CFM chuck123wapati Posted March 8, 2023 CFM Report Posted March 8, 2023 14 minutes ago, Frodo said: So here are if stamps were invented to make the task easier and by being easier it lessens the value of that product then apples to apples when using a sewing machine as opposed to hand stitching It clearly takes more skill to hand stitch than using a machine so in that regard hand stitched items are worth more Does it take more skill to hand sew than machine sew? You learned to do both how was it for you? What if you lace instead of either? All variables in the quandary of pricing. Personally i think the learning curve is similar but hand-sewing is more personal. If your just wanting more money faster then you machine sew. If its an added "artistic" feature of your product or a seam that is actually impossible for a machine to sew then you hand sew right? In the business sense stamps, most any modern tools actually, were invented to make a profit , being able to turn out a product faster than by hand with less training of the employee = you can charge less and make more faster with out paying for a predetermined skill set. Embossing wheels came quickly next after stamps. But then the artistic ability of the product maker was lost somewhat to the stamp maker, totally to the embossing wheel maker. at what point do you differentiate in the cost of the products being sold? Is a hand tooled belt = to a stamped belt= to an embossed belt = to a...…. actually better? They all do one thing hold up your britches. Folks that just want a belt to hold up their britches don't buy from us they shop at Walmart. People buy from us for a different reason and that is what we put into our products that Walmart doesn't or cant. Can i sell my hand tooled belts for what Hand stitched could sell his stamped belt for? NO i cant my work simply is not even in the ball park, I couldn't sell my stamped work for the same either even if I did the exact same design. That's a personal ability and skill set thing that is a different discussion i think about selling stuff. Quote Worked in a prison for 30 years if I aint shiny every time I comment its no big deal, I just don't wave pompoms. “I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted, and I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” THE DUKE!
Members Gezzer Posted March 8, 2023 Members Report Posted March 8, 2023 Frodo has started me thinking ............................ Does design fall under " artistic " skill ? I know I have a check list that I try to go by . 1 Does it serve the purpose I had intended ? 2 Is it pleasing to the eye ( or at least not offensive ) ? 3 Is it done as simple and efficiently as possible while meeting #1 and 2 ? No carving , no stamping but maybe artfully done ? To me " art " is VERY subjective ! just 1 old mans views Quote
CFM Frodo Posted March 8, 2023 Author CFM Report Posted March 8, 2023 16 minutes ago, Gezzer said: Frodo has started me thinking ............................ Does design fall under " artistic " skill ? I know I have a check list that I try to go by . 1 Does it serve the purpose I had intended ? 2 Is it pleasing to the eye ( or at least not offensive ) ? 3 Is it done as simple and efficiently as possible while meeting #1 and 2 ? No carving , no stamping but maybe artfully done ? To me " art " is VERY subjective ! just 1 old mans views Simple. But very classy leather work Is Art. Quote Singer 66, Chi Chi Patcher, Rex 26-188, singer 29k62 , 2-needles D.C.F.M
CFM chuck123wapati Posted March 8, 2023 CFM Report Posted March 8, 2023 12 minutes ago, Frodo said: Simple. But very classy leather work Is Art. absolutely!!! or this? neither stamped nor tooled, done by hand pyrography, took the pic, edited it to fit, scanned the transfer, is it better or worth more than a lasered picture, copied off the net and programmed in? is it art? would the lasered one be art even though human hands never touched it? Quote Worked in a prison for 30 years if I aint shiny every time I comment its no big deal, I just don't wave pompoms. “I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted, and I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” THE DUKE!
Members Tugadude Posted March 8, 2023 Members Report Posted March 8, 2023 Art means different things to different people. Here's one dictionary definition: the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power. the various branches of creative activity, such as painting, music, literature, and dance. Leatherwork CAN be art, but personally I don't view all leatherwork as art. If I did, then the Chinese wallets I see in stores for a couple of bucks would have to be considered art. They are leatherwork, such as it is. They aren't art. Quote
Members Mulesaw Posted March 8, 2023 Members Report Posted March 8, 2023 Interesting discussion. I think that both stamping and carving could be considered art. But the entry level and learning curve aren't the same for the two, and also the carving could be said to go higher than the stamping. But as someone earlier said, carving needs stamping too, in order to release the full potential of the picture. I am not very good at any of them, but when I help some kids making a belt, I show them a bit of stamping, and that immediately appeals to them because the results are instantaneous and pretty good regardless of your previous skillset. Some have made star constellations using the tip of a Philips screw driver, that looks just like a small star on leather. And if the creator is happy and the recipient of the work is happy, then all is OK by me. On a side note, it is a pleasure that it is possible to have a civilized discussion even on a subject such as this with strong emotions. Quote
Members Tugadude Posted March 8, 2023 Members Report Posted March 8, 2023 8 minutes ago, Mulesaw said: On a side note, it is a pleasure that it is possible to have a civilized discussion even on a subject such as this with strong emotions. Amen to that brother! Quote
CFM chuck123wapati Posted March 8, 2023 CFM Report Posted March 8, 2023 35 minutes ago, Mulesaw said: Interesting discussion. I think that both stamping and carving could be considered art. But the entry level and learning curve aren't the same for the two, and also the carving could be said to go higher than the stamping. But as someone earlier said, carving needs stamping too, in order to release the full potential of the picture. I am not very good at any of them, but when I help some kids making a belt, I show them a bit of stamping, and that immediately appeals to them because the results are instantaneous and pretty good regardless of your previous skillset. Some have made star constellations using the tip of a Philips screw driver, that looks just like a small star on leather. And if the creator is happy and the recipient of the work is happy, then all is OK by me. On a side note, it is a pleasure that it is possible to have a civilized discussion even on a subject such as this with strong emotions. 26 minutes ago, Tugadude said: Amen to that brother! Me too, I love a good discussion anytime, especially with such a diverse bunch of folks. There are no wrong answers to the question really just different ways of looking at things. That's what human interaction is all about, expanding yourself through your experiences with different views. Quote Worked in a prison for 30 years if I aint shiny every time I comment its no big deal, I just don't wave pompoms. “I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted, and I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” THE DUKE!
RockyAussie Posted March 8, 2023 Report Posted March 8, 2023 6 hours ago, Gezzer said: Frodo has started me thinking ............................ Does design fall under " artistic " skill ? I know I have a check list that I try to go by . 1 Does it serve the purpose I had intended ? 2 Is it pleasing to the eye ( or at least not offensive ) ? 3 Is it done as simple and efficiently as possible while meeting #1 and 2 ? No carving , no stamping but maybe artfully done ? To me " art " is VERY subjective ! just 1 old mans views Is that fob attached to the belt keeper? How is this so done? That to me is artistic Quote Wild Harry - Australian made leather goodsYouTube Channel Instagram
Members mooreleatherworking Posted March 8, 2023 Members Report Posted March 8, 2023 17 hours ago, Frodo said: A can of worms has been opened and it is a subject that needs to be discussed carving leather vs stamping leather basically my question is Are they artistically equal in skills ? Artistic equality is for the critics. To an artist there is no such concept. Quote
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