Artisan Toro 3200 PED 500 vs Cobra Class 4

[apexcustomleather]

Hi everyone!  I am looking at buying an Artisan Toro 3200 PED 500 or Cobra Class 4. Which would you recommend for chaps, tack, and holsters?

[shoepatcher]

Ccwboy Class 4.

glenn

[Wizcrafts]

44 minutes ago, shoepatcher said:

Ccwboy Class 4.

glenn

Hey Glenn, that's a Cobra Class 4. The Cowboy equivalent is a model CB4500. That's what I have.

[DonInReno]

I have an Artisan 3200 that’s a slightly older model without the built in bobbin winder.  At times it’s confused with the Cowboy 3200, but the Artisan is essentially a short armed (about 8” shorter) equivalent of either the full size class 4 or Cowboy 4500.   The short arm does make a difference and just turning the smallest of items would be easier with a longer arm.  As a full size 441 clone it accepts the same feet and accessories.

My machine functions well and I have no complaints about fit and finish or how it sews.

The stand is quite similar to other stand up stands - no better, no worse.   Personally I think the 3/8” steel plate that serves as the base on any of these is thin enough that it’s not as solid feeling as it could be, but as I said they are all the same.   I would upgrade it to 1/2” or even 5/8”.

It will function without a speed reducer, but it’s very nice to have one.   At least the new one that came up in a quick google search didn’t come with a reducer, which I think is a mistake.   The new servo motor they are using has a good track record, and the long flexible led light is one of the best out there.

The bad news is management at Artisan doesn’t seem to give two sh*ts about…

…well, there have been issues…

…let me rephrase that in a positive way.  Cowboy and Cobra are more supportive, with Cowboy at the top of the list here.  It’s nice supporting companies that provide support for this site and are often here providing advice.   If I was in the market for a new full size 441 clone I’d get the Cowboy.

 

[dikman]

Just get the 441, Cowboy or Cobra, either will be fine for what you want to sew. Two of the members on here make a modified needle plate/feed dog replacement which significantly increases the versatility of the machine if you want to sew lighter material (within reason, of course). It's a worthwhile addition.

[Handstitched]

 I've had my 441 clone since 2005 , and it goes very well, touchwood    I got it from ' Q stitch' in Queensland. 

HS

[kgg]

23 hours ago, apexcustomleather said:

Which would you recommend for chaps, tack, and holsters?

Both machines share basically the same sewing ability and seem to be able to accommodate the same accessories but:

i) The main difference of the new Artisan, if I'm not mistaken, it has a 12" arm while the Cobra has a 16.5" which is the size the Juki TSC-441 that the clones have copied. Certain parts for odd size arms may down the road become a problem. 

ii) The next difference how torque is achieved. The Artisan gets it torque by increasing the size of the hand-wheel while the Cobra has speed reducer mounted under the table.

iii) Foot peddle operation of the Artisan is done by mounting the motors power sending unit directly to the foot peddle which in my opinion is a location more prone to getting damaged. The Cobra uses a more standard arrangement.

iv) Speed control and motor electronics as well as the motor are mounted to the top of the table top while the Cobra uses the standard configuration of under the table mounting.

On thin / soft items either machine would have to be dumbed down or require the installation of a modified needle plate/feed dog as previously mentioned by @dikman.

kgg

[nylonRigging]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

Both machines share basically the same sewing ability and seem to be able to accommodate the same accessories but:

i) The main difference of the new Artisan, if I'm not mistaken, it has a 12" arm while the Cobra has a 16.5" which is the size the Juki TSC-441 that the clones have copied. Certain parts for odd size arms may down the road become a problem. 

ii) The next difference how torque is achieved. The Artisan gets it torque by increasing the size of the hand-wheel while the Cobra has speed reducer mounted under the table.

iii) Foot peddle operation of the Artisan is done by mounting the motors power sending unit directly to the foot peddle which in my opinion is a location more prone to getting damaged. The Cobra uses a more standard arrangement.

iv) Speed control and motor electronics as well as the motor are mounted to the top of the table top while the Cobra uses the standard configuration of under the table mounting.

On thin / soft items either machine would have to be dumbed down or require the installation of a modified needle plate/feed dog as previously mentioned by @dikman.

kgg

I put a lot of hours on one of them over last few years, I got one of the Artisan 3200 sitting in back of sew room, and it just kept setup seam binding 1" type ll nylon on heavy bags for it's life.
The Artisan 3200 is basically shorter arm 441 clone . work area of ( 12.5  long x 8" high ) . It has a large 12" hand-wheel w/ 10" pulley . Has under table speed reduction, and also a pretty decent servo drive.

Artisan 3200, It would be great machine for smaller goods like holsters, small bag/wallets. but for bigger items, 16" arm would make your jobs easier with lot less folding or rolling up items you are trying to turn .

here a crappy quick pic.

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Edited June 26, 2023 by nylonRigging

[dikman]

As kgg said the model they're selling now has the motor mounted on the top of the table and fitting a speed reducer is going to take a fair bit of work!

[shoepatcher]

21 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Hey Glenn, that's a Cobra Class 4. The Cowboy equivalent is a model CB4500. That's what I have.

Yep  Sorry about that Wiz.

[nylonRigging]

10 hours ago, dikman said:

As kgg said the model they're selling now has the motor mounted on the top of the table and fitting a speed reducer is going to take a fair bit of work!

AHhh, i see what saying now . I just looked at  Artisan  Website . I have not paid much attention to their machine sales for last few years . Looks like they did do a change with their 3200 Drive going in a different design direction. Rather than traditional under table drive w/gear reduction . I would be curious to actually see with my own eyes the drive system they chose, and what kind of control and torque it has. The drive motors they choose to use on different models I have seen and sewn on seem to be good runners.

 I seen a lot Artisan branded machines being here on US. West coast . 3 out of the 10 machines I have set-up and sewing on are Artisan branded. I think their Brand saturation higher in this area of W. USA. as they import straight into Bay area California, and sales based there. The Interstate Hwy. I-5 corridor on shipping is convenient into CA. OR. and Washington States .
.

[dikman]

I wonder if shifting the motor to the top of the table is a marketing ploy, just to make them different? The idea works, as I have done it on a couple of machines (and fitted a speed reducer on top as well!) but in this case there's no room for a reducer on top. Plus, as kgg pointed out, the speed control mounted on the bottom could be susceptible to being kicked/knocked.

Personally, I prefer the more "conventional" system, it also makes it easier for tinkering with.