Very basic stitching question

[ScottAR]

Hello. I came across my father's long-lost Solingen "Sheriff" knife. I cleaned up the blade, and now I'd like to restore the sheath. 

The problem is the stitching, most of which has worn away. From the look of it (one color on top, another on the bottom) this was machine-stitched. I'd like to replicate this (by hand, since I don't have a machine) but I don't know if that's feasible. It's not a lot of stitching to I don't mind investing a bit of time, but I'm hardly expert so I guess I'll have to settle for a basic saddle stitch.

Another issue is that for some reason the hole size top and bottom is different, so that the same size thread wouldn't look the same on both sides. I think erring to the larger size would be best, since the larger holes are on the outer face, but wasn't sure if that meant it would be difficult passing that through the back.

Lastly, the sheath is riveted at multiple points, so I can't just continue the same stitch the whole way along. It was recommended to me to stitch up to the rivet, back stitch at least two stitches, to lock the stitch. I'm fairly sure I don't want to drill out and replace the rivets, as Murphy's law would kick in.

Below are two pics: a top/bottom view of the sheath, and a closeup of the threads and holes; the blue and yellow threads are a sample card with waxed polyester from Maine Thread Co, the bottom blue being 0.2" and the yellow 0.3"; I was going to go for the 0.3" but in "scarlet," which is the closest match to the thread on the black side of the sheath.

So some specific questions:

-- is the one color/saddle stitch the best way to go?

-- Is there a practical reason to go with the 0.02" thread instead, which is a closer size match to the existing red? I thought a thicker thread would be stronger but didn't know if there was a good reason the manufacturer had used the thinner, plus the holes on the back are much smaller.

-- since I'll have to start/stop several times before and after the rivets, any tips on tying off?

-- it was also recommended to me to use a contact cement to seal the two pieces of leather. Should I, and any product recommendations? 

-- fortunately, despite the age, the leather isn't brittle. Should I treat with a leather conditioner first to be sure? I have Otter Wax Leather Oil; is there anything different I should use on the back side, which I presume is the rough out (if that's the right term)?

There are probably a few other things I've forgotten.

[Hags]

IMHO,

Saddle stitch by all means

Thinner thread will be fine, your not towing a truck here. The holes on back look smaller because of the machine stitching, mine always do.

Double the start and stop stitch and burn/melt the ends on the back. You can tie off if you like. 

You would have to separate the two pieces and let contact cement set up before it would be effective so I think not. Maybe some other glue a Goop or something similar you could put in with a stick and clamp till dry?

Just about any leather treatment would be an improvement. 

Nice find and well worth the effort to save the original. Most of the ones I get are crumbling ruins. It looks very much like the sheath for my Father in laws Mora that he had in north Africa in WW2.

 

[TomE]

I would skip the glue because it will be easier to line up the holes when stitching.  The stitches will be plenty strong. If its difficult to insert a harness needle through the existing hole then a sewing awl is a useful probe.  I'd be using #207 (0.02") or #277 (0.023") bonded nylon thread and backstitching 2-1/2 stitches to put both ends on the backside.  Trim the ends close, wave a lighter at the ends to seal them, and tuck each end into a hole using a fid (blunt awl).   I'd apply a light coat of neatsfoot oil, let it soak in for a day, and apply another coat if it needs it.  Leather balms like Fiebings Aussie Conditioner work well for me. 

[fredk]

If you want this to look good, take out those rusty rivets and replace with brass double-headed ready-rivets

Take out the rivets, sew up then replace the rivets

omo

[tsunkasapa]

15 minutes ago, fredk said:

If you want this to look good, take out those rusty rivets and replace with brass double-headed ready-rivets

Take out the rivets, sew up then replace the rivets

omo

What he said!

[Dwight]

Most likely I too would replace the rivets . . . it is just how "authentic" you want it to look.

But if you want one color on top and another color on the bottom . . . saddle stitching is definitely NOT the way to do it.

Traditional saddle stitching will cause every other stitch to be the same color . . .  with the different color in the stitch next to it.

You want to do a loop stitch . . . such as a sewing machine does . . . the top thread is pushed down thru the sheath . . . looped around the bottom thread . . . then the same top thread is pulled back up thru the same hole . . . and the two threads pulled together so that the overlap loop is in the middle between the pieces of leather.

This is a 20 dollar tool that will make that a much easier job . . .   https://tandyleather.com/products/sewing-awl-kit

May God bless,

Dwight

 

[fredk]

I think a loop stitch with different coloured threads could be hand sewn with one of these;

An Auto Awl

Use coloured thread A to run through the loops of coloured thread B which is on the bobbin

edit; ah, Dwight got posting whilst I was still writing

Edited March 20, 2022 by fredk

[chuck123wapati]

49 minutes ago, tsunkasapa said:

What he said!

yup!!

[ScottAR]

Thanks for the replies. 

Is the purpose for replacing the rivets to make the stitching better or to improve the appearance of the rivets? 

The knife had been my father's; he passed away eleven years ago, so there's a sentimental reason to keep it as original as possible. I did just take my Dremel out and polished off most of the rust (see below). 

I'm looking into that  Auto Awl, though likely with the Maine Thread Co (they did send me their free thread sample card so I feel an irrational bit of obligation). 

 

[Dwight]

In not all . . . but many . . .  and they usually are not top quality knives . . . the rivets were placed there to keep the knife blade from cutting thru the threads as the knife is drawn from or inserted back into the sheath.  And by dragging against the rivet . . . it hopelessly dulls the knife blade.  

They did this to keep from having to put a welt between the top and bottom pieces . . . simply a cheap process.  

I would not have a sheath with them . . . but that is my personal attitude.

This one may or may not have a welt . . . I cannot tell from the picture . . .  and if you want to keep the original rivets in there . . . what you may do is start out with a thinner thread . . . start in the middle between the rivets . . . sew up to a rivet . . . then sew backwards to the other rivet . . . then come back to where you started.  Finish your stitching in the same hole you started . . . all the stitches will then look to be the same.  

And if you pull each one tight (waxing the thread with true beeswax will help this) very few people will notice you double stitched it all . . . it will look uniform . . . and you will not have to remove and replace the rivets . . . or the end cap.

Truthfully . . . that is exactly what I would do.  Go to a Joann fabric shop . . . tell them you want to look at carpet thread . . . it will be very close to what you will want.

I've used it on any number of leather projects . . . it's never failed me yet.

May God bless,

Dwight