they like these goods itself shows they are completely clueless. No one here commented on the quality of the leather; it is the workmanship that is shoddy. and there is no denying that. Poorly made edges for example, will remain so - being stitched, they might not come apart for a few years but will continue to appear shoddy, to those in the know. Large stitching holes that remain obviously open will gather dirt, but then, the user will probably think it is natural 'aging' of the leather. There is no getting around the fact that the items are poorly made. The approval of an ignorant public is just fooling them, don't you think? That they continue to fool people in no way means they sell quality products; it just means they have lucked onto a product that people know very little about and can get by with a minimum of effort and poor quality.

There is really no excuse for substandard products. Whatever the business expenses. Hobbyists do not live on free air and water. We have had professional lives too and many are aware of the expenses involved in starting and running a business and gaining success. But any business that spends so much on the bells and whistles that it cannot afford to spend on providing quality products has a bad business model. If this site is successful, it is for a different reason. It is because people who buy these items are unaware that the goods are substandard. They have no standard to compare them with. How will they know what is good and what is not? There are leatherworkers making beautiful items and those are worth paying for. Substandard things like this are not. Those items from Mexico and the far east? They cost less and are substandard. They cost what they are worth. Comparison shopping on Amazon? Yes we all do that. But that is not where one goes to get good quality in anything. And many other sites are similar to this one. Impressive shells, quality often missing. The main issue is clearly that most people have no idea at all about how to recognize quality leather goods. Until that changes - no idea how - sites like these will sell such items at exorbitant rates, and there is nothing we can do about it.

Love the Pinocchio idea and your Pinocchio face is really nice.

Badly made, I agree. Not worth a 10th of the price they charge. @RockyAussie is correct. People get blinded by beautiful web-sites and think a sophisticated website equals quality. Most of them are unaware that such websites can be created for very little (less than $50!) using WordPress, even by non-techies. And of course, people are unaware of what good quality is, in leather goods. So they accept such sub-standard goods, thinking that is how it should be. An insult to all the good leatherworkers everywhere, if you ask me.

I seem to be getting such emails as well - many are spam, phishing to collect confidential information like bank details and SSNs. The scams are more and more sophisticated these days. I always call the actual company and I have yet to find even one of the emails to be authentic. Yet, they appear absolutely authentic in the emails I receive. I view the 'raw message'. Checking that carefully, you can determine if the message is in fact from eBay or somewhere else. eBay or amazon or other companies will not send emails via google or yahoo or other such email service providers.