Limited funds / first tools

[dikman]

Ye olde wooden strap cutter is hard to beat, it's simple and works well. Don't be in a hurry to replace it.

[Pan5N3]

Sorry, had computer issues and it looks like my reply didn't go through.  Once again thanks for the advice

 

On 12/7/2024 at 5:04 AM, Klara said:

You seem to have your basic tools. In my opinion, nothing is more versatile than basic hand tools. Machines that increase speed cost serious money...

Do you have the equipment for sharpening and are able to use it?

On sharpening, I kind of enjoy sharpening.  I have three different stones that I use for general sharpening and a small stone that lives on my workbench.  Just the right size in case I need to more than stopping my blades.  And I always sharpen (or at least strop) new tools.

My concern with the machine is what you said - they are serious money.  My problem is that I like making bags and other large items.  Took me more than a week to hand sew the gym bag I made for my son. Gorgeous, but too expensive to sell.  Tote bag and similar items take a long time and therefore there are only two options - 1.) Just make them for friends and family or 2.) sell them covering the cost of materials with a small profit and write off the labour. It's still a hobby so I suppose I could do that and save up the money to the point where I could buy those big expensive machines.

On 12/7/2024 at 12:55 AM, DJole said:

You might find some useful information in Ian Atkinson's videos. 
https://www.ianatkinson.net/leather/learn/videos.htm

I saw those videos a while back.  They are a few out there and they are good.  The one that caught my attention was the one about using an arbour press.  Might be a poor man's solution to the hand press.  A 2-ton unit costs around $60 on amazon.

[DJole]

3 hours ago, Pan5N3 said:

I saw those videos a while back.  They are a few out there and they are good.  The one that caught my attention was the one about using an arbour press.  Might be a poor man's solution to the hand press.  A 2-ton unit costs around $60 on amazon.

I got an arbour press last year. (Vevor #1, a one ton press.) I made sure to get one with the hole and set screw already drilled in the square pressing shaft. I use it to set rivets, snaps, and for my custom maker's stamp. It is a lot more accurate than hammering!
I don't have any clicker dies for use on it yet, but I'd like to try that next. I have been pleased with it so far.  

[Klara]

On 12/16/2024 at 10:07 PM, Pan5N3 said:

My concern with the machine is what you said - they are serious money.  My problem is that I like making bags and other large items.  Took me more than a week to hand sew the gym bag I made for my son. Gorgeous, but too expensive to sell.  Tote bag and similar items take a long time and therefore there are only two options - 1.) Just make them for friends and family or 2.) sell them covering the cost of materials with a small profit and write off the labour. It's still a hobby so I suppose I could do that and save up the money to the point where I could buy those big expensive machines.

Now that's another question entirely: Turn professional or not? I'd say (based on some 10 years of trying to make a living from wool - and failing), if you have a decent job that does not drive you crazy, keep it and do leatherwork on the side. And wait and see what happens.

[kgg]

12 minutes ago, Klara said:

My concern with the machine is what you said - they are serious money.

Yes machines can be expensive but:

i) look at finding a good use cylinder arm machine that will sew the thickness of the material you make the bags out of.

ii) look at one of the one armed bandits which range in cost new from $1000 USD ($1430 CAD) up like the Tippman Boss or the Cowboy Outlaw. Don't waste your money on the the Chinese patcher as they are just frustration generators.

iii) the time saving would allow you make the same bag in a 1/10th or less of the time it took to hand sew with a lot less strain on the hands.

kgg

[bruce johnson]

Coming up on 39 years experience from doing my own crappy repairs to hobby/small income  side deal to a full time custom/production side gig to refurbisher and seller of old and new tools. I had a series of articles in ShopTalk magazine (now Illume) about upgrading from entry level tools. Here are some points that don't overlap those much. 

Machines - The first stitcher I bought was a Boss. About 25 years they were $1600 with the basics, anything that sewed with power was over $5K. You can make a manual stitcher like that work and pay for itself. For about $1000 or so more - I'd consider the Cobra 26 from Leather Machine Co. Pretty darn versatile and good support. We have a 1245 and Ferdco 2000, had a singer 17, and my wife got a 26 at Prescott. She loves that machine. Belts, bags, whatever - it will do it.  Clickers and cutting machines - a lot of the same thing? OK. Dies are not cheap but can pay for themselves if you are semi-production or more. You can use steel plates and LDPE cutting boards in a shop press to get started instead of a clicker and save that money for dies. Did it for years until I got a Weaver hand clicker in a shop buyout. Rundi still uses the shop press one a lot. Splitters -  I joke with people that reason I know enough about different splitters is that I didn't know much about the differences and bought several over the years - none will do everything and they all will do something. I've had the $50 utility knife blade versions and the 18" Randalls through here. I've got favorites for different things. There is a tutorial on my website comparing different styles of splitters. 

Cutting tools - Good knives, cutting surfaces, and a sharpening system that gives good results and you can use reliably. Otherwise disposable blade versions of some variety. The self healing mats are OK for roller knives like the Olfa for soft leather. Use a straight blade and it will drag like a square wheel lead sled, then pop out of the mat at the worst time and you will say bad words. Cut on HDPE/Punch on LDPE. both are readily available and pretty inexpensive. For strap cutters - again a tutorial on my website comparing them. Punches - don't expect them to be sharp out of the box from most sellers. The best ones will maintain an edge longer if you stamp into the right material (sole material or LDPE) but eventually they will need to be sharpened. 

Stamping - Realistically - start with a solid base like a heavy built bench. You don't want flex or bounce and then you want to put something with some mass on that. People will tell you that free sink cutouts are fine. If it works for them great. Once I got a messed up headstone, it was a world of difference. I would never go back at that point. Granite inspection plates are a good option too. They don't have to be perfect and tight tolerances. Grizzly and other places have some that are more than adequate. When I built my bench I inlaid a Grizzly plate. People that try stamps out here can't believe the difference that a stamp rock makes. Next would be a good maul or mallet. Doesn't have to mean expensive - just fits and stays put in your hand and has the weight and feel that is comfortable. Stamps - I sell $5 stamps and $350 stamps. There is a quality/price point for them and everybody has different expectations. You can use some stamps like smooth shaders or bevelers forever. You can't fudge a basket stamp that is flat and not much contour. I tell people after you have made about 10,000 impressions with a basket stamp - the cost per impression is essentially nothing between a $5 basket and $50 basket, but the quality of your work has been different all along. Pick the set stamp stamping tools you use that will make a difference with impressions first. I made a lot of money with a cam border and a #500 Craftool basket stamp - good impressions from that particular stamp. 

Edgers - there are a bunch of choices in makers, styles, and quality. Some people just want corners knocked off and some want a 180 degree arc on the edge. There are no blanket recommendations for sizes. Size numbers and styles vary between makers. I've got favorite styles in vintage and new makers. Having a style that is easy for you to sharpen and maintain is the key. Again that pesky cost vs expectations raises up. 

People that know my story will understand. One of the best days in my shop was several years ago. I finished a full floral rope bag and was looking at it in the box. Start to finish, everything used on it from cutting to applying finish was appropriate. I did not have to improvise or fudge once. I was on the "pay as you go plan". Every tool and machine had been paid for with previous work.

[PeterinID]

On 12/4/2024 at 12:16 PM, Pan5N3 said:

You don't say if you are doing much tooling, but for most floral/vine work you only need about a dozen tools and as your first ones need replacing get top quality, for me that means mostly Barry King. You ask about speeding up, the first item I bought to speed thing up was a sewing machine, bags that took a day to stitch now take a fraction of the time. The next thing I bought to speed things was a clicker press. I use it to cut patterns quickly with less waste of leather. I also use it to transfer patterns from homemade tapoffs to cased belt blanks, in minutes I am ready to make my pretooling knife cuts and it used to take an hour or more to trace a pattern for a belt. I have a powered strap cutter that I use mainly for batches of belt blanks but I still use my wooden cutter a lot. Without a skiver I never skived all my bag edges, with my NP4 I skive them all and the end product looks much better.

I guess the common denominator in my personal experience is that the power equipment is valuable in creating more time to do the time consuming stuff, in particular tooling. On a tight budget you could consider financing a sewing machine, it is the biggest time saver until you have one. Once you have a sewing machine you start looking at what processes are consuming a lot of time. Without a sewing machine I would not line a belt, with a sewing machine I do not line a belt.

I'm fairly new to leather work and doing it as a hobby.  I'm slowly upgrading my Amazon tools and looking for recommendation or suggestions about machines or tools to put next on the list.  While I would love to get a good sewing machine, powered skiver or clicker press, funds are limited and those type of machines are more of a 'win the lottery' type dream for me.  But I'm looking to get something to speed up or allow more versatility.  The things I have been building are; notepad covers and bags.  I also have been doing so repairs / restorations for friends.  The latter is my favourite, but I don't think I would even be able to recoup costs, so only family and friends. Oh, and I won favour with my wife by making her a dozen roses for mother's day. 

So, just wondering what folks think would be a good next step.  I know that options are endless but thought I would ask what people found to be a good option that didn't break the bank. Also, are there things that I should avoid?  I've been considering a manual splitter, hand presses, a manual skiver and pretty much anything else.  I won't be in a position to start selling stuff for a while but would like to start building an inventory so that I can eventually hit a couple of craft fairs.

Put another way, this is almost the opposite of the dream machine post 

Any suggestions would be apprecaited.

 

[Pan5N3]

7 hours ago, Klara said:

if you have a decent job that does not drive you crazy, keep it and do leatherwork on the side

I work for a giant faceless multi-national corporation. It is soul sucking, but it pays the bills.  Leather work will likely remain a hobby but it would be nice to make a bit of extra money though selling stuff.

@PeterinID: Tooling is something that I'm starting to look at.  Practising on coasters and other small items that don't cost me much. End goal is to get good enough that I can make a tools fishing rod case for a friend.  We're both into fly fishing and I think my buddy would really like a tooled rod case.  But that's  in the distance. 

7 hours ago, kgg said:

i) look at finding a good use cylinder arm machine that will sew the thickness of the material you make the bags out of.

ii) look at one of the one armed bandits which range in cost new from $1000 USD ($1430 CAD) up like the Tippman Boss or the Cowboy Outlaw.

Not sure i want a manual machine like the Boss.  I was at Tandy and saw them using one and it didn't seem to be something I'd like.  I can , however, be convinced otherwise because I really know nothing about the machines.

Not exactly single arm machines, but saw an add for a Juki LU-562 walking foot machine for $875 CAD, which is about $605 USD.  Not sure if that's a good deal or not. And for an additional $75, I can get a new Consew T-1919 Sewing Machine cost $950 CAD from Tandy.  Not sure if anyone has on opinion on these but if so, let me know.

Thanks for all the comments!  This is helpful. I think sewing machine is the way to go, but the hand press is a close second.  Will have to survive Christmas and then start looking.

 

[AlZilla]

46 minutes ago, Pan5N3 said:

8 hours ago, kgg said:

 

Not sure i want a manual machine like the Boss.  I was at Tandy and saw them using one and it didn't seem to be something I'd like.  I can , however, be convinced otherwise because I really know nothing about the machines.

Not exactly single arm machines, but saw an add for a Juki LU-562 walking foot machine for $875 CAD, which is about $605 USD.  Not sure if that's a good deal or not. And for an additional $75, I can get a new Consew T-1919 Sewing Machine cost $950 CAD from Tandy.  Not sur

You, my friend, are going to buy a sewing machine. We've seen it time and again. They start talking like you are and the next thing, they're taking delivery on some machine the size of a living room sofa.

Start saving your money, clear out a spot and be sure to post pictures when you get it. 

Ask how I know ...

[Pan5N3]

21 hours ago, AlZilla said:

You, my friend, are going to buy a sewing machine. We've seen it time and again. They start talking like you are and the next thing, they're taking delivery on some machine the size of a living room sofa.

Start saving your money, clear out a spot and be sure to post pictures when you get it. 

Ask how I know ...

Sigh...I was hoping that something cheaper would have kept me content (like the hand press - which I'll still likely buy) but you are probably right.