How Much???

[RedCliffsLeatherwork]

I know this is the same age-old question of how to price your leather goods, but I want to get your guy's opinion to get me in the ballpark. Each takes me about 8-10hrs to complete. They are all hand tooled, stitched, and made with all genuine leather. 

I'd love to know what you would price these at. What would you consider a fair price?

Thanks

Kenner

[BlackDragon]

I went to a retail western wear shop yesterday to see what the going price was for leather goods; wallets, purses, belts, etc. For a bifold wallet with some embossed/stamped images they were asking $50. Mind you these wallets weren't all leather. Their pockets had leather when you just look at the surface but once you pulled it opened you could see just a liner. 

I would say these wallets were no better than the W-mart wallets but they were a name brand. Dont remember the name but my brother in law said it was a rodeo rider (Cody somebody).

With all that said I price my plain leather bifolds starting at $60 and my plain roper wallets start at $75. Start adding tooling, exotic skin, etc and you have to decide what your time is worth and what the target customers are willing to pay.

[Mulesaw]

I go pretty strict by the hourly rate x time spent.

But with an allowance if I consider the job leather work or more general work. 

So for me the price would most likely be 8 x 350 = DKK 2800,-  + 25 % VAT = total DKK 3500 (~ 500 US$)

I reckon I wouldn't sell any but I have decided that I won't work for free, and a lot of people will easily spend a ridiculous amount of money on other stuff, so something that is hand made an good looking should be cheap.

When / if people complain about prices I normally compare my prices to a pizza or a cup of coffee at a café. A coffee is easily 6-7 $ and a pizza 12-15$ for a regular pizza. People won't think twice before forking out money for a couple of lattes at a café, and if a job takes 8 hours for me to do - it represents an entire working day, so it should be paid like that.

 

[Samalan]

Hate to say it friend but things like that have what's called a perceived value not fun to hear but it's true. It would be best if you created something that that's new or unique unfortunately your wallet is neither let's say your shop price is $25.00 dollars an hour x 10 hours labor = $250.00 your wallet has a perceived value of $50.00 that makes your wallet very hard to sell. In my younger days, I was a custom furniture and cabinet maker a decorator came it my shop he wanted a price for a bathroom vanity he showed me his drawing which had a lot of unique things about it I told him I would get back to him. Now, this vanity was only three feet long with a banjo top over the toilet. The next day I gave him a price of $3,500.00 dollars He said wow that seems like a lot of money I said it Is because that's a lot of vanity he said he could get a vanity at home depot for $300.00  I said ok that's good for them $3,500.00 is my price. He bought the vanity from me for $3,500.00 plus installation. The design of his vanity made it so unique it was worth $3,500.00 and he knew it. My advice to you is always getting what you need to get don't work for anything less. One thing I would tell people who wanted things cheaper is if I don't get all the money how can I do a good job for you? 

[fredk]

$125 minimum to $150/$160

[Tugadude]

Samalan makes a lot of good points.  In the OP's post he got specific and asked how much a FAIR price would be.  I doubt it is achievable except under one condition and that is a commissioned or bespoke item.  In other words, the buyer knows up front what they can expect to pay for that amount of work.  You might even have a "schedule" like some of the custom bicycle manufacturers have, where they list a number of options along with their prices.  The buyer then determines for themselves how much the bike is going to cost, more or less.

 

Basically what I'm saying is the average customer looking for a wallet will never pay what it is actually worth when you figure in the amount of hours you've invested.  But someone looking specifically for the characteristics of same just might.  

 

As far as the "schedule" I mentioned, or menu, you can offer plain versus tooled, stitched versus laced, for example.  List colors of leather, grades and/or types of leather and colors of thread and lace.  Make them a part of the process and to me it helps justify the price in their own mind because they've had a hand in designing it so to speak.  And now they understand that some things cost more than others. 

An educated consumer is your best customer.

[doubleh]

Even at $150 you are working for basically McDonald burger flipper wages. Not much for something that requires some skills and why I quit doing anything but hobby leatherwork. 

[JLSleather]

I haven't done them lately, but I do base price on complexity.  Some of those patterns - from STohlman's 'Top 20' book - I sold at $150-250 depending on 'stuff', such as custom coloring, etc.

[Simplejack1985]

I charge 100 for a 6 x card pocket wallet in dublin. 150 for the same wallet in Italian veg tan. If I carve that same wallet I want 350 bucks. My time is not replaceable. Plus I don't use cheap shit.

[chuck123wapati]

to answer your question how long did it take, where you selling, how good is your work?

You wont get top dollar at the local flea market period. 

us bureau of labor stats says  the mean wage for leather workers is $14.70 an hour. Is your work above average to OTHER people? A person can slap any number on something and say its worth it but the reality is will someone buy it at that price.

 I've worked flat rate before as a mechanic, if a brake job for example job takes two hours you get two hours pay no matter how long it takes. in leather terms a wallet may take a fast tooler two hours but me it takes three how ethical is it to charge more for my time because I'm slower? Being slower and less trained my time is worth less not more i cant charge people wont pay 20 an hour if I'm not worth it.

[Doc Reaper]

This is the shhtuff I hate reading about! If a skrawny, flat chested, ugly as hell hooker went by perceived value the poor girl would starve to death. In the same profession is a Barbara Eden lookalike call girl. She also uses the perceived value method. But not for her - she sets the price by going off the telltale signs of her clients wealth and looks which determine her bottom price (pun intended). 
 

China and Walmart have contributed to the “perceived cost” by pumping out cheap manmade materials that do not hold up past a certain time frame. Folks that shop at “Wally World” do not spend time in the better retail shops. Rarely do these folks step outside their own habits of comfort. 
I charge a minimum base price for what I make. It’s usually materials plus labor. I have been doing Leather for 52 years and that “it’s cheap cause it’s handmade” is ignorance trying to get something for nothing. Put a price on it that is worth your efforts. The fence jumping illegals will cut their own throats to get a sale. Keep a firm backbone when it comes to pricing your handmade items. The cut throats will force themselves into a new job and you will still be here with awesome merchandise that is well made and durable for hard work.

That MEAN WAGE is antiquated by todays standards. (Sorry Chuck123) that MEAN WAGE is what is equivalent to average of low end hobby compensation to high end quality craftsmanship. Only a cheapskate would resort to using skewed numbers to have you pry a penny from their fingers. There is a difference between hobbyist and professional!

Set this in stone -  material cost + labor = cost. True a flea market won’t bring top dollar but the people at the flea market are looking for USED items with life left in them, new is new and quality is sought after no matter if it’s at a flea market or a department store of a garage sale. I have a both at a flea market. I sell biker leather and custom leather. Folks know the difference when they want a special design that can’t be purchased anywhere else. I have seen 3 other leather shops close at the same flea  market that I’m at. They closed because of their cut throat practices which are fuled by selfishness and greed. Another vendor started selling belts and tried to undersell me, it took them 3 months to fold up shop and leave. They forgot to do the correct math. Materials + labor + lot rent + travel cost + and employee hourly wage

there is a song that states “it cost so much because it takes me effin hours!” And if you sell at an unsatisfactory price you only hurt yourself! Cost of 
materials plus an hourly fair wage for yourself.

[Samalan]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

 a wallet may take a fast tooler two hours but me it takes three how ethical is it to charge more for my time because I'm slower?

This is artwork yes it took me three times as long but my artwork is 100 times more desirable. You can't compare artwork to brake work. Being the artist you are I'm surprised at the comparison.

[Samalan]

At the tattoo shop bill gets three times more than John for the very same line drawing.

[Rubicon04]

I charge $150 for a typical bifold wallet with no carving done. I've never messed with carving. My thoughts are the average buyer is going to be blown away by the prices we charge for a wallet and in reality they are not your audience. The person who you are trying to sell to typical knows what they want already and knows what to expect for a handmade item when it comes to cost. 

[BigBore]

Such a tough topic to agree on and I think ultimately you'll have to find your balance between cost to produce and what your specific clientele will pay.

I always start my pricing strategy with this formula.  (Cost of materials + labor) x 1.25% (profit).  So if my materials cost me 50 and it took me two hours (pay myself $20/hour), then my base is $90.  Add in 25% profit and my minimum to charge is $112.50.  From there I can adjust as needed and I can also tell immediately if this specific item is something I want to dive into as a permanent listing.  Meaning, if $112.50 is what I need to charge for something to keep all metrics happy, but the market says it's a $25 item, then I scrap the idea and move on.

Good luck!

[fredk]

In my area miniumum wage for my age is about £11 per hour ($12.50?) but I usually work for about £1 a day,    

4 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

. . . 

 I've worked flat rate before as a mechanic, if a brake job for example job takes two hours you get two hours pay no matter how long it takes. in leather terms a wallet may take a fast tooler two hours but me it takes three how ethical is it to charge more for my time because I'm slower? Being slower and less trained my time is worth less not more i cant charge people wont pay 20 an hour if I'm not worth it.

Recently my #1 son took in a car for a certain type of service. Based on previous jobs he gave the customer a hard quote. Job should have taken 2 mechs 1.5 days but they and #1 worked on the job for 5 days. They ran into problems they don't usually get. But #1 stuck to his price

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, Samalan said:

This is artwork yes it took me three times as long but my artwork is 100 times more desirable. You can't compare artwork to brake work. Being the artist you are I'm surprised at the comparison.

i agree 100 %  with your statement but I wasn't exactly comparing brake work and art work i was asking why a slower tooler given the same artistic ability would charge more because he cant tool as fast as the next guy. 

[fredk]

3 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

i agree 100 %  with your statement but I wasn't exactly comparing brake work and art work i was asking why a slower tooler given the same artistic ability would charge more because he cant tool as fast as the next guy. 

Thats why in certain professions the fully qualified practioner charges more than the new guy or apprentice. But it all comes out in the wash; eg pro charges $50 per hour and takes 4 hours, apprentice takes 8 hours but can only charge $25 per hour. I used to see it in my accountants bills; the Fully Charted Accountant charged more but took less time than his assistant whose cost was less per hour, but at the end the cost was very nearly the same

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, Samalan said:

At the tattoo shop bill gets three times more than John for the very same line drawing.

i know my daughter is one lol and I'm very proud!! https://twisteddelusionsink.com/ it took a few years.

[Klara]

11 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

i agree 100 %  with your statement but I wasn't exactly comparing brake work and art work i was asking why a slower tooler given the same artistic ability would charge more because he cant tool as fast as the next guy. 

That's the reason why translators charged by line where I trained. The newbies would take longer, the experienced ones would work faster and make a better living, but the customer would pay the same. 

[chrisash]

It's not how its made or what its made from 

Its all about marketing the company, No top end handbag is worth £3-4000 in top London brands plastered with makers log, they are brought for 2 reasons, one to show off to other women that they can afford, and have done so to other women, and 2nd because the name is famous after the company spent millions building up that name/brand

So my question is how well known is your brand and how much time and money do you spend on marketing the fact you hand make your items out of high quality material that demands a high price,Building a brand takes time and money and not just making a mark on the item

 

 

[chuck123wapati]

4 hours ago, Klara said:

That's the reason why translators charged by line where I trained. The newbies would take longer, the experienced ones would work faster and make a better living, but the customer would pay the same. 

i understand that but i was talking all things even, wages included. 

16 hours ago, fredk said:

Thats why in certain professions the fully qualified practioner charges more than the new guy or apprentice. But it all comes out in the wash; eg pro charges $50 per hour and takes 4 hours, apprentice takes 8 hours but can only charge $25 per hour. I used to see it in my accountants bills; the Fully Charted Accountant charged more but took less time than his assistant whose cost was less per hour, but at the end the cost was very nearly the same

i understand that but i was talking all things even, wages included. 

[Tugadude]

16 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

i know my daughter is one lol and I'm very proud!! https://twisteddelusionsink.com/ it took a few years.

I like how she also offers embroidery services, so with tattoos, piercings and embroidery there's enough diversification to hopefully keep her business steady.  One of the toughest things for any business is cash flow, so having more things to sell certainly helps.

[Tugadude]

4 hours ago, chrisash said:

It's not how its made or what its made from 

Its all about marketing the company, No top end handbag is worth £3-4000 in top London brands plastered with makers log, they are brought for 2 reasons, one to show off to other women that they can afford, and have done so to other women, and 2nd because the name is famous after the company spent millions building up that name/brand

So my question is how well known is your brand and how much time and money do you spend on marketing the fact you hand make your items out of high quality material that demands a high price,Building a brand takes time and money and not just making a mark on the item

 

 

This is so true.  I've seen (keeping it in the leatherwork realm) wallets and such from some well known brands which aren't even close to being as good as their price would indicate.  And yet they sell them like hotcakes because of the brand.  So yes, brand definitely comes into play.  Add an embroidered dude riding a polo pony to the shirt and suddenly a $30 dress shirt doubles in price.  Much better can be had for less sans logo.  

It would be interesting to hear from some of the members here who have developed brands.  There are several that immediately come to mind.  RockyAussie is one that has a great brand name and a nice website.  I'd say he found a niche and is using that to his advantage.  https://wildharry.com.au/  What a great name for a brand.  I'm sure an extension of the owner himself.

I'm guessing that once a brand is established, a certain percentage of customers become regulars and come back regularly to collect more and more product.  Repeat business is obviously a good indicator that you're doing something right.

[Handstitched]

3 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

a certain percentage of customers become regulars and come back regularly to collect more and more product.  Repeat business is obviously a good indicator that you're doing something right.

Well, after 18 years (  this April)   , I must be doing  something right   

I think this is one of those discussions that will keep going..and going 

HS