Searching for an odd machine oil. Assistance.

[HondoMan]

Right then,

we recently purchased a Pfaff 335 H3 sewing machine.  This is a massive learning curve for us who sew by hand, but we are making progress.

The topic of oil rose it's head during the learning phase.  The machine handbook, albeit is 40 year old, states, "Only use oil with a viscosity of 41,4mm2/s at 20° C and a density of 0,84kg/dm3".

We have tried to find oil with this viscosity but are not having luck.  As we are in Germany, we asked a German forum - no joy.  This machine needs oil often , so we are hoping to find something quickly.

Thank you all in advance.

Cheers!

[HondoMan]

If you don't understand the numbers, then why bother with an answer lad?  SAE 30 motor oil has a viscosity of 271mm2/s at 20C.  Defo not the correct oil.   Motor oils are utterly different from sewing machine oils or any other.  An equivalent to sewing machine oil is mineral oil.  I would no more put motor oil in a sewing machine than I would sewing machine oil in a car. 

[nejcek74]

If I remember right the temperature/viscosity dependency this one should be around your values:

https://www.tsmoly.com/oils-sewing-machine-p-231.html

but better ask them.

useful online calculator

https://fluidpower.pro/temperature-viscosity-chart/

And I would evaluate what it actually means to use a certain viscosity of sewing machine oil in my application. Because it is very different from industrial production where machines are running 8 hours a day at high speed. I use Spirit2 in all my old Pfaffs, which has lower viscosity, but I guess it's ok as I never run machines on full production speed. (I know, assumption is mother of all f*** ups)

https://www.spirit-spray.com/spirit-2-vaseline-oil/cat/k-2002053/

 

[kgg]

2 hours ago, HondoMan said:

I would no more put motor oil in a sewing machine than I would sewing machine oil in a car. 

Funny thing I NEVER use sewing machine oil in any of my machines. I use a formula of synthetic motor and synthetic transmission oil. If I am flushing a old machine out I use a formula with more transmission oil to get into the bearings and remove any dirt/ etc. I find the synthetic oils lubricate surfaces much better, reduces friction and quiets a machine down particularly an old machines. A old sewing machine mechanic who worked at a factory where machines were used 24 / 7 used straight transmission oil to keep the machines cooler so they could keep up with the sewers.

To answer your question an oil at your spec is similar to 5W oil at 20 C based on the chart ( https://imgur.com/DDA5MJW )

kgg

[dikman]

Don't overthink it. The commonly used Lillywhite sewing machine oil is basically hydraulic fluid (oil), from memory around ISO 66. I couldn't get ISO 66 locally when I was looking so I bought a slightly heavier ISO rating and it works fine. Or you could make up your own concoction like kgg did. Auto trans fluid is very versatile, btw, I've used it to lubricate clock mechanisms and clean/lubricate my rifle barrels.

[Michiel]

If it is sold as sewing machine oil your machine will be fine

[Cumberland Highpower]

I think you can use about anything really.  

My Adlers called for Esso Millcot K68, that's essentially just a first cousin to 20w bar and chain oil.  

Seikos, Consews and Brothers I have just called for common spindle oil, so I bought some Gulfport Gulfspin that I buy cheap on Ebay.

I'd imagine a Pfaff is about the same deal.

You can use about anything, although I'd shy away from detergent oil. 

Synthetic oils are a +  

I use straight 30w non detergent oil on all the big stuff.  Don't like the idea of ATF as lubricant in a machine and all over my fingers, but no reason at all why it wouldn't lubricate (that's what it does).

Edited Sunday at 02:50 PM by Cumberland Highpower

[Cumberland Highpower]

On 2/1/2025 at 3:32 AM, HondoMan said:

  Motor oils are utterly different from sewing machine oils or any other

True to a degree, but then not really at the same time.  A straight non detergent SAE "motor" oil  can be the same exact oil as an ISO oil, they just use a different scale.

SAE30 is ISO 100.  It's the detergents/additives in most SAE oils that would be undesirable to a degree in a sewing machine, but in real life it's kind of a "so what" deal.

Edited Sunday at 02:55 PM by Cumberland Highpower

[dikman]

Yep, like I said don't overthink it. I'm sure many out there use 3-in-1 oil because it's readily available. I doubt there's anything in modern engine oils that is likely to cause any damage to a machine but what you don't want is a heavy sticky oil. If you're not sure then do as Michiel said and just buy sewing machine oil and your Pfaff will be happy.

[Northmount]

Oils like 3-in-1 and other hardware store oils typically contain waxes and other junk that harden and form a varnish on the lubricated surfaces.  This has caused many sewing machines to seize up.  You can search this forum and find posts about it.  Even happens on furnace fan motors that have run for years with no oiling, suddenly seize up a few months after being oiled with 3-in-1 oil.  Quaker State is an example of automotive oils with a high wax content.  My old Ford would start running rough, getting to the point it would barely run.  I had to pour STP gasoline treatment through the carburetor while running at high RPM to loosen up the sticky valve stems and it would run fine for a period of time.  One day my Dad, a professional mechanic, asked what oil I was using.  Told him and he said to switch oil to another brand as QS had lots of wax and that was causing the problem.  Switched to a different brand, lower wax or no wax content and had no further problems. 

Beware of oils that have high wax content or additives that cause a build up of varnish for all your equipment, sewing machines plus ...

[dikman]

Didn't know that, I've learned something new. So just buy sewing machine oil (check the MSDS if uncertain what's in it) or ISO 66 hydraulic fluid.

[HondoMan]

On 2/1/2025 at 12:17 PM, nejcek74 said:

If I remember right the temperature/viscosity dependency this one should be around your values:

https://www.tsmoly.com/oils-sewing-machine-p-231.html

 

This is the nearest thus far.  Cheers!

[CowboyBob]

10 hours ago, Northmount said:

Oils like 3-in-1 and other hardware store oils typically contain waxes and other junk that harden and form a varnish on the lubricated surfaces.  This has caused many sewing machines to seize up.  You can search this forum and find posts about it.  Even happens on furnace fan motors that have run for years with no oiling, suddenly seize up a few months after being oiled with 3-in-1 oil.  Quaker State is an example of automotive oils with a high wax content.  My old Ford would start running rough, getting to the point it would barely run.  I had to pour STP gasoline treatment through the carburetor while running at high RPM to loosen up the sticky valve stems and it would run fine for a period of time.  One day my Dad, a professional mechanic, asked what oil I was using.  Told him and he said to switch oil to another brand as QS had lots of wax and that was causing the problem.  Switched to a different brand, lower wax or no wax content and had no further problems. 

Beware of oils that have high wax content or additives that cause a build up of varnish for all your equipment, sewing machines plus ...

Many years ago I thought I knew it all & was working on a neighbors treadle machine & the more oil I gave it the tighter it got until it wouldn't turn,I took the head out of the cabinet took it to work the next day & told the seasoned mechanic what happened & he broke out in laughter.After what seemed like 5 minutes he told me they've been using 3 in 1 & the new oil caused it to jam from the wax.There were some parts on the machine(underneath) that even had some waxing icicles almost 1/4" hanging off of it.So he told me to take some kerosene & re-oil the main bearings & it should free up,that did the trick & sure made my neighbor happy when I took it back.

[Mulesaw]

The closest from the top of my head would be a hydraulic oil like Castrol AWH32 or something similar with a viscosity of 32 cSt. But I know it isn't exactly what you asked for. 
Another alternative is synthetic lubricant for refrigeration compressors. 

Hanseline produces a fine sewing machine oil, it is made in Germany, and you can get it in 0.2 or 1L bottles (I don't know how much your machine needs).
I have used it for my sewing machines and been very satisfied with the performance. Nadel24.de sells it for 2.98 Euro for a bottle of 0.2 L, I normally buy a bottle or two whenever I stock up on needles for the sewing machines.

Grüsse aus Dänemark
Jonas

[Cumberland Highpower]

He needs to just buy a bottle of 10 spindle oil.  It's cheap and readily available. $40-50 a gallon.  It's all over the net in pints and qts as well.

Many sewing machines call for common spindle oil and it would work just fine on his Pfaff.

Most Pfaff machines are mostly clones or based on Singers, the same machines everyone else copies and recommends 10w spindle oil on.  It's also widely used on textile machinery in general.

Edited 16 hours ago by Cumberland Highpower