Mineral oil bad for leather? Or good? Or neutral?

[SUP]

After all the fuss so many make about mineral oils being bad for leather,  in my experiment at least, ,up to this point, mineral oil seems to have the best effect on leathers. Good. It's cheap, no odor, non-poisonous and abundantly available.

I will continue this experiment but will certainly use it in my leather preparations without needing to wonder about its safety or efficacy any more. 

[SUP]

13 hours ago, fredk said:

Good report

I'll need to one now

Thank you @fredk. No hurry. This should be fun, not a chore.

[deboardp]

leather conditioner.odtThis is an awesome and interesting experiment, and I appreciate the care everyone is putting into it. I myself want to make my own leather conditioner. I do have a bit of a bias, based primarily on a secondary source, a report by Austin Black of Wales, who was trained in the UK in saddlery trade school. The report is in a thread I started recently on the topic of DIY leather conditioners. He goes into detail how he applies his conditioner, which is something the experiment here ignores. 

About NFO, which it seems every contributor to this thread uses and lives, he says to avoid, and he explains why, which is that it leads to the oxidation (decay) of leather on a molecular level.  Which brings me to another procedure deficiency of this experiment, which is, what are the criteria for determining the effects of the conditioners being tested? Are they simply what can be experienced with the senses of sight, smell, and touch? I did not see a concern by anyone with the effects of the conditioners on the fibers of the leather on a cellular level. My understanding from reading secondary sources and from personal experience of making multiple hundreds of pairs of leather sandals over 50 years ago is that conditioners make leather supple and more readily conformable to the human foot.

I have no idea how we can test the effects of conditioners on the actual fibers of leather, unless we start using microscopes and very sharp knives to cut slide samples, before and after samples. The effects to the fibers seems quite important to me, because we want the fibers to be free to slide along side each other, at least for sandals that seems important. A flexible sandal rather than a stiff one seems more comfortable in theory. Maybe a saddle needs to be stiffer?

Finally, another concern I have is that there seems to be a consensus amongst most, if not all, experiment participants that the way to condition leathers is to oil them rather than to stuff them with fats and waxes. Maybe I need more sources of information, but from the Austin Black report, the UK saddle industry has historically not used any oils at all to condition their saddles, except for cod liver oil, but then only after the leather has been thoroughly stuffed with fats and waxes from their paste conditioner. The cod liver oil is not absorbed by the leather because it is stuffed already. The cod oil treats the surface and somehow restores the smell of leather to the leather. How that works is a mystery to me. I'll attach his brief two page report here, which he posted on leatherworker.net a long time ago. 

I wonder if we can put the thread I started in the same sub forum as this one?

What happened to all the test results? It seems folks moved on to other things after December 10... oh, the holidays...

Edited December 29, 2023 by deboardp
Spelling

[deboardp]

The difference between using oils as opposed to fats and waxes paste is elbow grease. The report walks through how vegetable tanned leather can be stuffed by the craftsman, and it is labor intensive, and messy. My intuition tells me stuffing fats and waxes is better than oiling, but it would require adding a stuffing concoction to the experiment and buying a microscope, to expand the effects determination. 

[fredk]

I have not made a report due to certain technological issues

[SUP]

@fredk It is perfectly fine if you have not been able to post for a while. Life happens and this is not a job or something that is so strictly time-based. It is a simple experiment that will go on for years.

@deboardp This is a casual experiment by people who are not in a laboratory or full-time professionals in the leather industry, to think about microscopic results and other matters.  Like all experiments, people coming and going do not affect the results. I dare say if I drop dead tomorrow, Fred will certainly continue or others might take up the baton. Who knows?

if you read the entire thread, you will see that we are trying to answer the simple question of whether mineral oil is good or bad for leather, and about other oils as well. It is not about the complete preservation of leather professionally. Knowing one oil is good or not-so-good might influence a reader's decision to use or not use that oil, either alone or with other additives like waxes, oils and other chemicals. Nowhere do I or anyone else here, from what I have read so far, think that oils are the only way to take care of leather.

We are talking about caring for our leather items long term, not just the leatherworkers but the customers as well, so that when they decide to buy any products for caring for their leather, they can have an idea about the oils in those products and whether they want to use them or not. Maybe one day I or someone else will test different waxes and solid fats in a similar way.

Frankly, I hear 'experts' speaking everywhere, always, always anecdotal, because preservation takes decades. We don't know how things were used over decades, what else was done to those leathers, and so much more that we don't know. So depending on what people say, seems to me, to be a bit disingenuous.

From what I have read, from you and everyone else on this forum, it appears, at least to me, that what is used on leather differs depending on the part of the world the persons are from. People have always used what is available to them. Naturally what is used in the US is different from what is used in the far East as is different from what has been traditionally used in Europe and so on. Frankly, it appears to me that post-tanning, oil and wax stuffing is done to replace the  fats lost during tanning and once the leather is ready and sold to leather workers, most often, it just needs care and conditioning. For that, people swear by so many different oils and waxes. From Neatsfoot oil to Mink oil to beeswax to tallow to cod liver oil and so on. If all those work well for people in different parts of the world over the years, the only thing they have in common is that they are all some form of lipids. Anything that prevents dehydration should work, I should think. Of course, that is just common sense speaking. I dare say there will be a scientist out there spending hundreds of thousands to finally come to the same conclusion. Of course, we also have the ''smart people' who read everything on the net and come to their own conclusions - no idea whose beliefs they decide to use. 

Everywhere I hear anecdotal evidence of why something is good or bad for leather, always someone else who is an expert, who of course has similar anecdotal evidence or has examined ancient leather supposedly preserved with the item in question, and little else known about how it was cared for, treated, etc. Now if someone who is 90-100 years old came up and said he was oiling or preserving leather with preservative A for the last 80 years and has cared for it very well, with evidence, and then says preservative A is horrible,  I might believe. Other 'evidences'? I prefer to reserve judgment.

That is, in fact, why we decided to do this simple experiment of whether specific oils are good or bad for leather. And I am sure you know that the best experiments are always those which answer simple questions - 'Do  specific oils damage leather, help them or are neutral?" versus  a very generalized "How best to preserve leather items long term" - which would be the worst type of question any one could ask and try to answer, scientifically, in one step!!

Incidentally, I make my own leather conditioner, leather preservative and blade wax, all of which I make after quite a bit of research and experimentation. However, knowing that people have different ideas and beliefs, and not wanting in any way to appear like a superior know-it-all, since it is only recently that I started leatherworking, I have not and will probably not put up those recipes here. Suffice to say, they do contain most of the items popularly used. 

To put what we are doing scientifically, the Aim of this experiment is: To determine whether Mineral oil is good, bad or neutral on leather, specifically veg tanned leather and the effects of other oils as well, in comparison. 

The procedure : We, whoever contributes here, used specific oils we have with us, applied specific amounts on specific sized pieces  of the same veg-tanned leather side and kept identical pieces under different conditions to see how the leather responded to those different conditions. We, of course, have controls as well.

The Conclusions? The final one will be a long time coming but currently I have discovered that short term at least, mineral oil is the most useful. You can read about it in an earlier part of this thread.

Now, if you would like to get a microscope and sufficient leather to wax and then slice and check the effects of different waxes periodically,  you are welcome to join us. As I always say, The more the merrier. 

Of course, you will need a really large piece of leather, probably an entire side per type of wax,  because this experiment should go on for decades to be useful and, each time,  you will need vertical and horizontal sections to be really informative. 

Welcome to the experiment, in advance.

 

[deboardp]

I'm near end of life, so I won't be buying a microscope to study cross-sections. I was wondering though why the experiments are centered on oils and not fats? I have heard that saddle makers use saddler's grease to condition their saddles, or maybe it's their customers who do that. Grease is like concentrated fat. It's rubbed in with bare hands to produce heat, with the leather being wet with warm water first, to facilitate the fat/wax/tallow/lanolin movement along the fibers, to keep the leather flexible. It seems like a basic principle to me, to do that. I might be in the wrong topic thread. I'm trying to find out the best leather conditioner, and as you mentioned, this one to find out if mineral oil is harmful or not. Sorry!

[chuck123wapati]

mine are still hanging in the green house all doing fine, BTW i did use Tallow on one of mine Deer if I remember right. a good bit of bending will test the fibers which i do also no need for a microscope.

[SUP]

@chuck123wapati that's great. I will do that bending test too. Thank you. I'm always learning something new. 

@deboardp a good number of us here are older too. So  I doubt I will live long enough to get the type of results that will truly help here though I do hope I can pass it on to continue. But if you like, you can do something without having to resort to microscopes and such detailed research. You could just get a few pieces of scrap and use whatever waxes or fats you have on hand and think would be suitable and see what happens, like we are doing with oils. You can use the same items as others have used - no reason why only one person has to test it.

About leather conditioners, Have you tried making your own? You have so many years of experience and must have used different ones.  You will be aware of what works and what does not work. That is how I ended up making my own. Reading the ingredients in most store-bought ones, I did not know most of them. So I read up and mixed my own and they are good enough for me - my blade wax is so protective that when I get out a stored knife and want to get it ready for use, it is a chore getting the wax off. But that tells me it is well protected as well.  If a newbie like me can do that, I am sure a person with so much of experience can certainly do better. Do give it a try. if you discuss it here, there will be many who will give you suggestions and help you along if you need, as I'm sure you know.

I know I would and I'm sure many others too would benefit from your experience. That how knowledge is passed on, isn't it?

Coming to your question on why the experiments are centered on oils, the question started with my wondering why so many say mineral oil is bad for leather. Everyone always says it is bad, companies selling leather-care products the most. But there is no real evidence of this. The question then spread to other oils as well - people said olive oil stayed good for thousands of years - this was in sealed bottles - in open ones it would have long turned rancid and thick, but this is not realized. Same with other oils. So  the idea of this experiment just slowly built up. It was always about oils. So we worked with oils. But waxes are a good idea and maybe I will test some waxes as well.  It will just be a few additional pieces and give a lot of information. Thank you for that.

[deboardp]

50 minutes ago, SUP said:

@chuck123wapati that's great. I will do that bending test too. Thank you. I'm always learning something new. 

@deboardp a good number of us here are older too. So  I doubt I will live long enough to get the type of results that will truly help here though I do hope I can pass it on to continue. But if you like, you can do something without having to resort to microscopes and such detailed research. You could just get a few pieces of scrap and use whatever waxes or fats you have on hand and think would be suitable and see what happens, like we are doing with oils. You can use the same items as others have used - no reason why only one person has to test it.

About leather conditioners, Have you tried making your own? You have so many years of experience and must have used different ones.  You will be aware of what works and what does not work. That is how I ended up making my own. Reading the ingredients in most store-bought ones, I did not know most of them. So I read up and mixed my own and they are good enough for me - my blade wax is so protective that when I get out a stored knife and want to get it ready for use, it is a chore getting the wax off. But that tells me it is well protected as well.  If a newbie like me can do that, I am sure a person with so much of experience can certainly do better. Do give it a try. if you discuss it here, there will be many who will give you suggestions and help you along if you need, as I'm sure you know.

I know I would and I'm sure many others too would benefit from your experience. That how knowledge is passed on, isn't it?

Coming to your question on why the experiments are centered on oils, the question started with my wondering why so many say mineral oil is bad for leather. Everyone always says it is bad, companies selling leather-care products the most. But there is no real evidence of this. The question then spread to other oils as well - people said olive oil stayed good for thousands of years - this was in sealed bottles - in open ones it would have long turned rancid and thick, but this is not realized. Same with other oils. So  the idea of this experiment just slowly built up. It was always about oils. So we worked with oils. But waxes are a good idea and maybe I will test some waxes as well.  It will just be a few additional pieces and give a lot of information. Thank you for that.

I'm a disabled Vietnam combat vet, have had 2 strokes and 2 heart attacks and have heart failure so sometimes I'm a bumbling idiot. I don't know how I got involved with this thread. I'm just trying to make my own leather conditioner and somehow thought this thread was about that. Traditional English saddler's grease uses fats and waxes so i was wondering why everyone was checking out all these different oils and how they affect leather. I was just in the wrong thread. I have only about five years of experience in leather work, predominantly in making sandals, and that was in the 70's, after I left the military. I was disabled by exposure to herbicide in the Vietnam War. It started affecting me in the 2000's. I became disabled in 2004, became homeless a couple years later and was chronically homeless except for a four year period when I was able to work half time in my profession of residential remodel/ repair contracting. The VA kept denying my claims for durability compensation until the Pact Act of 2022 came into law. That law removed the obstacle to disability compensation that the government had been using to deny claims of herbicide exposure. I hadn't been able to work even part time since 2021, figured the VA would never help me, so I had the brainstorm to return to making sandals, which I had always enjoyed and with which I had some ability. Recently the VA found in my favor with my last claim and I now have enough money to pay all my bills. I started my first pair of sandals today but no longer need more income to stay off the street. I was homeless from age 59 to age 77 (this year) except for that four year period. It's really hard on an older person to be homeless. I was always a very good worker, so it was a heart breaker for me. But I will continue with the shop, just no longer with the quiet desperation. I've spent the last 15 months buying what I need on credit and designing what I call a monastic sandal, which I think has a chance to be something. Socks can be worn, there's nothing between the toes. I've also been studying professional leather techniques because my first sandals were accurate but not well finished. I used Edge Kote! And I cobbled! Quick and rough. Today i have a burnishing machine and a Cobra Class 26 and the one design (about 15 before). I'll be able to make other designs, but i want to do this one. It's fully adjustable, has gum rubber full bottom. You'll see soon. 

I don't care if mineral oil is good or bad. I'll use a little Norwegian cod liver oil on my veg tan leather after I stuff it with fats and wax and lanolin. It brings out the natural smell of the leather. Too bad technology hasn't come up with an olfactory app yet. I could post a link. 

I tried finding 100% mink oil but it's a precious commodity and everybody is using just a little bit of it and filling the bottle with fossil fuel derivatives, which may or may not hurt leather, and which cost next to nothing.  I think maybe that's partly what this thread is about? I did find an alleged bottle of 100% mink fat, from Ukraine, and I thought, "Sure, they'll send it after getting my money."  Haha. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by deboardp

[SUP]

@deboardp Thank you for your service. I am sorry and deeply ashamed that you went through so much suffering. I admire you for coming out of it and making a life for yourself. Please do not call yourself a bumbling idiot. Life happens, and after all that you have gone through, I think, and many would agree, that you are a hero and an inspiration, not an idiot by any standard. 

 I completely agree about people using the cheaper mineral oil to pad everything. It is organic as I have mentioned in your thread. but whether to use it or not is a personal matter.

Just an FYI, I  add some D-Limonene to my leather conditioner, which inhibits bacterial as well as fungal activity. Smells good too. In such small quantities, it does not harm the leather either. As you are making sandals, the fungicidal and bactericidal properties might be useful. 

You said you use tallow. Does tallow have a specific purpose? I do not use it or keep it at home. but would love to know. Also, you talk about stuffing leather with fats and waxes and lanolin. How is that done? Is it hot stuffing? Is there a different way of doing it? 

 

 

[deboardp]

1 hour ago, SUP said:

@deboardp Thank you for your service. I am sorry and deeply ashamed that you went through so much suffering. I admire you for coming out of it and making a life for yourself. Please do not call yourself a bumbling idiot. Life happens, and after all that you have gone through, I think, and many would agree, that you are a hero and an inspiration, not an idiot by any standard. 

 I completely agree about people using the cheaper mineral oil to pad everything. It is organic as I have mentioned in your thread. but whether to use it or not is a personal matter.

Just an FYI, I  add some D-Limonene to my leather conditioner, which inhibits bacterial as well as fungal activity. Smells good too. In such small quantities, it does not harm the leather either. As you are making sandals, the fungicidal and bactericidal properties might be useful. 

You said you use tallow. Does tallow have a specific purpose? I do not use it or keep it at home. but would love to know. Also, you talk about stuffing leather with fats and waxes and lanolin. How is that done? Is it hot stuffing? Is there a different way of doing it? 

 

 

It's okay to be a bumbling idiot, it's not a sin or a crime. In fact it's a bit fun. It's a natural part of life, getting old, falling apart, walking into walls, forgetting why  you walked into a room - well, even younger people do that. Being able to laugh at one's self is also being humble, which is probably the greatest virtue. So when I call myself names, I'm just being virtuous. See? There's a plus side to being challenged. 

I can't give myself credit for being where I am. If it were up to me, I'd still be homeless. St. Xenia answered my many sincere if not fervent prayers, asking her to influence the US government, specifically the VA, to honor my service and find in my favor. She has granted my things in the past. When I worked that four years, I was getting nowhere fast in my third year, and I asked her to help me. Within one week I was booked solid for the rest of the year and all of the next year. She's known world-wide to Orthodox Christians as the saint who answers prayers concerning work.

D-limonene sounds like something I could use. I had been thinking about adding some kind of subtle scent. I'll consider it. Is it readily available somewhere? 

Are you going to share your leather conditioner recipe on my thread? It's hardly mine, actually. It's for leather workers of planet earth. Or at least of leatherworker.net. 

My memory doesn't work well, so I'll say that from what I've read here and there, vegetable tanning removes everything from cow skin that could could cause it to rot when wet. The result is that all the fat (cows tend to be fat) which is embedded in the skin, is removed. So I understand (from the readings) that each craftsman has to dress his leather, or treat it with conditioners, which means to put back what the fibers need to keep them from tearing each other apart. If they are dry, they will rub, fray, and come apart. So the craftsman stuffs the leather with things to do that. I don't remember the specifics, but I think those things are fats and waxes. Maybe oils, too, I'm not sure. But tallow is simply cow fat that has been rendered, so that it won't go rancid. I think rendered means melted. There's a fellow by the name of Austin "Oz" Black who used to be a member here, under the name unicornleather. I mention him in my thread, and i think I mentioned him in ScottWolf's thread in "Dyes, Glues and such". He talks about mineral oils in that thread, but I can't tell you what he said, sorry.  Anyway, I'll attach one of Oz's comments here, in which he explains how he conditions, or dresses, his leather. I thought he did it by the project, but he does mention dressing whole sides or hides and that they are still pristine 25 years later, which I thought might mean he didn't use them? Business was bad? Anyway, the way he describes how to stuff leather with fats and oils will answer your question how to do it. That's how I plan to do it, bare hands, work the grease into both sides of the warm, wet leather. He explains why warm and wet, something about opening the pores of the leather and when the water evaporates, the grease works its way deep along the fibers. The hand rubbing adds heat, which thins the grease. I think when the leather is cool the grease is thicker than when it's warm, but it still lubricates the fibers, for when they bend.  Makes sense to me...leather conditioner.odt

[deboardp]

PS Lanolin is produced by sheep - I have forgotten exactly - by (I think) their sebaceous glands of the skin, to coat and protect their wool from the elements. The industry extracts from sheared wool in centrifuges, and bottles it - or jars it? - for use in cosmetics? I don't remember. Wikipedia probably has a description. It's called wool wax and another name starting with wool. It's used in lip balm and nursing mothers used to use it for cracked nipples during nursing months. However, there are some problems - the baby can be allergic, and a significant portion of mothers who use it develop some kind of problem. Infection? So it's probably not used as much for that, unless someone has used it without problems, hears about the problem with it, but knows she's not affected so keeps using it. I bought 6.5 pounds of it in anhydrous form. It's like a gel, I guess. It's not here yet. I bought tallow, it's not here yet. I also bought pork lard, organic, and it's not here yet, but Scott Wolf said he used some and it develop a stinky smell, so I'm not planning to use it. I'll use lanolin instead. Hope this helps.

[deboardp]

PS I also bought some Norwegian cod liver oil, and it's on the way, from the fjords of Norway!

[SUP]

@deboardpLOL believe me, we all have the bit about forgetting things. My husband refuses to allow me to keep things away 'safely'; it becomes 'safe' from ever being found again. So I get what you're saying.

Good to hear your prayers were answered. That will give hope to many who need it and read your post. Thank you for talking about it.

About Lanolin, I know unfortunately that many are allergic to it, my husband being one of them. But he seems to tolerate it well in my conditioner, which is simple. 

It just has Lanolin, Beeswax and mineral oil. If I want a wax it is more of the Lanolin and beeswax with a bit of carnauba wax added in for more shine, the rest being the oil. If I want a balm, more of the oil and less of the other ingredients. I usually keep changing the proportions depending on the season when I make it. So more solid ingredients in summer and vice versa in winter. The mineral oil restores color and brings a warm shine to the leather, which I like. In fact, a mix of beeswax and mineral oil can be used to bring back an shine and restore color after conditioning with other products, f desired.  I still like it better than other oils. If I have a bad experience with it, I will change the oil that I use and post it here as well.

The D-Limonene I get off Amazon. I add it last and  I just add about 10-12 drops for a small batch of conditioner - about 250 ml liquified. I just add it, stirring, until I get a strength of smell that I like.

Cod liver oil I plan to order - does it have to be Norwegian?

Edited December 30, 2023 by SUP

[deboardp]

2 hours ago, SUP said:

@deboardpLOL believe me, we all have the bit about forgetting things. My husband refuses to allow me to keep things away 'safely'; it becomes 'safe' from ever being found again. So I get what you're saying.

Good to hear your prayers were answered. That will give hope to many who need it and read your post. Thank you for talking about it.

About Lanolin, I know unfortunately that many are allergic to it, my husband being one of them. But he seems to tolerate it well in my conditioner, which is simple. 

It just has Lanolin, Beeswax and mineral oil. If I want a wax it is more of the Lanolin and beeswax with a bit of carnauba wax added in for more shine, the rest being the oil. If I want a balm, more of the oil and less of the other ingredients. I usually keep changing the proportions depending on the season when I make it. So more solid ingredients in summer and vice versa in winter. The mineral oil restores color and brings a warm shine to the leather, which I like. In fact, a mix of beeswax and mineral oil can be used to bring back an shine and restore color after conditioning with other products, f desired.  I still like it better than other oils. If I have a bad experience with it, I will change the oil that I use and post it here as well.

The D-Limonene I get off Amazon. I add it last and  I just add about 10-12 drops for a small batch of conditioner - about 250 ml liquified. I just add it, stirring, until I get a strength of smell that I like.

Cod liver oil I plan to order - does it have to be Norwegian?

No, but this place uses a thorough ten step filtration process that removes heavy metals and even the fish smell, which seems to be quite a feat. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by deboardp

[fredk]

K.I.S.S.

My end of year report

All the pieces, bar one, together. This is how they were kept in the car. Temps varied from 6.5*c at night to a max of 24.5*c during the day.  Any curling evened out and they all flattened. Each piece received two coats of its oil, at approx at 2 week interval. I'll be applying another coat of it oil tomorrow and getting them back in the car

None show any fungus and the car is a ripe place for it to grow. The car is full of cardboard boxes and there is a certain amount of dampness.

Front;

Reverse; in the same order as the front picture

The flexibility and smell on each piece was judged by me and rated out of 5.  Colour is judged the same with the explanation I'm colour blind  so I can say little on that.

0 being the control pieces 

0 to 5 in flexibility = 0, no change to 5 very stiff.  

In all the photos the test piece is on the left, top right is a control piece which was kept in my leather room and bottom right is the control kept with the test pieces

Test piece in car; Flex = (-)1, S = strong leather, C = blotchy light tan

1.Baby Oil;  Flex =  (-)1, S = 0, C = Dark tan

2. Cooking oil; Flex = (-)1, S = Very slightly leather, C = Dark tan

3. Lard (pig fats based); Flex = 0, S = Slightly leather, C = Light tan

4. NFO Compound; Flex = (-)1, S = 0, C = Dark tan

5. Olive oil; Flex = (-)1, S = Very slightly leather, C = Dark tan

6. 3-in-1 oil; Flex = 1, S = very slight 3-in-1 oil, C = Dark Tan

7. Vaseline; Flex = 2, S = very, very slightly leather, C = Very light tan

The photographs exaggerate the blotchiness.

So far, I would be happy applying some of these instead of dyeing, especially #1 to #5

Edited December 31, 2023 by fredk

[SUP]

Good, detailed report @fredk.

I missed showing the backs of the leather pieces, which you have done. I should include that the next time. 

I love how dark the ones treated with cooking oil and NFO compound are. Like you said, good to use in place of dyeing. 

Which cooking oil did you use? 

 

 

[fredk]

Cooking oil is rape seed oil. I shud have put that

Edited December 31, 2023 by fredk

[SUP]

Thank you @fredk  I will add that to my list of "oils I can use to darken leather instead of using dye" 

 

 

[fredk]

3 Monthly Report; A bit late

I had to check when I started, I thought it was later than 10/1

As of 1/1/24, 3 months on, none of the pieces have gone rancid or smell bad. Some smell of nothing at all. No sign of any fungal growth

The first set were re-oiled and put back in the windscreen of the car on 1/1/24

I never did a second set but I will do them in about a months time. They will be for hanging up outside

[chuck123wapati]

mine is about the same temp in the green house is in the low 40s, no visible changes, no smells.

[deboardp]

On 9/19/2023 at 12:42 AM, ScottWolf said:

As to mineral oil or Parafin wax, Liquid Parrafin or any of the other names used for it in other locations, its all the same, a petroleum derived product. Mineral oil itself is not a leather conditioner like Tallow or neatsfoot, etc, it is a barrier, in that it keeps moisture in, which is why its used extensively in women's skin care products, cosmetics, etc. It can be used as a solvent in a product, as it dissolves other ingredients and is also considered a cleaning agent  as it will break down sebum  and cosmetic residue on peoples skin. For leather, its great for sealing moisture in and works best as a finishing product, after the leather has been conditioned,  and it also adds a polish or shine to the leather.

Well, it may not be great, I don't know, but this is what Carl Friedrik has to say about it:

https://www.carlfriedrik.com/magazine/best-oil-for-leather

"In our test, we applied baby oil (which is perfumed mineral oil) to a leather wallet and, as expected, a sheen quickly developed. The leather also became softer. While these are both welcome traits, the long-term effects of using mineral oil are extremely detrimental to leather.

Unlike natural oils, mineral oil is occlusive, meaning it forms a protective layer over surfaces that it comes into contact with and prevents moisture from escaping. When moisture becomes trapped within leather, dry rot sets in and this accelerates the deterioration of the fibres. So while mineral oil might appear a practical, inexpensive solution for leather care, the reality is more nuanced. Loss of colour and reduced durability are two common effects of frequent use."

 

[SUP]

Firstly no offense meant to anyone here. 

Carl Friedrik? He sells ready made leather items and leather creams, doesn't he? I  take all that such people say with a pinch of salt. Besides, "loss of color"? Quite the contrary, in fact. Mineral oil is known to restore color and it is used 50% with beeswax to do just that and to restore a shine.

There is not one item out there which is praised to the skies by someone for its efficacy in conditioning leather and which is also not  soundly disparaged by someone else as worthless. Whom do we believe? Ego the need for our experiment. 

From what I see out there, so many seems to disparage everything except what they themselves sell or themselves use and are convinced is good.  Not seen any real proof yet. Maybe 10 or more years from now, those of us who are alive or those who carry on will be able to make definitive statements about the items we are testing.

All the oils and waxes only act as occlusives or lubricants. Mineral oil acts as a lubricant too. Nothing gets 'absorbed'. Just lubricates. We need to see the entire picture to know what is finally good together on leather. At what stage do we add waxes, when to use oils or both or neither. As @chuck123wapati said a few comments ago, the extent of hydration of leather will be about that of the surroundings. So when the humidity is about 50%, which is ideal, if our leather is not already dehydrated and dry,  if we use lubricants and then occlusives, it would work well, is it not? If the leather is dry or even if it is not, we could dampen the leather and rub in waxes, forming emulsions as you said @deboardp, which when the water dries, leaves the leather soft. A good occlusive like mineral oil can be pre-added or applied later. Resolene or Mop & Glo or any similar finish would then protect the leather..

Earlier, it was just people in localized areas sharing their experiences. Now it is world-wide and we can get so much more information. In this case, at least for me, it has simplified everything, once I separated the chaff from the grain. Hydration? always water, world over. Lubricants? Different, depending on what  is available easily. Occlusives? The same. Finishes. Ditto.  All finally giving the same result - soft, healthy, beautiful leather!

 

Edited January 9 by SUP

[SUP]

Checked my leather pieces. No mold or smell on any of them either.