Cobra Class 4 Premium

[DieselTech]

Guys & gals I think I have settled on purchasing a Cobra Class 4 Premium package. 

Is there any optional aftermarket accessories I need to purchase?

What do you professionals recommend purchasing for supplies & maintenance care?

I'm wanting to purchase everything I might need when I'm ordering. 

I like to use 207-346 thread when i saddle stitch by hand, so I'm planning on having the machine set up with 277 thread.

Should i get some supplies for 138 thread for lighter projects? 

Also why does most people run a lighter thread on the bobbin side or bottom side of the machine? Is it due to thread capacity on the bobbins? 

Thanks. Any & all help will be greatly appreciated. 

[kgg]

1 hour ago, DieselTech said:

What do you professionals recommend purchasing for supplies & maintenance care?

Good needles, good thread, good bobbins and oil.

2 hours ago, DieselTech said:

Also why does most people run a lighter thread on the bobbin side or bottom side of the machine?

In my opinion, the only validate reasons to use a different size of top thread then whats in the bobbin are:

i) Top side thread appearance. Doing this results in the strength of the seam being reduced to that of the smaller sized thread in the bobbin.

ii) Using a thread that exceeds the max thread rating of the machine.

If you have to use a smaller thread in the bobbin because of bobbin head space clearances you are using the wrong class of machine to do the work.

2 hours ago, DieselTech said:

Is it due to thread capacity on the bobbins? 

No. Yes, you will get more of the smaller size thread on the bobbin but the amount difference is going to be small.

Remember these machines are heavy and have a tendency of tipping the nose forward. The head alone is going to be about 120 lbs so getting it placed on the stand and bolts in place really needs at least two people and make sure the wheels are locked / blocked so the stand doesn't move away from you.

kgg

 

[bladegrinder]

I have the Cowboy 4500 version I bought from Bob at Toledo industrial a while back and I'm loving it. I would recommend the narrow plate for one thing, that's about all I've added to my machine.

As for threads, all I've run so far is 277 but Pretty much all I make so far is knife sheaths and holsters. I keep it oiled up good and wipe the feet and needle area before running it. the bobbin holds a lot

of thread, no worries there.  I don't know if you have experience with sewing machines, I never touched one before I got mine so there was quite a learning curve but I feel comfortable running it now.

I just glued up a LOT of scrap leather and got to it. I put 3/4" of glued up leather under this thing and it stitched it right up.

Probably the thing I kept messing up most was not double checking the forward-reverse lever position before I got to stitching, but thinking about it now I normally start and finish both in reverse so I don't have a problem there anymore but I make sure to look first anyway! that and turning corners before the bobbin thread was picked up. now I go really slow turning or even use the hand wheel at that point.

Speaking of the hand wheel...my machine came with a brake, looks like a Kia brake pad inside the motor, when you step on the pedal it releases the brake, a little more pressure and the motor starts running.

I took the brake pad out, it's easy, otherwise you can't turn the hand wheel with out stepping on the pedal.

you can do a search here for 441 machines and find a ton of info. I wish I'd have bought mine years ago I hand stitched thick leather for over 30 years, I recently retired, moved to the woods,,built a new shop and decided it was time for a machine.

 

[DieselTech]

19 minutes ago, kgg said:

Good needles, good thread, good bobbins and oil.

In my opinion, the only validate reasons to use a different size of top thread then whats in the bobbin are:

i) Top side thread appearance. Doing this results in the strength of the seam being reduced to that of the smaller sized thread in the bobbin.

ii) Using a thread that exceeds the max thread rating of the machine.

If you have to use a smaller thread in the bobbin because of bobbin head space clearances you are using the wrong class of machine to do the work.

No. Yes, you will get more of the smaller size thread on the bobbin but the amount difference is going to be small.

Remember these machines are heavy and have a tendency of tipping the nose forward. The head alone is going to be about 120 lbs so getting it placed on the stand and bolts in place really needs at least two people and make sure the wheels are locked / blocked so the stand doesn't move away from you.

kgg

 

Thanks kgg. I appreciate your time & knowledge. Yes I'm going to have a couple friends help with assembly. 

Who makes the best needles or what brand do you reccomend getting? 

I'll get extra bobbins as well when ordering. 

I'm sure I'll forget something & have to place another order. 

[DieselTech]

8 minutes ago, bladegrinder said:

I have the Cowboy 4500 version I bought from Bob at Toledo industrial a while back and I'm loving it. I would recommend the narrow plate for one thing, that's about all I've added to my machine.

As for threads, all I've run so far is 277 but Pretty much all I make so far is knife sheaths and holsters. I keep it oiled up good and wipe the feet and needle area before running it. the bobbin holds a lot

of thread, no worries there.  I don't know if you have experience with sewing machines, I never touched one before I got mine so there was quite a learning curve but I feel comfortable running it now.

I just glued up a LOT of scrap leather and got to it. I put 3/4" of glued up leather under this thing and it stitched it right up.

Probably the thing I kept messing up most was not double checking the forward-reverse lever position before I got to stitching, but thinking about it now I normally start and finish both in reverse so I don't have a problem there anymore but I make sure to look first anyway! that and turning corners before the bobbin thread was picked up. now I go really slow turning or even use the hand wheel at that point.

Speaking of the hand wheel...my machine came with a brake, looks like a Kia brake pad inside the motor, when you step on the pedal it releases the brake, a little more pressure and the motor starts running.

I took the brake pad out, it's easy, otherwise you can't turn the hand wheel with out stepping on the pedal.

you can do a search here for 441 machines and find a ton of info. I wish I'd have bought mine years ago I hand stitched thick leather for over 30 years, I recently retired, moved to the woods,,built a new shop and decided it was time for a machine.

 

Thanks for the info. I appreciate your time. 

So is a narrow throat plate offered for the Cobra Class 4? If so who do I order it from? 

I have used clothing type sewing machines, but it was years ago. 

I've been watching some videos on the Cobra Class 4 machine & it seems to be a nice machine, watching the guys using it. 

[Handstitched]

All I ever use on my  441 clone is 277 M10 thread top and bottom, sometimes mixing colours top or bottom and thats it.   I use Schmetz  #24 180 needles. The less time used changing threads etc. the better. This set up suits my application nicely .  So far, I've never had the need to use different thread sizes . 

2 hours ago, bladegrinder said:

Probably the thing I kept messing up most was not double checking the forward-reverse lever position before I got to stitching, but thinking about it now I normally start and finish both in reverse

Yeh same here , When I was learning,  I put a   large  F & R label on the lever in the early days to remind myself  where the lever is, lol .  All good these days. But, I do keep my fingers well away from the ' business end' .  

HS 

[kgg]

6 hours ago, DieselTech said:

Who makes the best needles or what brand do you reccomend getting? 

I personally only use Schmetz needles in any of my machines. I've never had any issues with that brand.

kgg

[DieselTech]

Where & who sells a narrow throat plate, feed dog, & presser foot for the Cobra Class 4? 

I would like to be able to sew thinner materials when the time comes. 

I would like to be able to sew canvas & soft leathers with the Cobra Class 4.

Thanks. Any & all help will be greatly appreciated. 

[TomE]

1 minute ago, DieselTech said:

Where & who sells a narrow throat plate, feed dog, & presser foot for the Cobra Class 4? 

I would like to be able to sew thinner materials when the time comes. 

I would like to be able to sew canvas & soft leathers with the Cobra Class 4.

Thanks. Any & all help will be greatly appreciated. 

@RockyAussie and @Patrick1 sell narrow feed dogs and plates for the 441 type machines.  Patrick also has narrow foot sets for sewing close to edges and raised features.  You can message them here or contact through their websites, Wild Harry and Hennigan Precision Engineering, respectively.  These accessories are handy for extending the range of the 441 to lighter weight leathers.  The narrow dog/plate from Brian (RockyAussie) is my every day set up for sewing tack.  It feels more stable to me than the stock plate.  The even narrower plates and feet from Patrick are great for sewing next to raised leather features and they do a nice job climbing over increasing thickness, for example the turn at the end of a strap that wraps around hardware.  I prefer using #207 thread or smaller with the dog/plate set up that I purchased from Patrick - he has several widths - to have good clearance around the needle.  I don't have experience sewing canvas on a 441.  That would be a reason to purchase some #138 thread.  

[DieselTech]

22 minutes ago, TomE said:

@RockyAussie and @Patrick1 sell narrow feed dogs and plates for the 441 type machines.  Patrick also has narrow foot sets for sewing close to edges and raised features.  You can message them here or contact through their websites, Wild Harry and Hennigan Precision Engineering, respectively.  These accessories are handy for extending the range of the 441 to lighter weight leathers.  The narrow dog/plate from Brian (RockyAussie) is my every day set up for sewing tack.  It feels more stable to me than the stock plate.  The even narrower plates and feet from Patrick are great for sewing next to raised leather features and they do a nice job climbing over increasing thickness, for example the turn at the end of a strap that wraps around hardware.  I prefer using #207 thread or smaller with the dog/plate set up that I purchased from Patrick - he has several widths - to have good clearance around the needle.  I don't have experience sewing canvas on a 441.  That would be a reason to purchase some #138 thread.  

Thanks. I appreciate the help. What differences or features does these plates & feet have over each other. 

What's the differences from RockyAussie accessories versus Patrick1 accessories? What does 1 offer over the other? If any?

I'm new to machines & trying to figure out what I all need to purchase for the projects that might come up. 

I'm willing to buy both them guys/manufacturers accessories if both are needed. 

Thanks for the help. 

[Hags]

I have a class 3. I run primarily 277 top and bottom. Lots of oil, every time I wind/change a bobbin and sooner if I haven't used it in a while. Place a towel over the foot controls. These drip oil onto the pedals and will loosen the rubber. Wetting and tapping down the stitches helps reduce the needle hole size and marks from presser feet. Too bad they don't ship a bucket full of patience with these things. If anyone has helpful tips for sewing lightweight materials I'm all ears. 

[DieselTech]

18 minutes ago, Hags said:

I have a class 3. I run primarily 277 top and bottom. Lots of oil, every time I wind/change a bobbin and sooner if I haven't used it in a while. Place a towel over the foot controls. These drip oil onto the pedals and will loosen the rubber. Wetting and tapping down the stitches helps reduce the needle hole size and marks from presser feet. Too bad they don't ship a bucket full of patience with these things. If anyone has helpful tips for sewing lightweight materials I'm all ears. 

Thanks for the info. Yeah I was watching a guy use his Cobra Class 4 & got oil on his gun belt he was making. Needless to say he was pissed. He forgot to wipe the machine down before using it.

Yeah the reason I keep inquiring about the narrow throat plate & such, so I have the ability to sew the thinner stuff on a bigger sewing machine if the occasion arises. 

[TomE]

10 hours ago, DieselTech said:

Thanks. I appreciate the help. What differences or features does these plates & feet have over each other. 

What's the differences from RockyAussie accessories versus Patrick1 accessories? What does 1 offer over the other? If any?

I'm new to machines & trying to figure out what I all need to purchase for the projects that might come up. 

I'm willing to buy both them guys/manufacturers accessories if both are needed. 

Thanks for the help. 

My advice would be to gain experience using your new machine for heavier leathers before buying additional plates to extend the range to lighter weight projects.  You'll have a better feel for what you want/need with respect to thread size and leather thickness.  You can do a lot of good work with the stock accessories.  I have 2 machines and still do a lot of hand sewing because for some projects it's easier than setting up on a machine, and I like the look of a saddle stitch for certain projects.

[DieselTech]

11 minutes ago, TomE said:

My advice would be to gain experience using your new machine for heavier leathers before buying additional plates to extend the range to lighter weight projects.  You'll have a better feel for what you want/need with respect to thread size and leather thickness.  You can do a lot of good work with the stock accessories.  I have 2 machines and still do a lot of hand sewing because for some projects it's easier than setting up on a machine, and I like the look of a saddle stitch for certain projects.

Yeah there is nothing that will replace a saddle stitch. It looks soo good when you nail it perfectly. Lol I still have a hiccup every once in a while saddle stitching. Lmao sometimes my stitch will have 1 or 2 stitches that change direction. 

I've read in a few places the Cobra class 4 likes to break a foot off of the presser feet occasionally. Idk how often or what caused it. 

Thanks I got time to think about things & research. As soon as  New Year day gets over with. I'll be ordering the machine. 

[bladegrinder]

I've never heard of the feet breaking off but that's another thing you'll want to play with is foot pressure, you want to adjust it so you don't get heavy marks on the leather.

[DieselTech]

33 minutes ago, bladegrinder said:

I've never heard of the feet breaking off but that's another thing you'll want to play with is foot pressure, you want to adjust it so you don't get heavy marks on the leather.

Yeah I'm glad I got a big pile of scrap leather, glad I did not toss my scraps. I'm sure I'm going to need lots of practice with the cobra class 4. 

 

[Burkhardt]

1 hour ago, DieselTech said:

Yeah I'm glad I got a big pile of scrap leather, glad I did not toss my scraps. I'm sure I'm going to need lots of practice with the cobra class 4. 

 

I've never heard about breaking off feet either as @bladegrinder said. Keep a bunch of scrap by the machine because the thicker or thinner material will change the stitch length. This is the site. https://heprecision.com/shop/ols/products

[DieselTech]

54 minutes ago, Burkhardt said:

I've never heard about breaking off feet either as @bladegrinder said. Keep a bunch of scrap by the machine because the thicker or thinner material will change the stitch length. This is the site. https://heprecision.com/shop/ols/products

Thanks a bunch. Lol more stuff to buy. But that looks like high quality accessories. 

Yeah I'm going to buy all the aftermarket accessories that company offers. 

Their stuff looks better quality than what's ships with the machine. 

[dikman]

I broke a needle on my 4500 once, so it can be done  BUT, I was sewing a holster that was just under 1" so was pushing things slightly and it deflected the needle so it hit the needle plate. My fault entirely, and about the only way you'll break a needle on these machines. As for breaking feet, first time I've heard of that happening, these class 4 machines are built tough!

[HoltFamilyHardwoods]

On 12/6/2023 at 12:10 AM, bladegrinder said:

I have the Cowboy 4500 version I bought from Bob at Toledo industrial a while back and I'm loving it. I would recommend the narrow plate for one thing, that's about all I've added to my machine.

As for threads, all I've run so far is 277 but Pretty much all I make so far is knife sheaths and holsters. I keep it oiled up good and wipe the feet and needle area before running it. the bobbin holds a lot

of thread, no worries there.  I don't know if you have experience with sewing machines, I never touched one before I got mine so there was quite a learning curve but I feel comfortable running it now.

I just glued up a LOT of scrap leather and got to it. I put 3/4" of glued up leather under this thing and it stitched it right up.

Probably the thing I kept messing up most was not double checking the forward-reverse lever position before I got to stitching, but thinking about it now I normally start and finish both in reverse so I don't have a problem there anymore but I make sure to look first anyway! that and turning corners before the bobbin thread was picked up. now I go really slow turning or even use the hand wheel at that point.

Speaking of the hand wheel...my machine came with a brake, looks like a Kia brake pad inside the motor, when you step on the pedal it releases the brake, a little more pressure and the motor starts running.

I took the brake pad out, it's easy, otherwise you can't turn the hand wheel with out stepping on the pedal.

you can do a search here for 441 machines and find a ton of info. I wish I'd have bought mine years ago I hand stitched thick leather for over 30 years, I recently retired, moved to the woods,,built a new shop and decided it was time for a machine.

 

Where did you order the narrow plate for this machine.  I have had a hard time finding them.

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, HoltFamilyHardwoods said:

Where did you order the narrow plate for this machine.  I have had a hard time finding them.

@Patrick1makes them in the USA. Read this topic to get up to speed and order a set.

[bladegrinder]

I got mine from @RockyAussie.