Seiko and Juki compound feed machines

[Wilder]

Hi all, 

I am a first time forum user so please forgive me if this question is in the wrong place. 

I am in the market for a new or good used machine, for sewing tool hosters and bags from leather, vinyl, canvas and webbing, using nylon or polyester v138 thread.

Till now I have successfully used an old Pfaff 545 H3, but for various reasons am looking to replace it.

My projects are sometimes very thick, approx 10mm, and The Juki 1508 and Seiko LSWN-8BL-3 seem to be suitable candidates in my price range, and both are very similar 'on paper'. They have similar foot lift, bobbin/hook, similar maximum relative step height (Juki 0.5mm higher), similar max needle and thread sizes, needle system, similar needle bar stroke (but Juki nearly 3mm longer).

My question is, am I splitting hairs, or is somebody aware of a functional difference between these machines that might play a part in my decision?

I have made many phone calls and sent samples to retailers, and remember one fellow telling me the Seiko will probably be robust enough, but possibly not the Juki. I didn't ask why he said this as I knew very little at the time, but to me there is no reason the Juki is equal to the Seiko in regard to heavy sewing. I wonder if it was because he can sell me a Seiko. But the 1508 is no longer available new?  

Huge thanks for your help and for the countless things I have learned from this great forum already.

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

 

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Wilder said:

My projects are sometimes very thick, approx 10mm, and The Juki 1508 and Seiko LSWN-8BL-3 seem to be suitable candidates in my price range, and both are very similar 'on paper'. They have similar foot lift, bobbin/hook, similar maximum relative step height (Juki 0.5mm higher), similar max needle and thread sizes, needle system, similar needle bar stroke (but Juki nearly 3mm longer).

I will base my answer on the Juki LU-1508. First off are you comparing the LU-1508 N or the Lu-1508 NH? The NH version is the heavier duty version using the 190R system of needles verses the 135 system which will allow for a longer stroke in thicker material.

You using V138 thread and sewing at 10mm ( 0.393701" ) which is a touch over 3/8" (0.375") so you are close to or at the max sewing thickness depending on the version of 1508. I think you are at or close to the cross over point to the Class 441 machines. I am going to suggest that you consider looking at a clone Class 441 machine with a table top attachment similar to the Cowboy 4500 which would probably still be within your price range.

kgg

 

 

 

[Northmount]

Moved to leather sewing machines

[Wilder]

Thanks for your reply kgg.

You are right, it is the LU1508N I am referring to. The reason I am not considering the NH version is simply that I never see them come up for sale, in Australia. With the longer needle and stroke, it sounds like it could be an ideal machine for me, especially since I'm not ALWAYS sewing 10mm thick work.

I wonder how a class 441 machine might handle the thinner/lighter projects I sew. I would say 50% of what I sew is around 10mm, and the rest is about 6mm, also with v138.

I was loaned a big Seiko CH8B, for a couple years. I assume it shares a lot in common with the class 441. It was a great machine for very heavy work but it wasn't very smooth for higher speeds on lighter projects. 

I am going to research the 441 and other cylinder arm machines to see what I can find. Thank you for the suggestions!

[dikman]

A lot has been written on here about using a 441 for sewing lighter stuff (within reason). Two members on here, RockyAussie and Patrick, make a narrow feed-dog and needle plate which will allow the big machines to comfortably sew the sort of gear you're talking about with #138 thread. They could use #69 thread, the limiting factor being finding suitable needles (not common in Australia). RockyAussie is located in Rockhampton Qld, you can contact him via the forum.

I fitted RockyAussie's narrow plate set on my 4500 and can't see any reason to take it off as I can use #138 to #377 with it. These big machines, by the way, are not set up to sew as fast as, say, a typical upholstery-class machine, they are designed to sew very heavy thick leather where slower speed gives greater control.

Edited January 7 by dikman

[Wilder]

6 hours ago, dikman said:

A lot has been written on here about using a 441 for sewing lighter stuff (within reason). Two members on here, RockyAussie and Patrick, make a narrow feed-dog and needle plate which will allow the big machines to comfortably sew the sort of gear you're talking about with #138 thread. They could use #69 thread, the limiting factor being finding suitable needles (not common in Australia). RockyAussie is located in Rockhampton Qld, you can contact him via the forum.

I fitted RockyAussie's narrow plate set on my 4500 and can't see any reason to take it off as I can use #138 to #377 with it. These big machines, by the way, are not set up to sew as fast as, say, a typical upholstery-class machine, they are designed to sew very heavy thick leather where slower speed gives greater control.

The idea of using a heavier cylinder arm machine is becoming increasingly appealing. Thank you for your help, Dickman. These modifications might work well for me as I am not always sewing super heavy stuff, but at times there's no avoiding it. It would be great to improve the machine's 'general purpose' sewing. 

The only complaint I have about the loaned Seiko CH8B, is that for much of my sewing it was perhaps too big and with a clutch motor, shook a lot when my speed control wasn't good. 

A (needle plate and feed) modified 441 or similar, with servo motor might be just the thing, AND will have the advantage of a much greater working space and cylinder arm for tool bags etc. 

Thank you again! 

Kind regards

 

 

[CowboyBob]

The problem with the Seiko CH8B is there isn't much available feet,needle plates & etc for it like the more common 441 style machine.

[dikman]

A 441 machine gives you the ability to sew some pretty heavy stuff if needed but my suggestion would be to try and pickup a used upholstery-class machine as well, these generally have 3/8"/10mm clearance under the feet, run #69 thread and are great general-purpose machines for lighter work. You shouldn't have too much trouble finding a used one and if it needs a servo fitted that's no big deal. The chances of finding a used 441 in Australia, however, are pretty slim!

[Wilder]

That sounds like a good combination. While I had the CH8B and my Pfaff 545 H3, they worked well as a pair. 

The prime motivation for me is to find something with a little more lift and power than the 545. My 545 has the back and forth ('skip') motion with the feed dogs. So I was thinking of converting that to a dedicated binder.

Incidentally, why are binders so often cylinder arm machines?

For my upholstery machine, I can find suitable models in the Juki range but it's hard to get good info from users of the likes of Seiko LSWN-8BL-3. 

 

[keithski122]

That seiko looks very similar to my typical tw1 899 machine which is also similar to a brother machine. The typical machine I have is fantastic and I couldn't recommend it more, I also have a juki 1508(?) at work and the typical is nicer.It seems to be smoother, less fussy and just easier to use. I guess it would be like driving a lexus compared to a ford. I use it for auto upholsery so sometimes up to eight thicknesses of leather which it copes with fine.

[Wilder]

5 hours ago, keithski122 said:

That seiko looks very similar to my typical tw1 899 machine which is also similar to a brother machine. The typical machine I have is fantastic and I couldn't recommend it more, I also have a juki 1508(?) at work and the typical is nicer.It seems to be smoother, less fussy and just easier to use. I guess it would be like driving a lexus compared to a ford. I use it for auto upholsery so sometimes up to eight thicknesses of leather which it copes with fine.

Thank you keithski122. Yes they do look very similar don't they. Also, the model variants around the Seiko are almost identical to those of your Typical. 

I'm glad to hear it's working well for you. I found a commercial upholsterer who has 20+ of the same machine and their experience has been really good too. 

Since the machine and its parts are readily available here, it's now on my shortlist for sure.

Cheers!