Anyone else getting sick and tired of paying premium prices and being sent scuffed up lower grade hides?

[Burkhardt]

I would never pay that much for a side cause I'm cheap.  150.00 a side HO economy and I work around  any issues but I either tool or stamp so no worries about most of it. I literally got a hide that you could see daylight like it was shot with a shotgun. But the overall don't look like yours. I know the exchange rate from the states suck but I'd go the quantity to get the quality and if there's a bad spot  cut from the other. If you could get 2 hides for 300.00 U.S. would the exchange rate be over the 200.00 difference

[SpruceMoose]

10 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

I would never pay that much for a side cause I'm cheap.  150.00 a side HO economy and I work around  any issues but I either tool or stamp so no worries about most of it. I literally got a hide that you could see daylight like it was shot with a shotgun. But the overall don't look like yours. I know the exchange rate from the states suck but I'd go the quantity to get the quality and if there's a bad spot  cut from the other. If you could get 2 hides for 300.00 U.S. would the exchange rate be over the 200.00 difference

For 8 years all i bought was cheap and rough tandy tooling leather and worked with it and had good luck in what i received, but my closest tandy changed management and staff awhile back, what was once a good customer experience became a piss off every box i opened and management didn't give a crap about what they sent.

Either way i'm at the point where i want an approximate consistency and quality in how a hide tools, dyes and accepts finish, (as my product quality and prices have gone up) and not have to play tetris trying to place templates around marks while wasting minimal leather . I tool everything i make as well however there's often long strap pieces without anything but a simple edge and border stamp, irregular shapes, so cutting out a whole hide in the one product can be a struggle to place the highly tooled piece and the bare strap when a hide is dinged up. You know, i should really get a smaller basket stamp and stamp the whole dang thing lol, but i like the contrast of some un-tooled leather

The exchange rate does suck, but it's usually the customs and duties and brokerage fees on top that make a cheap economy hide still work out to be real expensive. On average mid-high range tooling sides are at least 400-500 in Canada, buying from the states is initially cheaper until the fed ex bill comes(unless the company lies on the product value, and i know of a few companies that do this as a default). Most suppliers that have HO and W&C it's expensive no matter the grade in Canada. But like i said, i price my product high so an expensive hide still makes above and beyond.

 

I've had decent luck with buckle guy's w&c so i may go back. I'd like to try the Sepicii tooling as well.

I got spoiled for 3 bends of french pasted back tooling leather a few months ago, unfortunately unknown source, just something that was sitting on the back shelf of a local tack shop that was 10 years old, but was the smoothest, supple yet firm and cleanest most beautiful tooling leather i'd ever seen. If i could find that again lol

 

[bladegrinder]

I feel your pain, I usually order 12 feet or so at a time. And usually a better grade but not the A, it seems like anything lesser then A is all the same…utility. I sent one piece back that had what looked like roller grease or burn marks over 75% of it on the flesh side, I was furious, I needed it NOW and they sent me that. I called them and asked how it ever made it out their door, of course no answer just ‘we’re sorry”. I don’t know what the answer is, ever time I buy a piece and look at it, at first it’s like, well it looks somewhat ok, then every time I go cut into it it seems I find more flaws. This is all HO leather, I think next time I’m going to buy from W-C straight from them and keep my fingers crossed. I’m willing to pay or have to buy more if it’s guaranteed to be a good side.

Edited November 16, 2023 by bladegrinder

[DeWayne Hayes]

This is a small panel I just bought from Buckleguy of Wicket & Craig carving leather. Some weird black (dye) stains on it. 

I'm going to attempt sending back. This was my first time buying W&C leather but I get now what people mean when they mention W&C leather feels "spongy" to them, or soft. Very pliable - not sure if it would firm up enough after wet forming for holster use, but regardless, I don't want to spend hours working on a project wondering how bad those black spots will show. 

[MarshalWill]

Those spots could be from touching it with wet steel. Steel (iron) is what makes vinegaroon black. I've had similar spots after I used my drill press to impress a stamp. Obviously I got it against some steel in the shop. I have to take care to not touch the wet leather against any steel.

[JLSleather]

H.O. and W/C both make some very good leather.  They both also have lower "grades", so the name itself isn't the whole story.  But H.O. sells A/B, I have never got them to send JUST "A" grade leather.  Maybe I'm not writing big enough checks, but they will tell you up front if you order (which is min 10 sides), they will send a mix of "A" and "B".  But they will not charge for "A" and not send "A".

MOST distributors are counting on the customer not knowing the difference.  BY FAR THE BEST I've found if you like Hermann Oak but are buying less than 10 sides would be http://www.goligerleather.us/.  Cheryl is quite good and will get you FIRM leather.  They don't con anybody - there IS a markup for their service.  But what you'll get is what you paid for... you'll be happy.  Very nice A-grade Hermann Oak every time I ordered there.

W/C is great leather, for the most part, though I have had a complaint on more than one ocassion.  They offered me a discount on the order.  But like you, I don't want to pay less and get less, I want the GOOD STUFF and don't mind paying the premium price long as I'm getting the premium stuff.  Overall, W/C has been quite good.  But that's ordering DIRECT FROM W/C ... I have ordered from "distributors" who either don't know what top grade is supposed to look like, or more likely , they thought I didn't know.

Here's a pic of some A-grade Herman Oak "holster" leather, just to show what that's SUPPOSED TO LOOK LIKE. Second pic is a closeup of pic 1

 

[wayner]

Thanks JLS , I appreciate you sharing your knowledge 

[JLSleather]

On 11/15/2023 at 10:04 AM, SpruceMoose said:

 

 

Maybe I'm crazy and my expectations are too high, I was going to buy straight a/b grade but the company owner suggested the a/b branded grade and assured me it was fantastic and it was the exact same quality as a/b hermann oak just with a  brand, But to me this is utility grade with numerous huge drag marks from handling, there's a bunch vertical as well but they blend in with the fat marks, hard to photograph. Dye doesn't hide burnished in markings and scuffs from man handling. 500.00. 

(Note: I am not talking about the brand or the fat marks, this i obviously do not mind as it's part of leather, i buy about 6-10 sides a year over the past decade, but just the quality is getting worse or my luck as well, i just want to pay good money for good leather and am tired of companies saying what's pictured here is the best grade you can buy)

 

This is ENTIRELY UNACCEPTABLE.  Somebody sent me that would not have to worry about any more of my time or money.  I wasted quite a bit of time with a couple of US "outlets"... no amount of phone calls/complaints seem to get through to them so finally (and too late, really) just cancelled them from my list of suppliers. 

I'm not afraid to name names -- Weaver took my money ONCE, and never again.  What they sent was SO bad there was no possibility of a mistake. 

And Springfield Leather (MO) would nod and smile to my complaints, then send the same garbage next time.  One side of 5/6 I could literally stretch over an inch with my hands.

And who was that one guy... Robert and I both ordered a couple different cuts to see the quality he was selling when he showed up on this site.  ALL of it was just sad - some of it worked for NOT TOOLED belts, the rest ... just trash.  Didn't even try to send it back or complain,.. just ate the cost and lost the guy's number.

Cheryl at Goliger Leather is quite good (CA, US) though I imagine the shipping to you would be crazy.  Otherwise, H.O. direct has NEVER given me a problem, and almost could say the same for WIckett-Craig.

THE PIECES you show have WAY too many wrinkles.  I expect some of that in the shoulder area, but NOT IN THE  BACK OR BEND. That piece isn't good for anything but maybe a floor covering to wipe your boots on.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Northmount
Moved JLS comment out of the quoted post to make it obvious who is posting what.

[Handstitched]

This has been discussed quite a bit, but heres a few pics of the leather I get from my supplier in Perth, WA . I bought 4 of these recently.  Torino 4mm D/B . I sometimes get shoulders.  I use these for my belts . The only marking is a branding mark , ' JW or WJ ' .( I keep those in) , and a batch number right at the very edge , and thats it.  I buy around 8-10 of these per year , depending on sales &  demand. 

I've been with the same supplier for many years,  I phone ahead  being so far away , I  tell them what I need. I don't even have to inspect the hides these days like I use to , they were all rolled up and packaged  on the bench ready for me to load into my car.  

HS

(PS: ignore the ' one way ' sign ....that I stole in my ' yoof'   ) 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Handstitched

[nrk]

On 11/15/2023 at 9:04 PM, SpruceMoose said:

Maybe I'm crazy and my expectations are too high, I was going to buy straight a/b grade but the company owner suggested the a/b branded grade and assured me it was fantastic and it was the exact same quality as a/b hermann oak just with a  brand, But to me this is utility grade with numerous huge drag marks from handling, there's a bunch vertical as well but they blend in with the fat marks, hard to photograph. Dye doesn't hide burnished in markings and scuffs from man handling. 500.00. 

(Note: I am not talking about the brand or the fat marks, this i obviously do not mind as it's part of leather, i buy about 6-10 sides a year over the past decade, but just the quality is getting worse or my luck as well, i just want to pay good money for good leather and am tired of companies saying what's pictured here is the best grade you can buy)

 

oh, man, this leather su**s (pardon my french)

feel sorry for u

 

On 11/27/2023 at 1:45 AM, DeWayne Hayes said:

This is a small panel I just bought from Buckleguy of Wicket & Craig carving leather. Some weird black (dye) stains on it. 

I'm going to attempt sending back. This was my first time buying W&C leather but I get now what people mean when they mention W&C leather feels "spongy" to them, or soft. Very pliable - not sure if it would firm up enough after wet forming for holster use, but regardless, I don't want to spend hours working on a project wondering how bad those black spots will show. 

i have always purchased directly from WC, never had such issue

if there are only few black dots, not an issue, just saying