Minimal Tools Needed for Knife Sheath

[Gosut]

Hello, everyone. I'm thinking of getting started in leatherworking, beginning with a knife sheath for a Bowie. My goal is a simple two-sided sheath with a thumb break to secure the blade, and a frog stud. My idea with the frog stud is that it would be the simplest way to try different forms of carry without making multiple sheaths. I had thought about a 19th Century style sheath but like the idea of a thumb break to keep the blade in place (the Bowie is an inexpensive take on a mid-19th Century pattern).

That's the first project. I'm thinking I can use a utility knife I already have (standard boxcutter). Other than that, this is what I'm thinking I'll have to buy:

• Groover.
• Awl.
• Stitching chisels (4mm spacing).
• Poly mallet.
• Harness needles.
• Beveler
• Skiving knife
• Burnisher
• Rivet / Snap setter.
• Cutting mat.
• Mallet mat.

I'm uncertain if I'll need a tack hammer to pound down the stitching.

I'm also uncertain if I need a stitching pony or a marble/granite slab. I have thought about using a leap-frog method for a saddle stitch. The slab is really giving me pause, since I'm not looking at getting into tooling at this point.

I already have a metal yardstick, but I can get a cork-backed metal ruler locally.

Materials I think I'll need are:

• Veg tan 8/9 ounce leather.
• Waxed thread (1 mm).
• Thumb break stiffener.
• Snaps.
• Rivets.
• Collar studs
• Contact cement.

I'm uncertain about keeping the leather a natural color and using neatsfoot oil I already have to finish it. Also uncertain about whether I'll need to buy some beeswax.

I'm thinking of using craft paper and poster board to make the patterns.

Can I get by with the items on my list? Am I overlooking something? Any advice would be appreciated.

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, Gosut said:

Hello, everyone. I'm thinking of getting started in leatherworking, beginning with a knife sheath for a Bowie. My goal is a simple two-sided sheath with a thumb break to secure the blade, and a frog stud. My idea with the frog stud is that it would be the simplest way to try different forms of carry without making multiple sheaths. I had thought about a 19th Century style sheath but like the idea of a thumb break to keep the blade in place (the Bowie is an inexpensive take on a mid-19th Century pattern).

That's the first project. I'm thinking I can use a utility knife I already have (standard boxcutter). Other than that, this is what I'm thinking I'll have to buy:

• Groover.
• Awl.
• Stitching chisels (4mm spacing).
• Poly mallet.
• Harness needles.
• Beveler
• Skiving knife
• Burnisher
• Rivet / Snap setter.
• Cutting mat.
• Mallet mat.

I'm uncertain if I'll need a tack hammer to pound down the stitching.

I'm also uncertain if I need a stitching pony or a marble/granite slab. I have thought about using a leap-frog method for a saddle stitch. The slab is really giving me pause, since I'm not looking at getting into tooling at this point.

I already have a metal yardstick, but I can get a cork-backed metal ruler locally.

Materials I think I'll need are:

• Veg tan 8/9 ounce leather.
• Waxed thread (1 mm).
• Thumb break stiffener.
• Snaps.
• Rivets.
• Collar studs
• Contact cement.

I'm uncertain about keeping the leather a natural color and using neatsfoot oil I already have to finish it. Also uncertain about whether I'll need to buy some beeswax.

I'm thinking of using craft paper and poster board to make the patterns.

Can I get by with the items on my list? Am I overlooking something? Any advice would be appreciated.

yes you can!!

you dont really need a skiving knife at this point any knife will skive, you can use a lot of different household item to burnish also, denim,  canvas, glass, come to mind also you can use a regular cutting board from the kitchen to replace the mats

If you plan on staying in the craft buy all those things!  if you don't just search your home for good equivalents.

finishes can be as easy as nfo and a good clear shoe polish, mink oil water proofing is what i use. The natural color will darken with age and amount of sunlight it gets, a lot of folks just use the nfo then lay it out in the sun to darken naturally. 

[Matt S]

I've taken the word "minimal" literally. Possibly too literally...

On 1/1/2023 at 3:49 PM, Gosut said:

Hello, everyone. I'm thinking of getting started in leatherworking, beginning with a knife sheath for a Bowie. My goal is a simple two-sided sheath with a thumb break to secure the blade, and a frog stud. My idea with the frog stud is that it would be the simplest way to try different forms of carry without making multiple sheaths. I had thought about a 19th Century style sheath but like the idea of a thumb break to keep the blade in place (the Bowie is an inexpensive take on a mid-19th Century pattern).

That's the first project. I'm thinking I can use a utility knife I already have (standard boxcutter). Other than that, this is what I'm thinking I'll have to buy:

• Groover.
  Far from essential. Most leatherwork around the world isn't grooved. I reckon it's a late 20th century American thing.
• Awl.
  Absolutely essential. I recommend two -- a diamond harness awl and a slim scratch awl. You will have to sharpen and polish the harness awl before use.
  Alternatively you can drill your stitch holes with a fine (~1mm) drill bit), though I don't care for how that looks.
• Stitching chisels (4mm spacing).
  If you're starting with just one sheath you can mark stitches with a dinner fork or a pair of dividers or a ruler or something.
• Poly mallet.
  Got a claw hammer? Ball pein? Lump of wood?
• Harness needles.
  Yes, or at least one.
• Beveler
  Ease the edges with sandpaper or broken glass like the old-timers did.
• Skiving knife
  Not if you're not specifically skiving anything. If you are, try a power sander or a small wood plane, or even your bowie knife 
• Burnisher
  Use some canvas or denim, a lump of smooth, hard wood (e.g. a tool handle), plastic (e.g. a sharpie), bone, horn or antler.
• Rivet / Snap setter.
  Probably not
• Cutting mat.
  Offcut of wooden board, MDF, hardboard, chipboard, an old kitchen plastic cutting board or even just newspapers
• Mallet mat.
  Not sure what one of they is.

I'm uncertain if I'll need a tack hammer to pound down the stitching.
Again, maybe you already have a hammer of some sort? Otherwise you can rub stitching down with whatever you use for burnishing instead of pounding #it.

I'm also uncertain if I need a stitching pony or a marble/granite slab.
Neither is essential, especially just for one project.

I have thought about using a leap-frog method for a saddle stitch.
Do you mean doing a running stitch each way to imitate a saddle stitch? That will get the job done quicker but it won't be as strong and you may struggle to get it neat.
If you mean backstitching that that'll work fine.

I already have a metal yardstick, but I can get a cork-backed metal ruler locally.
A metal yardstick will work fine, just go slow and be careful. How much rulering are you likely to do for a knife sheath anyway?

Materials I think I'll need are:

• Veg tan 8/9 ounce leather.
  Yes, but bear in mind that "veg tan" covers a huge range of different leathers. In the US hobbyist market it usually refers to russet (uncoloured) veg tanned cowhide with little top surface treatments, either slicked or lightly buffed. Usually suited for tooling/carving. That will work fine, especially for a 19th century style piece.
• Waxed thread (1 mm).
  1mm is quite chunky, though that is popular at the moment. Use waxed linen for period authenticity or a synthetic braid for an easy time.
• Thumb break stiffener.
  I think that's mostly used by holster makers. Never seen it in a knife sheath.
• Snaps.
  I suggest Sam Browne studs -- no specialist tools needed and "correct" for 19th century.
• Rivets.
  Use either copper saddlers rivets for authenticity or tubular rivets for simplicity.
• Collar studs
  For... carrying your knife on your shirt collar?
• Contact cement.
  Handy but not essential. You can use almost any common glue that sets soft if you clamp them for long enough to go off. Most leatherwork was done before modern glues were available.

I'm uncertain about keeping the leather a natural color and using neatsfoot oil I already have to finish it. Also uncertain about whether I'll need to buy some beeswax.
<rant>Neetsfoot oil isn't a finish or a colourant. It's a dressing, or rather a component to a good dressing. For a good 19th century correct leather dressing for hard use use rendered animal grease e.g. tallow or a mixture containing lots of grease e.g. dubbin. Oil should only be used sparingly else it will saturate and oversoften the leather and compromise the fibres. It's quick and easy to apply, and looks like it's doing something good, which is why it's so popular.</rant>

Just dress it with whatever you have for maintaining leather shoes and use it. Russet leather will darken naturally with exposure to sunlight.

I'm thinking of using craft paper and poster board to make the patterns.
Should work fine, I mostly use card from beer boxes for smaller patterns like this. For some reason I have an endless supply. 

You'll need something for making small round holes for rivets, studs etc. Punches (the sort you hit or the sort you squeeze) are ideal, but with care you can drill these too.

You'll also need a substance for burnishing your edges. The usual Tandy answer is "gum tragacanth" but I've never got good results with it. Almost any water-based glue diluted in water works well. Have had good results with gum arabic, woodworkers PVA, and hide/rabbit/pearl glue.

[tsunkasapa]

1 hour ago, Matt S said:

You'll also need a substance for burnishing your edges. The usual Tandy answer is "gum tragacanth" but I've never got good results with it. Almost any water-based glue diluted in water works well. Have had good results with gum arabic, woodworkers PVA, and hide/rabbit/pearl glue.

I just use water. Rub the edge with a damp sponge or rag and rub away. If you want, rub a bit of beeswax and reburnish.

[fredk]

A selection of iron nails for making holes. A penny nail will make a slot for lacing

[Gosut]

2 hours ago, Matt S said:

I have thought about using a leap-frog method for a saddle stitch.
Do you mean doing a running stitch each way to imitate a saddle stitch? That will get the job done quicker but it won't be as strong and you may struggle to get it neat.
If you mean backstitching that that'll work fine.

Thanks for the reply.

A leap frog stitch is just a method of saddle stitching. You thread a harness needle on both ends, thread one needle through the first hole from the punched side, then even the thread. Next you put the other needle through the second hole. With the other hand you hold that thread down tight against the piece as you thread the first needle through the second hole on top of the thread already through it, then through the third hole on the punched side. You then hold down that thread tight against the piece and thread the needle you were holding down through the third hole, going over the top of the thread already in the hole. You then repeat. It's a saddle stitch that's just executed a little differently because you're holding the piece and providing thread tension with one hand. I came across it on YouTube while trying to research what I need to do.

The drawback is that it might be hard to do a half hitch with each stitch. Some examples on YouTube have a half hitch or double half hitch while doing the saddle stitch., and some don't.

The collar stud is like a Sam Browne. It's a rivet with a stud.

The thumb break on a sheath is sort of a boot knife thing. It's not period, but I like the idea.

If this project works well, I have an idea to do a period sheaf for a cheap reproduction Bowie I came across that looks very similar to a Milledgeville Arsenal Bowie, circa US Civil War. Unlike this one, it would have a belt loop on the back of the sheath. just that it's sewn in under the blade guard rather than on a loop of leather extending the length of the haft.

 

[TonyV]

If you are installing rivets or snaps on the sheath you will find that some rivets and snaps come with the correct setter, anvil and hole punch.  some don't come with them, however, so pay attention while shopping.  But a well sewn joint doesn't need rivets, and snaps are not period correct.  A frog or button made of leather, bone or antler plus a thong would work well and look great.

The first leather project I built about 12 years ago was a Slim Jim holster for my 1858 Remington clone.  No metal on the holster at all.  I used a plastic computer stylus inserted in my daughter's drawing compass to mark the sewing line,  an old dinner fork I sharpened as a pricking iron, my Speedy Stitcher to pierce the holes and I dyed it with espresso coffee and treated it with NFO.  I used a single needle to sew, going first one way then back on itself.  I used a "stitch rivet" technique that I had seen on an antique holster, which is a set of stitches at each end that goes around back on the main line  I wet formed the holster on the pistol.  I probably have a bunch of needle cuts in the thread, but it is still holding together and used to this day and will probably outlast me.  It definitely looks like an amateur built it, but it doesn't look half bad and it is period correct.

[Gosut]

Today I got the craft paper and poster board, and started laying out the pattern on the paper. Might be making a mistake in doing that, but to my happy surprise, pencil is easy to erase from the paper. My idea is to tinker with the pattern, then see how much leather I'll need.

It was then that I discovered a problem: the top of the blade rises by half an inch until it reaches the beginning of the clip. That means I'll have to size the sheath for the widest point, and that will leave it loose at the top. I split the difference at the blade guard, drawing a straight line to the widest point on both sides, then following the point of the blade. I'm allowing a half inch for the welt.

Today I'd thought of making the sheath tight enough so that I could get by without a means to secure the blade, but with the way it swells at the start of the clip, I don't think that's an option. I've sketched in a strap for the thumb break, setting it at 60 degrees to the top of the sheath and drawing it way longer than it will need to be, so I can cut to fit. It's not going to be period, but it should be secure.

Unfortunately, this also means my idea for a period sheath for that Milledgeville Arsenal Bowie look-alike is probably out. I suspect it's the same blade, but with a wooden handle and a D guard. That would mean it swells in the middle, too.

[Matt S]

On 1/2/2023 at 11:54 PM, tsunkasapa said:

I just use water. Rub the edge with a damp sponge or rag and rub away.

That's a good point. How long before your edges shag out? I found that adding glue makes the burnish go faster and stay slick for longer in use.

[Matt S]

On 1/3/2023 at 1:24 AM, Gosut said:

A leap frog stitch is just a method of saddle stitching. You thread a harness needle on both ends, thread one needle through the first hole from the punched side, then even the thread. Next you put the other needle through the second hole. With the other hand you hold that thread down tight against the piece as you thread the first needle through the second hole on top of the thread already through it, then through the third hole on the punched side. You then hold down that thread tight against the piece and thread the needle you were holding down through the third hole, going over the top of the thread already in the hole. You then repeat. It's a saddle stitch that's just executed a little differently because you're holding the piece and providing thread tension with one hand. I came across it on YouTube while trying to research what I need to do.

The drawback is that it might be hard to do a half hitch with each stitch. Some examples on YouTube have a half hitch or double half hitch while doing the saddle stitch., and some don't.
Okay so a saddle stitch done in the hands instead of a clam. I didn't know that there was a name for that.

The collar stud is like a Sam Browne. It's a rivet with a stud.
Most Sam Brownes I've seen have a screw insted of a rivet. It saves having to have a rivet setter.

The thumb break on a sheath is sort of a boot knife thing. It's not period, but I like the idea.
Fair enough, though I wonder if that's bordering on gilding the lily, especially for a first project. You could lace a bit of shock cord through the retention strap if you want it to snap open.

 

[McCarthy]

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

I'm thinking I can use a utility knife I already have (standard boxcutter).

Yes. Get good blades and strop them extra sharp.

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

Groover.

Grooved stitching is a personal choice. Without the groove your stitching will look more slanted and "hand stitched."

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

Awl.

Yes, but you can live without it for this project.

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

Stitching chisels (4mm spacing).

Good choice.

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

Poly mallet.

Yes.

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

Harness needles.

I recommend John James 002

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

Beveler

Choose carefully. Have a gameplan to sharpen it.

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

• Skiving knife

Not for this project.

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

Burnisher

Yes, or you can make one easily enough.

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

Rivet / Snap setter.

Yes, if you are using hardware you need the setters for it.

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

• Cutting mat.

I can't live without mine.

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

• Mallet mat.

No, but you will want an anvil type surface for setting hardware. Nothing serious, a flat piece of steel will do.

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

I'm uncertain if I'll need a tack hammer to pound down the stitching.

I wouldn't use a tack hammer, any light hammer with a reasonably wide face will do as long as you sand it flat, polish it smooth, and don't hit anything hard with it.

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

I'm also uncertain if I need a stitching pony or a marble/granite slab.

I prefer vises myself. Especially for something like a sheath where you want a good clamp. IMO you do need something to hold the work for best results. You don't need a granite slab for this project but in the future if you need one you will know.

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

I'm uncertain about keeping the leather a natural color and using neatsfoot oil

Good plan. Classic.

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

Also uncertain about whether I'll need to buy some beeswax.

Yes you will want beeswax. It has many uses.

On 1/1/2023 at 10:49 AM, Gosut said:

Can I get by with the items on my list? Am I overlooking something?

You will save a lot of headache by burnishing with Tokonole. Fiebings pro dye in black or dark brown to dye the edges. Ritza Tiger thread specifically. 

[Klara]

I'd recommend Al Stohlman's The Art of Handsewing Leather and The Art of Making Leather Cases, Vol. 1, which describes making a knife sheath. Both books contain huge amounts of useful information. (In France the books are on Kindle, but I can't imagine the fomat working well - check out the sample.)

As for the mallet, it's quicker and easier to make than to buy: 

 I've made mine from an oak branch and never looked back (but then, I live in the country and have a workshop with woodworking tools)

I've also made a stitching pony which I consider almost essential when working as described by Stohlman. If you have a workshop it's easy to make as well. 

By the way, I'm still using the stitching chisels I've bought at the very beginning on Amazon in a leathercraft tool set (came with a burnisher - still occasionally in use - and a groover/edger set of which the groover works well, the edgers less so, for less money than I would have paid in my leather shop for the chisels alone). If the offer is not too ridiculous (like "50 tools for $ 20" - how could that work? ) it can be a good start. 

[Klara]

It just occurred to me: You don't need a groover, but you'll probably want something to mark your stitchline an even distance from the edge. I mostly use a compass (with two pointy ends, no oencil).

[chuck123wapati]

12 hours ago, Gosut said:

Today I got the craft paper and poster board, and started laying out the pattern on the paper. Might be making a mistake in doing that, but to my happy surprise, pencil is easy to erase from the paper. My idea is to tinker with the pattern, then see how much leather I'll need.

It was then that I discovered a problem: the top of the blade rises by half an inch until it reaches the beginning of the clip. That means I'll have to size the sheath for the widest point, and that will leave it loose at the top. I split the difference at the blade guard, drawing a straight line to the widest point on both sides, then following the point of the blade. I'm allowing a half inch for the welt.

Today I'd thought of making the sheath tight enough so that I could get by without a means to secure the blade, but with the way it swells at the start of the clip, I don't think that's an option. I've sketched in a strap for the thumb break, setting it at 60 degrees to the top of the sheath and drawing it way longer than it will need to be, so I can cut to fit. It's not going to be period, but it should be secure.

Unfortunately, this also means my idea for a period sheath for that Milledgeville Arsenal Bowie look-alike is probably out. I suspect it's the same blade, but with a wooden handle and a D guard. That would mean it swells in the middle, too.

 A picture of your blade would help, most of the d guard bowies are straight blades with a clip point and many of the period sheathes are simple fold over /taco type sheathes. Most of those i have looked at had  no means to secure the blade, because its length doesn't make it a blade that will easily fall out of its sheath.  Period sheath could mean about anything in this case most folks in the 1800's either personalized the existing sheath or made their own the best way they knew how. 

[tsunkasapa]

12 hours ago, Matt S said:

That's a good point. How long before your edges shag out? I found that adding glue makes the burnish go faster and stay slick for longer in use.

Never had that issue.

[Gosut]

10 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

 A picture of your blade would help, most of the d guard bowies are straight blades with a clip point and many of the period sheathes are simple fold over /taco type sheathes. Most of those i have looked at had  no means to secure the blade, because its length doesn't make it a blade that will easily fall out of its sheath.  Period sheath could mean about anything in this case most folks in the 1800's either personalized the existing sheath or made their own the best way they knew how. 

.This Bowie isn't the D guard. The shape of the blade is a clip point, but with the increase in the width of the blade at the start of the clip. The D guard Bowies had the straight blades (I thought this one did when I bought it online), but I suspect that the cheap one I was thinking of getting is just the same blade as the one I have now, but with a different handle. After I start this project, it may be best not to have the expense of another Bowie, anyway (even if it is inexpensive).

[Burkhardt]

You got the box cutter, don't over complicate it. 8.00 bucks you're good to go.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304723024126?hash=item46f2e858fe:g:j9oAAOSwxKFdoC8p&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoNAmVQTgtQ0jsyh4dlm5%2BKyYc0T9WYwW0z6DtzaZGLrf%2FBMXG0HkIsqvrIXsYhH%2BIgsAvC1OGBgoECX8oXqijhN2hBPw2LZd31IbfHmOEN5xc31%2B%2Bd7me%2B8OrVJic8b4LCEztAQdG28ZduBLf8VyjD7CufcNWcH5%2By8RHYa4AByn6A277PAs88zY3Ri8TN98iT0PMggvBBdJtfqEKdrP2L8%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR_Sjk4GwYQ

 

[Klara]

Nope, absolutely not. You don't three different threads, just one coulour that goes with your leather and diameter that goes with your needle. The set contains only a scratch awl (if it is one?), no two identical needles, and what's the ring for? 

 

 

[fredk]

The ring is a thimble ring

[Klara]

You mean like a seamstresses thimble? Don't think I've ever used one for sewing leather...

[chuck123wapati]

16 hours ago, Gosut said:

.This Bowie isn't the D guard. The shape of the blade is a clip point, but with the increase in the width of the blade at the start of the clip. The D guard Bowies had the straight blades (I thought this one did when I bought it online), but I suspect that the cheap one I was thinking of getting is just the same blade as the one I have now, but with a different handle. After I start this project, it may be best not to have the expense of another Bowie, anyway (even if it is inexpensive).

i got one of those humpbacked bowie blades from a friend one time, i took my Dremel tool, all i had at the time,  and cut the hump off and made it a drop point.  with your humpback bowie your sheath can be made the same way  as  a straight blade it will just have to be wider to fit.

[tsunkasapa]

A waste of money. 

[Burkhardt]

1 hour ago, tsunkasapa said:

A waste of money. 

Then please post waxed thread, needles and a awl cheaper

 

13 hours ago, Klara said:

Nope, absolutely not. You don't three different threads, just one coulour that goes with your leather and diameter that goes with your needle. The set contains only a scratch awl (if it is one?), no two identical needles, and what's the ring for? 

 

 

.Then tell us whats better, tell me what you would get that's better.

[Burkhardt]

Or this, this is the one that was supposed to up

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354108907245?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110013%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIMRXI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20210125103820%26meid%3D2fd8e617e46842a4b1225c2a8be27dbc%26pid%3D101120%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D125657998264%26itm%3D354108907245%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSIMRVIMLRV5WebV1_0%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c101120.m2107&amdata=cksum%3A3541089072452fd8e617e46842a4b1225c2a8be27dbc|enc%3AAQAHAAAA8Hu6A12tbgsOEr8tufGJ8pgO5yx1UYwu7aWDk8zHpPJImcpEPkz8B%2B%2BqGw3%2Foi9qLjC83xRp%2FyBXQU3xfRj1xyL8QdwkURsN7Y7QX45nVYpx6O72Ye2o4qaOZvdvcVnCffkK1iicJb5VDbR0cNWH0DF9TPku%2F3%2BoqVUdABvNXzni%2BlM5PBgDV8QnnfqPbjmOmVmNOJKQETVbhC9VGSHOPzaIV1QZe47PpjZ9OoS089vI%2BRw39u8w4bpLfOs1U%2BwkMVQg8KLetIIDYgdCYafoiHBhAtxe3i14CXx%2BkgyXve2FCKsovoUfTqe7O%2BYQypKSxA%3D%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

 

[tsunkasapa]

Still useless, the SCRATCH awl will not work for stitching.

Tandy 4-IN-1 Awl Haft & Blades #3209-00 98834320401 | eBay 

Cheaper? No. USABLE? Yes.

C.S. Osborne Shoe Awl Haft #144 Made In USA 96685122229 | eBay

Spending money on useless tools is NOT cheap.