A Question of Measurement

[Gosut]

This is more curiosity than anything else. Stitching chisels seem to be marked in millimeters, so I set up my first project so that the stitching was divisible by the stitch distance. Tools such as hole punches seem to be marked in millimeters as well.  Now I'm drawing up a pattern for belt ends, from an old belt made in the US, and it's in International Inches. That's to be expected. Yet at the moment I'm wearing a belt made in Vietnam and the width and belt holes also seem laid out in International Inches. Was this because it was to be sold in the US, or is International Inches the norm in leatherworking? But if it's the norm, why are stitching chisels and hole punches in millimeters?

This is just curiosity, not to debate metric vs US Customary Measure. I can use either, so it's not an issue.

Thanks in advance.

[Danne]

45 minutes ago, Gosut said:

This is more curiosity than anything else. Stitching chisels seem to be marked in millimeters, so I set up my first project so that the stitching was divisible by the stitch distance. Tools such as hole punches seem to be marked in millimeters as well.  Now I'm drawing up a pattern for belt ends, from an old belt made in the US, and it's in International Inches. That's to be expected. Yet at the moment I'm wearing a belt made in Vietnam and the width and belt holes also seem laid out in International Inches. Was this because it was to be sold in the US, or is International Inches the norm in leatherworking? But if it's the norm, why are stitching chisels and hole punches in millimeters?

This is just curiosity, not to debate metric vs US Customary Measure. I can use either, so it's not an issue.

Thanks in advance.

I only have answer to this, I think it's because most of the world is metric, so hole punches in metric sizes will be more common. I guess there are imperial hole punch brands in US?

Stitching chisels are usually both in mm and spi (stitches/inch) As example, I do small leather goods, and have 3mm/9spi, 2.7mm/10spi, 2.45mm/11spi irons. 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Danne

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Gosut said:

This is more curiosity than anything else. Stitching chisels seem to be marked in millimeters, so I set up my first project so that the stitching was divisible by the stitch distance. Tools such as hole punches seem to be marked in millimeters as well.  Now I'm drawing up a pattern for belt ends, from an old belt made in the US, and it's in International Inches. That's to be expected. Yet at the moment I'm wearing a belt made in Vietnam and the width and belt holes also seem laid out in International Inches. Was this because it was to be sold in the US, or is International Inches the norm in leatherworking? But if it's the norm, why are stitching chisels and hole punches in millimeters?

This is just curiosity, not to debate metric vs US Customary Measure. I can use either, so it's not an issue.

Thanks in advance.

Another thing some chisels are measured tip to tip in mms while some others the gap between tines is measured in mms 

[DwightT]

17 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

Another thing some chisels are measured tip to tip in mms while some others the gap between tines is measured in mms 

And at the same time we talk about Stitches Per Inch.  Nothing like having a little consistency. 

    /dwight

[Gosut]

It was the dimensions of the belt made outside the US that had me wondering. Belt holes are spaced exactly 1 inch apart, and the width is exactly 1 7/16 inches. But the belt holes are 4mm. I would have anticipated the holes to be spaced 25mm apart and the width 36 or 37 mm.

[chuck123wapati]

12 hours ago, Gosut said:

It was the dimensions of the belt made outside the US that had me wondering. Belt holes are spaced exactly 1 inch apart, and the width is exactly 1 7/16 inches. But the belt holes are 4mm. I would have anticipated the holes to be spaced 25mm apart and the width 36 or 37 mm.

i use both while working on projects mm's are much easier to figure than fractions but then if you use older patterns and  most American made instruction books they are in inches so you have to adapt a bit to get something built. Its just the world we live in today lol.

[Doc Reaper]

Most belt widths that measure  2  -  1 1/2  -  1 1/4  -  and 1 inch were the old norm measures, some folks still use these.  Then industry stepped in and greed dictates that 1/16th of an inch (something not noticed)  to possibly give them an extra strap from the hide. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Doc Reaper
Fix grammer

[Dwight]

15 minutes ago, Doc Reaper said:

Most belt widths that measure  2  -  1 1/2  -  1 1/4  -  and 1 inch were the old norm measures, some folks still use these.  Then industry stepped in and greed dictates that 1/16th of an inch (something not noticed)  to possibly give them an extra strap from the hide. 

Actually . . . for my "1 1/2 inch" belts . . . they are actually 1 7/16 inches . . . because the cheap suckers running the pants industries the last few years . . . cut the length of the belt loops slightly.

Found a number of britches where a full 1 1/2 is a tad tight going thru . . . but the 1 7/16 slips thru . . . and the missing 1/16 of an inch will not appreciably weaken the belt or make it look out of place.

Bui that is just my way of doing things.

And don't get me started on the stupidity of the US moving to MM . . . the rest of the stinking world needed to change to suit our inches, feet, yards . . .  etc . . . or just get left out in the profit . . . but of course we let the politicians get involved . . . who with appropriate bribes . . . swung us the other way.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Gosut]

Revised my pattern tonight after going through my old belts and taking more measurements. I kept the belts on the off chance that I might could use the leather for something, though three are synthetic that didn't hold up and all but two are "genuine" leather than only held up a little better. Now I'm looking at the buckles and thinking "Parts!"

Today I stumbled across belts designed around millimeters. Now, I'm not adverse to using the metric system. I've used both it and Customary Units for decades. Since I'd already laid out the patterns in Customary Units, I kept those units.

 

[GrampaJoel]

It can get pretty frustrating with the two different measurement methods.

when I was doing horse gear,  belts, holsters and big ( in size) leather items,  I was satisfied when cutting it measuring the leather, if I was 1/4” close.
I used a stitch wheel and marked stitching points that way.
 What ever worked was fine. I then poked the holes with a stitching awe. I adjusted spacings as needed as I went.

A stitch 1/8”  extra in distance , didn’t seen to be a real life changer.  No big deal. 

These days I’m just doing real small items. Wallets and such.

 I use pricking irons that measure in the little tiny millimeters. The hardest thing I had to adjust to was changing my measuring system.
So now days, I measure when making my wallets,  in millimeters instead of inches. Oh, how I long for the stitching chisels to be made in standard measurements.
I also use a pair of magnifying glasses just to see the measurements. Real fine detail stuff,,, those silly millimeters.

of course my newest journey is getting all those little tiny stitches to come out straight.

on the other hand. As said above. It sure is easier than trying to add fractions or measuring in fractions.

but the truth is, on a belt I don’t think anyone would notice a belt hole off just one or two millimeters.

But someone  quite possibly might notice a belt hole off 1/8”.

As far as the difference thicknesses. It could be just a new or perhaps just an old die that did the cutting.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by GrampaJoel

[oltoot]

re belt widths: As far as I know (80 yrs old) To match a pant that said it had belt loops of 2" ,which were stitch line distance on belt loops so then -1/16 accounts for material thickness and would fit. IOW the thing which came first (in this case the pant) got to control the size issue. And I learned the craft in a saddle shop in Texas so no problems with metric system. Never used tools made outside US so never had to consider differences.