Problem with dying Veg-tan leather

[firearian]

Hey everyone, I'm quite new to leatherworking and I'm having a bit of a problem with dying my cuts. I recently used some Fiebings Pro Dye to dye some veg-tan I got. I did one coat (circular motion with a cotton cloth), waited for around 4 hours and did another quick coat and then let it dry for around 24 hours. But for some reason when it dried the edges of the cuts seem to be a bit... Off? I'm not really sure how else to describe it so I've attached some images to it. In the images, basically what I want it to look like is what it looks like in the middle of the cut (like the dark plain look), but the edges all look shinier/rougher for some reason)

Is this because I didn't do enough deglazing on it? Or is it just the quality of the leather or something? I'm a bit lost as to why it's happening and not sure how to fix it at the moment... Any advice would be much appreciated!

Edited July 31, 2022 by firearian

[johnnydb]

Actually that looks normal.   

And what you need to do now is rub, buff, and work off all the excess dye on the leather.   

Yes, it's going to get shiny.  

But then a sealing coat of whatever finish you use can be flat instead of gloss.  Glossy finishes are common but they do make flat.  

Black dye tends to bleed off into clothing and everything it touches.  So a LOT of sealing will help protect against that.  

Have fun!

[tsunkasapa]

If it was new (not recycled) leather, I would ask why you used deglazer. In all my years of working with leather, I have never found a use for the stuff.

[Dwight]

Thru the years . . . I've never found any veg tan leather that really dyes great unless I do one little thing to it first.

I give it a light coat of neatsfoot oil first . . . and on the hair side only.  A 1 inch or so bristle brush dipped and stroked across the leather until it is all coated evenly . . . and the emphasis is on a LIGHT coat of oil. 

Then the dyes all seem to be much smoother and more even.  The one exception to this is black . . . I don't oil before I dye black . . . black dyes black . . . period.  I then buff the heck out of the black . . . and oil it then.

All of them then get at least 24 hours afterward for dying . . . and another 24 for finishing.  

Like Tsunkasapa said . . . deglazer is worthless for virgin veg tanned leather.  Just another product you buy that is never needed or useful.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

[Hags]

Ditto the NFO. I do it again after dying to even it out even more.

[Silverd]

3 hours ago, Dwight said:

Thru the years . . . I've never found any veg tan leather that really dyes great unless I do one little thing to it first.

I give it a light coat of neatsfoot oil first . . . and on the hair side only.  A 1 inch or so bristle brush dipped and stroked across the leather until it is all coated evenly . . . and the emphasis is on a LIGHT coat of oil. 

Then the dyes all seem to be much smoother and more even.  The one exception to this is black . . . I don't oil before I dye black . . . black dyes black . . . period.  I then buff the heck out of the black . . . and oil it then.

All of them then get at least 24 hours afterward for dying . . . and another 24 for finishing.  

Like Tsunkasapa said . . . deglazer is worthless for virgin veg tanned leather.  Just another product you buy that is never needed or useful.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

100% agree with this technique of pre oiling when using non black Febings pro dies.  

Silverd

[Garyak]

I’d suggest investing in an airbrush set up. Just my opinion. You’ll save tons on dyes and your options when blending colors and multiple colors together are endless. 

[Doc Reaper]

I’ve noticed I get the same thing if I over apply the dye, it may be termed as pooling when you get too many coats on one area, it kind of gets a coppery glazed look to it. I use thinner to remove some of the applied dye. Wet a paper towel with thinner and wipe it until the paper towel is  mostly black then grab another paper towel and repeat (do this for a total of three times), let it dry overnight 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Doc Reaper

[firearian]

  

12 hours ago, johnnydb said:

Actually that looks normal.   

And what you need to do now is rub, buff, and work off all the excess dye on the leather.   

Yes, it's going to get shiny.  

But then a sealing coat of whatever finish you use can be flat instead of gloss.  Glossy finishes are common but they do make flat.  

Black dye tends to bleed off into clothing and everything it touches.  So a LOT of sealing will help protect against that.  

Have fun!

Of that's a relief! I was honestly quite worried that I'd screwed up somehow! Thank you so much!!

Also thanks for the advice @tsunkasapa. @Dwight, @Hags and @Silverd! Really appreciate the input! I should have clarified that I only just used water to clean/"deglaze" it cause I read elsewhere on here that deglazer is generally unnecessary unless there's a particular issue (oily hands or similar). But I am curious as to the reasons behind your suggestion to pre-oil for non-black dyes? This may seem like a silly question, but I thought the whole point of needing to deglaze leather before dying is so as to remove the oils in there to get a better spread of the dye?

Cheers to you as well @Garyak! I only just got into leatherwork so I've been trying to not go overboard buying things yet, haha.. But I have looked into airbrushes a bit already cause it's been recommended to me a few times now  Fingers crossed I'll be able to afford it... One day, haha

[johnnydb]

Actually,  

I do an oil dye where I mix about a 4% solution of dye (not pro dye but regular) with 96% neatsfoot oil and then brush that on for dying leather.  Gives a very nice light color and really softens the veg tanned leather.  Then again with a seal coat.  

Black is nice....but sometimes you want something else.  

[Silverd]

I use the same mix technique, usually with pro dye and apply it by brush to the back side of a sew line if the needle has blown out the leather.

Silverd

[Silverd]

I also spray die almost exclusively.  Much more control with this process over applying mechanically.  Use Harbor Freight low cost air guns and an oil less compressor.  

 

Silverd

[Samalan]

Spray it you save product get a even coat  it's  faster you can blend colors it's just better all around IMHO that is.

[Dwight]

The dye job you get also depends on how you do it.

The three levels of dye depth are airbrush . . . daub/swab/etc . . . or dip dye.

I won't waste good leather by airbrushing dye on it.  If you do a belt or holster or purse that way . . . and if it rubs up against something fairly heavily . . . it'll scrape that leather and the interior leather will show thru every time.  Daub / swab / etc generally will give a "non even" coat . . . unless you go over it several times.

If you want even and deep dye penetration . . . dip dying is the only way.  Mix your dye 50/50 with dye reducer . . . dip it . . . wipe off any dripping excess . . . and lay down to dry.  Hanging it up will allow the dye to migrate from the top to the bottom of a holster or purse . . . and even worse on a belt.  That will give you an uneven color from one end to the other or one side to the other.

It took me a couple years to finally figure this all out . . . and even though I've heard some speak to the "savings" they get on the amount of dye used . . . I just chalk it up to being cheap . . . and quite honestly . . . producing a cheap product.

May God bless,

Dwight

[TomE]

In defense of Deglazer, it works well to remove excess Barge cement without leaving an oily residue.  @firearian, when you say "dyeing my cuts" do you mean the edges of the leather?  I usually burnish edges with water before applying dye.  I am typically dyeing the edge of bridle leather a darker color and the smooth burnished edge takes the dye in a neater manner than a rough edge.

[Garyak]

15 hours ago, firearian said:

  

Of that's a relief! I was honestly quite worried that I'd screwed up somehow! Thank you so much!!

Also thanks for the advice @tsunkasapa. @Dwight, @Hags and @Silverd! Really appreciate the input! I should have clarified that I only just used water to clean/"deglaze" it cause I read elsewhere on here that deglazer is generally unnecessary unless there's a particular issue (oily hands or similar). But I am curious as to the reasons behind your suggestion to pre-oil for non-black dyes? This may seem like a silly question, but I thought the whole point of needing to deglaze leather before dying is so as to remove the oils in there to get a better spread of the dye?

Cheers to you as well @Garyak! I only just got into leatherwork so I've been trying to not go overboard buying things yet, haha.. But I have looked into airbrushes a bit already cause it's been recommended to me a few times now  Fingers crossed I'll be able to afford it... One day, haha

I bought my badger 155 and spar max compressor in 1994. It won’t die. One of the top 5 best investments I’ve made among this entanglement of shiny things you think you need. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ And so worth it on saving funds down the road. Plus there’s so much room for error when brushing Vs wiping on. You wipe on dye it’s there, that dark and only can get darker. Airbrush you decide the color, from the lightest brown to the darkest tint. You can cut those dyes by 50% with denatured alcohol too. 

[tsunkasapa]

2 hours ago, Dwight said:

I won't waste good leather by airbrushing dye on it.  If you do a belt or holster or purse that way . . . and if it rubs up against something fairly heavily . . . it'll scrape that leather and the interior leather will show thru every time.  Daub / swab / etc generally will give a "non even" coat . . . unless you go over it several times.

 Since almost everything I make is for heavy/outdoor use, I won't waste my time spraying dye. That is a surface treatment only. I mostly swab dye for deeper penetration. Dipping is good, but not everything can be done that way.

[Silverd]

Try diluting the die with reducer and applying by spray method.  Penitration is very good and the process maintains all of the benefits of spraying.  If a fineleather bag is physically gouged deep enough to expose intierior leather the product is likely ruined with or without full dye penitration. If a knife sheath is gouged...so what...it is a utilitarian piece intented for a hard life.  I guess it's case by case, but for each, customer expectations need to be commesurate with their product or they will eventually be disappointed for one reason or another.  

That's what I think!

Silverd

[fredk]

My preferred method is to wet the leather, not too much but thoroughly, then apply multiple coats of thinned dye