Lets talk about sales (or lack thereof)

[Spyros]

I think being unable to sell can be the most disappointing thing and can easily put someone off leatherworking for good.   Most of us start as a hobby (and many stay hobbyists forever), but even as a hobby it can get expensive very quickly.  Most of us try to at least recover our costs by making a few sales here and there, and maybe eventually explore the possibility of turning it into a main gig.  But being unable to make those sales can get very disappointing and even prohibitive.

It would be great to hear from the more experienced of you what strategies and decisions helped you overcome this hurdle, especially at the start.  How did you make your first sales and how did it progress from there, what platforms or markets you joined, how did you structure a successful pricing, and anything else you want to share.

For me it's still very early stages and it's been mainly word of mouth so far.  I started by simply giving away stuff for free to good friends and family as gifts, other people in their circles saw that stuff, and they found me and enquired.  And to be honest I mostly say no because I want to make what I want to make, not necessarily what they want, because at the end of the day I am still very much a hobbyist.  I want to enjoy what I do, which means if I see something interesting on the internet I want to make THAT thing, not the thing that sells best.  And if nobody wants it, I just put it on my wife's facebook (because I don't have one) and eventually it sells, although it might take months sometimes.  But I still have my morning job so I can afford to go without sales for however long it takes without having to give heavy discounts.

But that's just me.  What about you?  

Edited April 2, 2022 by Spyros

[Handstitched]

@Spyros

I feel your pain & disappointment . It has taken some years, but I have made myself known  through ' word of mouth' and attending regular markets( and in the same location at the venue), flyers , cards, and making something fancy  to display on my tables, that does get a lot of attention, because thats what they see when they first enter my stall. I get a lot of " oo's & a'hs " and a lot of praise, and further interest that potentially turn into orders.    I have tried newspaper advertising , local advertising   etc. without much luck,  but word of mouth  & markets works best, for me  at least. However, this f*&^%ing COVID really messed things up for all of us.  Thank God for COVID relief for small businesses, otherwise, I'd be out of business. 

In one way, the lockdowns we had, helped to concentrate the mind , creatively  . 

The other thing I'm glad I did,  was to diversify, I  repair horse rugs, and do some canvas repairs. So if the leather side of things were slow, or markets are canned ,  the rugs etc.  do help, not entirely, but enough to pay a few bills.  But even the rugs have slowed quite a bit lately . So  I find myself taking on whatever my hands...and my machines can do these days. 

And, once upon a time , I had a paper round ( a cashie) that helped too for a time. 

2 hours ago, Spyros said:

How did you make your first sales

My first sales....well, my very first market?  , I made just under $12.00 All I had was a few key rings, a few book marks, and one or two belts on a small table . I knew nothing about what I was doing. That  was 17 years ago . I have learnt so much in that time. 

As making for making  good $$$ , stick with your morning job. It does help to do more than just leather.   For those doing leather as a hobby, keep it up for the pure joy of creating something beautiful with their own hands, but don't expect  to make a fortune .  

For me , there were good sales, making good money, it got to a peak, and now its dropped off .  I can't  blame all of it on COVID . 

Would be nice to hear from some saddle makers for their point of view ?? 

Hope this sorta helps,

HS

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Handstitched

[chrisash]

In Europe at least we live in a throw away society where things are valued in days rather than years (not everything but many items)

Leatherworker tend to slag off the far east items as crap, but in fact they never look at how well they are made, (mass production and good quality control in general) but designed for they throw away society

Hobby people feel that because they spend time making one offs they should sell at a better price, but does the main buyers know the difference and unfortunately many examples shown on forums are quite low quality. 

Those who are successful end to be the ones who spend money on marketing their goods, which is not the same a page on Etsy or Facebook

Many skilled workers can make items as good as Hermes or LV or any big brand, but the potential customers are sold on the brand which costs a lot of time and effort yet alone money to build

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by chrisash

[Klara]

On 4/2/2022 at 8:23 AM, Spyros said:

but even as a hobby it can get expensive very quickly.  Most of us try to at least recover our costs by making a few sales...

... I want to make what I want to make, not necessarily what they want,  ...

But I still have my morning job so I can afford to go without sales for however long it takes without having to give heavy discounts.

...

Firstly, a great many hobbies can get very expensive without any hope of recovering your money. Model vehicles, anybody? Or horse or dog sports?

Secondly, making what the customer wants to buy vs. what one wants to make is one of the defining differences between pro and hobbyist, in my opinion. Actually, I have often thought, standing in my market stall, that maybe I should work to order, make bespoke items. Because when you make each item individually (handknitting there is no other way), you can just as well make exactly what the customer wants. On the other hand, on the few occasions where I did work to orders, I was rather stressed. Because sizing needs to be exact and the item overall perfect... So that's not really what I want to do either.

Thirdly, I dare say that another source of money is essential for sleeping soundly.

Btw., I've decided to mostly stop working for others in wool, and to not even start in leather. I'm still waiting for people to even notice my dog's fabulous collars. Or my belt buckles with borzoi (yep, a year ago I did hope for people wanting to buy some. Not going to happen.)

 

 

 

[Spyros]

35 minutes ago, Klara said:

Firstly, a great many hobbies can get very expensive without any hope of recovering your money. Model vehicles, anybody? Or horse or dog sports?

I guess your point is that hobbies come with a cost and I should just accept it?  No, I don't have to. 

It's nothing for me to make something that people would pay money for.  I'm just looking for the easiest way to align what I want to make with what people want to buy, without them annoying me too much.

When people ask me "You know what I'd really like you to make for me?" the first response that usually comes to my mind is "I don't actually give a **** what you want me to make"  

I usually manage to keep it inside though.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Spyros

[Frodo]

I have a booth most most  Saturday at different Festivals/flea markets etc.  I have noticed  recently that because the price of everything has skyrocketed , The people are not buying. They are looking  I refer to the lookers as ''Tire kickers"   

[Handstitched]

2 hours ago, Spyros said:

"I don't actually give a **** what you want me to make" 

I have the exact same feeling when these arm chair experts come into my stall and say, 

"Aaaw maaaate, ....you should make this this and this....you'll make a fortune !!!!! " 

Me thinking: Yeh.. ..whatever.....nod & smile......now f***k off !!!! . I'll make what I want to make  not what you tell me to make " . 

One of these days my "filter" may well  be turned off . 

Hang in there Spyros   

HS 

[Handstitched]

15 minutes ago, Frodo said:

''Tire kickers"   

I have ' those' that  I call the ' 3 P Brigade' , 'Pick it up, Put it down and P *ss off .

And then theres the ' TFB's'  the  ' Touchy Feely Brigade . They like to touch &  open everything, and say..."O'h I love the smell of leather"  and not closing and putting it back where they found it . I'm sure they're the same people that dip bits of bread in olive oil and tapenades  at markets .

And the ' Be Backs' .  " O'h that looks nice...."   Until they see the price,... they then say " I'll be back" 

So yeh , we can tell who will buy and who won't.

HS 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Handstitched

[fredk]

You have to balance what you want to make with what customers' want.  I make what I want but I'm also open to making something  a customer wants, as long as its in my experience to do it. [One item which comes to mind was a car owner asked for covers for part of his car front seats. An area of the car seats were badly worn. I made the covers and he just glued them in place.] I'm also building up a stock of small items that I hope will make sales

I once knew a prominent Ulster artist. She painted 'pet portraits' and the occasional human portrait. She once told me that she really hated doing these paintings. So why do you do them? I asked  Her reply, 'because they pay the bills and allow me to paint what I really want to do'

If you can, try going on journeys to nowhere on buses and trains and observe people. Go to a town centre and sit with a sandwich and coffee and observe people passing by.  I've been using buses and trains, going to town cafes.  I have a small sketch book full of ideas of things I've seen, designs of bags, purses and even wallets and so much more that other passengers or people walking by have.  Go into fashion stores and look at the 'leather' items~* on sale. These are the things that some people will buy

* on this, No.3 son drew my attention to a certain style of back-pack bag in a top fashion store. The bag was available in many colours and there was a sales offer on them. £125 instead of £160. The bag was an exact copy of the school bag we in Ulster used to use 50 years ago. I managed to find a price for those bags, about £2.50 in 1971-ish, or about £80 today, so not terribly expensive in comparrison;   https://www.scaramangashop.co.uk/Fashion-and-Furniture-Blog/wp-content/uploads/bag4.jpg

When I was involved in historical presentation groups a lot of my sales were to the group members and some to the public, about 70 / 30 %   Since I left that and the groups have died away I'm doing mostly things just for family, and giving the odd item to friends. But I'm also building up a small stock of a range of items for when we are allowed to go out and do outside markets et cetera again. I have two 'sales agents' in two countries who both want stock, but at the moment and since March 2020 they can't get to the places they wanted to take my items

A few years ago I thought I had nice earner all lined up. A certain shop keeper wanted me to make a range of certain things. He wanted quality as his only other source was from overseas and the quality was abysmal. During negotiations the shop keep disappeared and the shop locked up. It took almost 18 months till I found out where he was - in prison for fraud! His brother took over the shop and doesn't want my items, he's happy selling tat

[chuck123wapati]

for me it was just part of the knife sale, you buy my knife you get my sheath too. Now i make more leather goods than knives, quicker and faster and much easier. most of my sales are for what the customer wants 

 i've found not all people like what i like or will buy what i think they should like but they always buy what they like whether i like it or not. LOL now say that real fast