Lets talk about sales (or lack thereof)

[kgg]

2 hours ago, DJole said:

You're a Newfoundlander? I spent 3 fun-filled years in St. John's going to Memorial. Are you a townie or from out 'round da bay?

Yes, I'm a pure breed townie. I do like your polite reference "round da bay".

kgg

[Spyros]

On 4/2/2022 at 8:04 PM, chrisash said:

In Europe at least we live in a throw away society where things are valued in days rather than years (not everything but many items)

Leatherworker tend to slag off the far east items as crap, but in fact they never look at how well they are made, (mass production and good quality control in general) but designed for they throw away society

Hobby people feel that because they spend time making one offs they should sell at a better price, but does the main buyers know the difference and unfortunately many examples shown on forums are quite low quality. 

Those who are successful end to be the ones who spend money on marketing their goods, which is not the same a page on Etsy or Facebook

Many skilled workers can make items as good as Hermes or LV or any big brand, but the potential customers are sold on the brand which costs a lot of time and effort yet alone money to build

 

In other words, leather goods is a niche market these days.  And it is a broadly misunderstood market with a bit of ignorance on the consumer's part (and somethimes our part as well).  And that's ok, every market has its hurdles. 

In fact if you think about it, and despite everything you mentioned, the leather goods market has less hurdles than others and it's almost a friendly market by comparison.  For example try to break into the car or phone market as a new manufacturer, it's practically impossible unless you're already some manufacturing giant.  Try to make and sell your own cigarettes, or medicinal drugs, or white goods.  Impossible.   And so on and so forth, in fact if you look at commonly used items in a household there's actually very few that you can still make and sell with reasonable investment and without feeling that you have to fight the whole universe.  Leather goods is one of them, so take the good with the bad and work with the advantages you do have, because there are a few: there's still a significant number of people out there who value quality over quantity, longevity over convenience, craft over mass production, and within reason they are willing to pay accordingly.   They are not everywhere, but they exist, even if some of them don't know it and you have to explain it to them.

[Handstitched]

23 hours ago, fredk said:

If you can, try going on journeys to nowhere on buses and trains and observe people.

I did that very thing at one of my (former) regular markets . I just sat and observed  what people were doing, what they were saying,  wearing , their behavior and son on.  You can learn a lot from just observing .   I could easily  get myself a degree in sociology .  

One of the 'highlights' from my observations, was an Asian looking woman pushing a shiny  vintage  looking  pram with big wheels,  while pressing buttons on her device and without even  looking at the screen and without looking  where she was going. I thought it was a baby in the pram...it was a fat furry Pekingese dog , dressed up in a  frilly  dress.  

Nuff said.

Meanwhile, back to selling leather goods..........

HS

 

[Samalan]

On 4/2/2022 at 2:23 AM, Spyros said:

I think being unable to sell can be the most disappointing thing and can easily put someone off leatherworking for good.   Most of us start as a hobby (and many stay hobbyists forever), but even as a hobby it can get expensive very quickly.  Most of us try to at least recover our costs by making a few sales here and there, and maybe eventually explore the possibility of turning it into a main gig.  But being unable to make those sales can get very disappointing and even prohibitive.

It would be great to hear from the more experienced of you what strategies and decisions helped you overcome this hurdle, especially at the start.  How did you make your first sales and how did it progress from there, what platforms or markets you joined, how did you structure a successful pricing, and anything else you want to share.

For me it's still very early stages and it's been mainly word of mouth so far.  I started by simply giving away stuff for free to good friends and family as gifts, other people in their circles saw that stuff, and they found me and enquired.  And to be honest I mostly say no because I want to make what I want to make, not necessarily what they want, because at the end of the day I am still very much a hobbyist.  I want to enjoy what I do, which means if I see something interesting on the internet I want to make THAT thing, not the thing that sells best.  And if nobody wants it, I just put it on my wife's facebook (because I don't have one) and eventually it sells, although it might take months sometimes.  But I still have my morning job so I can afford to go without sales for however long it takes without having to give heavy discounts.

But that's just me.  What about you?  

Business is a money eating monster that can bankrupt you, and eat you alive if you don't treat it right!

[Spyros]

15 hours ago, Samalan said:

Business is a money eating monster that can bankrupt you, and eat you alive if you don't treat it right!

That's why I get a little angry with all those motivational speakers and successful businessmen blindly advising everyone to quit their jobs and "follow their dreams / do what they love". 

Just because starting a business worked out for them, they don't realise what a meatgrinder it really is and how many people and families get destroyed every day in the process.

I know they probably mean well and just want to get people motivated but more often than not it's the wrong advice to give.  Irresponsible.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Spyros

[Handstitched]

The one thing they don't always tell you  @Spyros is where their capital came from.  Do they have wealthy families?  What did they sell to get the capital ?  What money did they borrow and how much and who/ where from? Or , did they lie, deceive,   cheat & steal their way to a fortune?  Its unkind I know, but I  do wonder.

I just used whatever  little savings I had to buy  a few tools, leather etc. But I was also doing odd jobs around town  and at the local pub to earn a few bucks,  including being a rousy . 

HS

[Spyros]

2 hours ago, Handstitched said:

The one thing they don't always tell you  @Spyros is where their capital came from.  Do they have wealthy families?  What did they sell to get the capital ?  What money did they borrow and how much and who/ where from? Or , did they lie, deceive,   cheat & steal their way to a fortune?  Its unkind I know, but I  do wonder.

I just used whatever  little savings I had to buy  a few tools, leather etc. But I was also doing odd jobs around town  and at the local pub to earn a few bucks,  including being a rousy . 

HS

I know...  Can't say we have too many successful businessmen back home in Greece but almost all politicians are like that, you read their CV online and it always has some massive jumps that don't make sense.  Like: "in 1992 he graduated from law school with honours and started his career as a trainee lawyer at a private law firm before accepting in 1995 the position of DIRECTOR OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS in the Ministry of Justice" 

Then you read further down and he's almost always the son of somebody connected.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Spyros

[chrisash]

On 4/4/2022 at 4:55 AM, Spyros said:

In other words, leather goods is a niche market these days.  And it is a broadly misunderstood market with a bit of ignorance on the consumer's part (and somethimes our part as well).  And that's ok, every market has its hurdles. 

In fact if you think about it, and despite everything you mentioned, the leather goods market has less hurdles than others and it's almost a friendly market by comparison.  For example try to break into the car or phone market as a new manufacturer, it's practically impossible unless you're already some manufacturing giant.  Try to make and sell your own cigarettes, or medicinal drugs, or white goods.  Impossible.   And so on and so forth, in fact if you look at commonly used items in a household there's actually very few that you can still make and sell with reasonable investment and without feeling that you have to fight the whole universe.  Leather goods is one of them, so take the good with the bad and work with the advantages you do have, because there are a few: there's still a significant number of people out there who value quality over quantity, longevity over convenience, craft over mass production, and within reason they are willing to pay accordingly.   They are not everywhere, but they exist, even if some of them don't know it and you have to explain it to them.

Whilst I was browsing this morning I came across a post of some leather dogs collars tooled with animals and lined with a nice green lining, now the general market for such will be tiny and a hard sell to most of us after all they soon get dirty , greasy and look worn, but I assume a few dog or pet owners showing their dogs at dog shows would pay the earth for a dog collar that really stood out, with quite a good size market for them.. many hobbyists will make their plain wallet and advertise with thousand's of others on Esty or similar sites and expect to make sales with no effort and no real marketing

You need a niche market you can exploit to the full rather than compete with thousands of other hopeful's selling the same basic items, make something different that stands out. there are millions of artists in this world few ever sell their goods at a profit that recovers the hours invested in the painting or drawing, same with writer's and many other hobbies

[Handstitched]

39 minutes ago, chrisash said:

there are millions of artists in this world few ever sell their goods at a profit that recovers the hours invested in the painting or drawing, same with writer's and many other hobbies

I wish I could charge by the hour, if I did , I would be quite wealthy by now.  So instead, I charge what I think is a fair price . 

@Spyros I have seen business ' seminars' ,  get rich schemes etc. ( aka scams)  as well as ' pyramid selling'  come and go , I've used my wisdom...and my gut instinct  to steer clear of them .  Remember those brand name  ' magnetic wrist bands'  that were constantly advertised  on TV ?  Not seen them in yonks. Can't be that good .   I compare those with the oldest marketing trick in the book. 'Invent a problem and create a product to solve it ' .   I wonder how many people got stung by those?.....at a 'seminar' perhaps? 

HS 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Handstitched

[Samalan]

7 hours ago, Spyros said:

That's why I get a little angry with all those motivational speakers and successful businessmen blindly advising everyone to quit their jobs and "follow their dreams / do what they love"

It's true as long as what you love is building a business, and except all  of the life changing  aspects of that. Business building can be good and bad it's a lot of very hard work and long hours. You get to find out who you are or aren't .  blaming others for your own short cummings is not a good idea, bottom line it's up to you.              don't get angry try to be that successful businessman, find out for yourself .   Its an experience like no other.