Researching machines

[Saltysteele]

Looking for a machine.  Bags, wallets, holsters,  belts.  Hand sewing is tedious and not my thing, is holding me back. 

I'm fortunate to work in Healthcare and to have worked through the pandemic.  However,  i was hoping to have found more used machines being sold,  now that people are back to work and are ditching all the covid hobbies. 

I like the cobra class 26, but was disappointed it only uses up to 207 thread.   Currently have a Chinese shoe patcher using 138 thread, but the lack of a compound walking foot is a big detriment, stitch length is highly variable,  not very professional appearing (imo).  I prefer 138 or thicker thread.   I think chunky, contrasting-color thread looks great on wallets and holsters, so would like the option to go 346 or higher.  I like stitching to be part of the look, not just functional. 

I am not an expert by any means and admit that i don't know much about machines.  I don't know, of course,  what i don't know,  which is why I'm here. 

I REALLY like the class 26, cylinder arm,  the warranty,  the reputation,  but i don't like being limited to 207 thread.  The price is almost in my grasp (2390 at time of this post), but can't afford it by the time you also add tax and shipping (440 shipping to southwest Michigan).

Also looking at the cowboy 3200, but eyeing the 3500, as well (2195 and 2695, respectively).  Toledo is 3+ hours from me,  but I'd be able to drive down to save the shipping cost.  I've called Bob briefly,   but forgot to ask what shipping cost would be.  I don't mean to make myself a pest calling with single questions every 5 minutes.  Lol

Is there a benefit of the class 26 that would cause it to edge out the 3200 and its ability to use 346 thread?  Is cowboy's warranty and customer service as good as cobra's?

I find and read a lot about cobras, but not as much about cowboy machines. 

Again,  I am ignorant to all of this,  so i don't know what questions i should be asking,  so any advice is appreciated!  

Thank you, in advance! 

[Wizcrafts]

22 minutes ago, Saltysteele said:

Is there a benefit of the class 26 that would cause it to edge out the 3200 and its ability to use 346 thread?  Is cowboy's warranty and customer service as good as cobra's?

The Cobra Model 26 is an excellent medium-heavy duty walking foot machine that can handle a wide range of thread sizes from #46 up to #207. It can sew up to 7/16 inch, but may be stressed at that thickness in veg-tan leather. The Cowboy CB3200 is a heavier duty machine that handles sizes #138 through #346. It is a step up and sews up to 1/2 inch with less stress on the moving parts. The CB3500 and 4500 are very heavy duty machines capable of sewing 7/8 of an inch of dense leather with #138 through #415 thread. They will not be stressed out under that load.

I have a CB4500. It is great for anything over 8 ounces out of the box. Sewing below 8 ounces really calls for thinner thread, like #92. You can dumb down a CB4500, or equivalent by readjusting the tensions and using a narrow slotted throat plate, or aftermarket narrow throat plate and feed dog set. It got a set from Australia that lets the machine sew thin or softer leather with #92 thread (using a #19 or 20 needle). The only problem is that there aren't any leather point needles for it under a #23. So, the holes are round and the needles tend to squeak in dense leather.

[TJ959]

I had one experience in dealing with Cowboy Bob's business and I feel I was very fairly treated. I bought an old used Seiko machine but I looked over the Cowboy machines he had in stock. Looking back I wish I had bought a new machine that fit my needs. I have a tendency (obsession) to cheap out and unfortunately I continue to buy almost what I want but cheaper and much older. No experience with Cowboy machines but the dealer is knowledgeable and helpful. Can't hurt to talk to him some more and get those questions answered.

Kentwood. The place where old Singers go to die.

[TomE]

2 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

The only problem is that there aren't any leather point needles for it under a #23. So, the holes are round and the needles tend to squeak in dense leather.

I bought these #21 needles for my Class 4 but haven't yet tried them out.  https://leathermachineco.com/product/794-s-needles-size-21/  I read that these are newly restocked and haven't been available for some time.  @Patrick1 posted a video on FB recently showing a Class 4 sewing 2 oz deerskin with 92 thread and a #19 needle in system 794.  Not sure where he got the needle.

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by TomE

[dikman]

If you want to use heavy thread then you have no choice but to go for the heavy machine (441 class). The 3200 would have been a good choice - until you mentioned holsters, that is the tipping point.

[shoepatcher]

I would consider the Cowboy version of the 341 since Bob is so much closer than Steve.  Shipping has got to be less.

glenn

[Saltysteele]

Thank you for all the advice. 

I was surprised to learn about the cb341, it had totally slipped under the radar! 

In my minimal knowledge of the machines,  i would have expected the cb3200 to be more expensive.  It is heavy duty and the cb341 is medium duty, but the cb341 is 200 dollars more than the cb3200.

Is the cb341 machine a better design?   I don't foresee needing to go thicker than 3/8", but i don't want to drop that much cash and be limited on a multi-pocket messenger bag/tote/ doctor's bag.  I know i can always skyve, but....

I am not locked onto any machine yet,  i just have minimal understanding of the different machine styles.  I know they are all clones of much more expensive machines and adapted to leatherwork, but is the juki 341 a better designed machine,  just less heavy duty than the 441?

Push comes to shove, i could live with a max thread size of 207.  Holsters aren't that large, i could hand sew those.

Once again,  thank you for your advice and tolerance of my ignorance.  

[Burkhardt]

I went from the Chinese patcher to a 441 clone knowing that you're going to always sew something heavier so when pushing the machine (on a lighter model) to the limit and breaking something, I just got the biggest. If you've figured out the patcher then adjusting thread sizes tension wise you should understand the differences. The machines would ship on a pallet so not sure if the distance would be much of price difference. If you're that close I'd pick it up. Spending that kind of money on a machine get all of your Q's answered. You can see @CowboyBob is always on the forum helping answer peoples Q's and I'm sure he would answer anything you ask. 

[Saltysteele]

Yes,  every time with the test pieces to make sure the knot is centered in the material....  it's become second nature and normal to me.  The idea of having to do elsewise is foreign!   Haha     I would really appreciate being able to use both hands to manipulate the materal, as well!  Put a piece of oil tanned on it and it just wants to sit in one spot,  the foot has trouble moving the sticky stuff. 

It does well for what it is- a 100 dollar machine made in a dirty Chinese back ally with rudimentary tools and techniques.  

My wife is crafty and loves painting things.  She wants to participate in craft shows as an outlet for her hobby (instead of stockpiling completed projects in the basement).  I'd like to make some dog harnesses,  simple tote,  belts and other items with exposed stitching and join her.  I just can't bring myself to sell anything with exposed stitching that is so variable, however.    

I don't expect to become rich off this hobby,  but it would be nice to earn back the money I've paid on the tools and leather.  Which,  would give me more money to buy more leather!!  I really like buying leather! Haha

Edited January 18, 2023 by Saltysteele
Speeling

[Burkhardt]

@Wizcrafts has a really good write up on dumbing down the 441 sized machines to be able to use light thread and a few guys also sell the narrow feed dog for them to sew thinner/lighter materials. @RockyAussie has a informative explanation on how everything works.

 

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, Burkhardt said:

@Wizcrafts has a really good write up on dumbing down the 441 sized machines to be able to use light thread

Thanks for the plug! I wrote the article in 2019 and published it on my leatherworks website's blog. The article is here, titled Dumbing down a Cowboy CB4500, Cobra Class 4, or similar harness stitcher

When I wrote the article there weren't any aftermarket narrow feed dogs. So, I recommended using the narrow slotted flat throat plate. This system worked very well every time I applied it. The loss of the bottom feed was not that big of a deal on the thin work I was doing on my big machine. Folks owning a 441 clone who don't have aftermarket narrow feed dog/throat plate sets can use my system to dumb down their harness stitchers to sew thin work with thin thread. I used the system to hem jeans on my machine.

[Dwight]

On 1/17/2023 at 12:57 PM, Saltysteele said:

Looking for a machine.  Bags, wallets, holsters,  belts.  Hand sewing is tedious and not my thing, is holding me back. 

 

I didn't see where you considered a Tippmann Boss or one of it's clones . . . totally manual machine.

I have used one since 2000 . . . picked up a Cowboy 4500 a year ago . . . that old one armed bandit made a lot of money for me . . . as well as made a lot of products.

Looking at your list . . . it would fit very well for all of them . . . provided you are not sewing a lot of belts . . .  then it becomes a bit of a pain.  The rest are easy peasy for it.

Tippmann is right down the road from you in Ft. Wayne . . . and they'll treat you like family . . . 

May God bless,

Dwight

[Saltysteele]

Called CowboyBob last week and he had just recieved a cb3200 in, barely used with edge guide and set of single left and right feet.  At that time,  hadn't even been able to go through it. 

They went through it over the weekend,  so i drove down to toledo (3 hour trip down,  then 3 back) and picked it up today. 

SERIOUSLY nice machine!!